AWC Standard Premium & PRIV

[trackside7]

Evening all, I was just wondering if I could get some thoughts/advice from Avanti TMs…

I have a PRIV season ticket to London Euston which means I’m typically traveling down at least 3 days a week, so could be 6 different TMs.

If it isn’t too busy and standard premium is available, I’ll take a seat in coach H, with the view to pay for the upgrade (at full rate) when the TM comes through.

9 times out of 10, the TM sees my PRIV and season ticket and tells me not to worry about it, but I’ve had 2 TMs recently that got a bit funny about it, despite me being happy to pay for the upgrade, and they said I should’ve asked out of courtesy first and then didn’t charge me in the end anyway.

Obviously I’m very grateful for the TMs that do not charge as they don’t need to do this, but should I be asking out of courtesy first (and the TM could be at the opposite end of the train) before sitting in standard premium?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated as I don’t want to cause any upset/issues. Thanks!

 

[crablab]

I’ve had 2 TMs recently that got a bit funny about it, despite me being happy to pay for the upgrade, and they said I should’ve asked out of courtesy first and then didn’t charge me in the end anyway

As per NRCoT 15.2, you should excess your ticket or pay the supplement prior to boarding the train.

As 15.4 says, simply sitting in first class is to be treated as travelling without a valid ticket.

I don't think it being a Priv season changes that, but someone who has access to the internal RDG documentation may like to correct me if so

Obviously I’m very grateful for the TMs that do not charge as they don’t need to do this, but should I be asking out of courtesy first

It's not a courtesy; it's a requirement that you do so, otherwise you leave yourself open to penalty.

This is a recent change to the rules; previously you could 'upgrade when challenged' but it's not hard to see why that was changed.

 

[Sheridan]

The Rail Delivery Group’s Rail Staff Travel says that it is available as an on-board upgrade. (Note that the OP is asking about Standard Premium rather than First Class.) There is no discount on the price of the upgrade but I believe the OP is willing to pay full price for the Standard Premium supplement. So going by this document (https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/images/RST/RST_Restrictions_Summer_2024_v3.pdf) there shouldn’t be a problem.

Edited to add that the rules may perhaps be different when it’s a PRIV Season rather than a regular PRIV ticket.

 

[crablab]

The Rail Delivery Group’s Rail Staff Travel says that it is available as an on-board upgrade.

Thanks for checking

Note that the OP is asking about Standard Premium rather than First Class

Are they treated differently? I suppose there's some ambiguity there; I'd always understood "Standard Premium" to be a marketing name for a type of 1st class, but I suppose it is actually something different.

 

[Bungle965]

As per NRCoT 15.2, you should excess your ticket or pay the supplement prior to boarding the train.

Which pretty much isn’t possible, no ticket office will issue this. It is onboard only.

 

[cool110]

Are they treated differently? I suppose there's some ambiguity there; I'd always understood "Standard Premium" to be a marketing name for a type of 1st class, but I suppose it is actually something different.

It's just redesignated 1st class carriages without any of the complementary food and drink. Upgrading works on the same "take a seat then pay" basis as weekend first, but available all week.

 

[crablab]

Upgrading works on the same "take a seat then pay" basis as weekend first, but available all week.

Is that because its *not* first class, or in spite of it?

Either way, I'm happy to stand corrected. My understanding was from the NRCoT.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

9 times out of 10, the TM sees my PRIV and season ticket and tells me not to worry about it, but I’ve had 2 TMs recently that got a bit funny about it, despite me being happy to pay for the upgrade, and they said I should’ve asked out of courtesy first and then didn’t charge me in the end anyway.

Are you just showing your season and hoping not to be charged or do you ask to pay the supplement when the TM approaches.

If it’s the former then I can understand some TM’s being annoyed.

 

[father_jack]

OP says they are always happy to pay the standard premium upgrade which is only sold onboard.

What this is all about is caused by those staff members who just sit in first (sometimes not even with a standard priv ticket !!!) and then expect to stay there.

 

[cool110]

Is that because its *not* first class, or in spite of it?

Either way, I'm happy to stand corrected. My understanding was from the NRCoT.

It's not first class, but it is an on-board supplement in the style of NRCoT 15.3.

 

[All Line Rover]

What discretion are train managers given by Avanti to "comp" PRIV holders travelling in Standard Premium? Is this a written policy? It seems to contradict the written rail staff travel policy.

 

[AlterEgo]

As per NRCoT 15.2, you should excess your ticket or pay the supplement prior to boarding the train.

Nope, Standard Premium upgrades are sold on board only. Like weekend first.

As 15.4 says, simply sitting in first class is to be treated as travelling without a valid ticket.

OP isn’t in first class.

 

[philthetube]

I used to use my priv and upgrade to weekend first, never had an issue, I always had my credit card out along with my ticket and pass so there was never an issue of looking for favours.

 

[trackside7]

OP says they are always happy to pay the standard premium upgrade which is only sold onboard.

What this is all about is caused by those staff members who just sit in first (sometimes not even with a standard priv ticket !!!) and then expect to stay there.

I wonder if a handful are seeing my PRIV and ignoring the fact that I’ve got a season ticket and assuming I’ve just sat in there - in that case, they’ve got every right to say you should’ve asked out of courtesy first if I ever did that!

 

[transportphoto]

Avanti’s website gives the nod that it’s an onboard upgrade and that it is acceptable to just take a seat:

Upgrade onboard

If you’ve booked a Standard Class ticket but fancy a bit of luxury at the last minute, you can move up to Standard Premium there and then. Just head to the Standard Premium coach when you get on and the Train Manager will upgrade your ticket.

Source: https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/travel-information/onboard/standard-premium

I wonder if a handful are seeing my PRIV and ignoring the fact that I’ve got a season ticket and assuming I’ve just sat in there - in that case, they’ve got every right to say you should’ve asked out of courtesy first if I ever did that!

You may be right here.

What discretion are train managers given by Avanti to "comp" PRIV holders travelling in Standard Premium? Is this a written policy? It seems to contradict the written rail staff travel policy.

A lot. Guards are typically the people afforded the most discretion on the railway.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

A lot. Guards are typically the people afforded the most discretion on the railway.

However, some Guards believe this gives them carte blanche to decide who to charge and who not to charge which simply isn’t true.

I have personal experience of a Conductor being disciplined for allowing staff to travel first class, although on this occasion other indiscretions were involved.

Discretion is there to protect vulnerable people who may otherwise be stranded or who may have issues that prevent them from complying with the accepted norm. It is not supposed to be used to offer ‘mates rates’ to other rail staff.

I travel regularly on standard class facilities and have never asked for special treatment. In the case of Standard Premium, I will have the cash or card ready when asked for my ticket and always offer to pay. If the TM refuses payment I never get into an argument but always feel slightly uncomfortable.

 

[reb0118]

Generally, with on board supplements such as these, the policy is that, ceteris paribus, one just takes a seat and the conductor (or equivalent), will upgrade you when he, or she, passes.

There is no requirement to seek permission or authorisation prior to boarding. However, there is equally no harm in informing the said staff of your intentions beforehand.

 

[All Line Rover]

A lot. Guards are typically the people afforded the most discretion on the railway.

Does that discretion apply equally to comping a colleague's Standard Premium upgrade and comping a group of friends travelling to a game? That would be a wide discretion.

Or is there a distinction? If there is, do you know where it is documented?

 

[transportphoto]

Or is there a distinction? If there is, do you know where it is documented?

I don’t work for Avanti so can’t comment on specifics here, only the generic comment regarding guards typically having the most discretion.

 

[Haywain]

If there is, do you know where it is documented?

Why would it be documented? If it is it's not discretion.