Azuma Rough Riding

[Basher]

On the 6.30 from Darlington in coach k. It's shaking like nobody's business, the coffee cup has waves on it. Is this a common problem with this class?

 

[Bayum]

The ride quality isn’t the best but it’s not usually that bad - inform the train manager. Might be a wheel flat on that coach or something else that needs investigating.

 

[43096]

On the 6.30 from Darlington in coach k. It's shaking like nobody's business, the coffee cup has waves on it. Is this a common problem with this class?

Yes. The ride quality has been appalling from day one. Hunting of the bogies is commonplace on normal track and they lose the plot completely going over points and crossings.

 

[800001]

On the 6.30 from Darlington in coach k. It's shaking like nobody's business, the coffee cup has waves on it. Is this a common problem with this class?

Where were you seated? A continuous shaking? Or shaking om a certain part of the route

 

[GC class B1]

This sound like bogie hunting. I have experienced it several times on LNER class 800. It is unpleasant but not unsafe.

 

[DanNCL]

On the 6.30 from Darlington in coach k. It's shaking like nobody's business, the coffee cup has waves on it. Is this a common problem with this class?

Ride quality is poor, but it shouldn’t be shaking too badly.

I have noticed a loud banging noise coming from the bogies on corners recently, originating on the side of the bogies that’s on the outside of the corner. I’ve observed this on units 801225, 800111 and 800101, in both motors and driving trailers. I didn’t notice this from 800106 on the same line on the same day, therefore it seems unlikely it’s an infrastructure issue.

 

[Basher]

He walk through a few times so he would know. Do not think he was interested lots of people not waring masks either.

 

[Basher]

It was 800111.

 

[fgwrich]

Were you sat in one of the coaches with the lightweight bogies? I find on the Great Western units, those are the worst for bogie hunting and causing the coach itself to shake. An utterly dreadful piece of design!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Were you sat in one of the coaches with the lightweight bogies?

Which carriages on which of the various IET classes are these please?

 

[fgwrich]

Which carriages on which of the various IET classes are these please?

4th and 6th vehicles in the 9 car variants:

 

[greyman42]

On the 6.30 from Darlington in coach k. It's shaking like nobody's business, the coffee cup has waves on it. Is this a common problem with this class?

Were you sat at a table seat or a airline? If you were at a airline then the seat in front shakes about and makes it seem worse. I don't think it was as bad on the Mallards so perhaps the seats were more rigid on them.

 

[GC class B1]

Were you sat at a table seat or a airline? If you were at a airline then the seat in front shakes about and makes it seem worse. I don't think it was as bad on the Mallards so perhaps the seats were more rigid on them.

By Mallards do you mean the Mk4 sets. If so then the reason the seats didn’t shake on these was that they weren’t as prone to bogie hunting as the class 800.

 

[MotCO]

What is 'bogie hunting'?

 

[greyman42]

By Mallards do you mean the Mk4 sets. If so then the reason the seats didn’t shake on these was that they weren’t as prone to bogie hunting as the class 800.

Yes, i meant Mk4 sets, and HST's while were on the subject. So nothing to do with flimsier seats then.

 

[GC class B1]

What is 'bogie hunting'?

Bogie hunting is when the bogie becomes unstable and instead of riding centrally along the rail surface the wheelsets move along the track with alternate wheel flanges contacting the rail and then moving in the opposite direction until the other wheel flanges contact the other rail. This motion continues until the bogie becomes stable again. This causes the vehicle body to shake.

 

[MotCO]

Bogie hunting is when the bogie becomes unstable and instead of riding centrally along the rail surface the wheelsets move along the track with alternate wheel flanges contacting the rail and then moving in the opposite direction until the other wheel flanges contact the other rail. This motion continues until the bogie becomes stable again. This causes the vehicle body to shake.

Thanks. How much vertical tolerance is there before the flanges are no longer guided by the track? Presumably the airlifted flange in 'bogie hunting' is still guided by the track.

 

[londonmidland]

Bogie hunting is when the bogie becomes unstable and instead of riding centrally along the rail surface the wheelsets move along the track with alternate wheel flanges contacting the rail and then moving in the opposite direction until the other wheel flanges contact the other rail. This motion continues until the bogie becomes stable again. This causes the vehicle body to shake.

This sounds like what happens with 222s, with its lightweight bogies. The whole carriage rattles and shakes for a short while before returning back to ‘normal’. It’s most noticeable at high speeds.

 

[GC class B1]

This sounds like what happens with 222s, with its lightweight bogies. The whole carriage rattles and shakes for a short while before returning back to ‘normal’. It’s most noticeable at high speeds.

Yes. Class 220 and 222 hunt at high speed.

Thanks. How much vertical tolerance is there before the flanges are no longer guided by the track? Presumably the airlifted flange in 'bogie hunting' is still guided by the track.

The wheels do not lift under bogie hunting as the contact between the flange and rail returns the wheel in the opposite direction. The flanges are doing the job they were intended to do.

 

[aiden_g1]

He walk through a few times so he would know. Do not think he was interested lots of people not waring masks either.

They don'r have to wear masks.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

4th and 6th vehicles in the 9 car variants:

Thank you; I can see the difference in that easily.

 

[furnessvale]

Shades of the "Midland Pullman" sets, built in the expectation that UK track rode like Swiss track?

Oh dear! This could get expensive for someone!

 

[AlterEgo]

He walk through a few times so he would know. Do not think he was interested lots of people not waring masks either.

As well he shouldn’t be. It’s neither the law nor a requirement of LNER to wear one.

As for the rough ride, I’ve experienced this a couple of times, although not so much my coffee might spill. They ride more poorly than the MK4s in my opinion.

 

[paul1609]

Shades of the "Midland Pullman" sets, built in the expectation that UK track rode like Swiss track?

Oh dear! This could get expensive for someone!

The taxpayer I'd imagine, it's pretty obvious that the high speed sections of both the ECML and GWR aren't maintained to the standards that are specified.

 

[fgwrich]

Thank you; I can see the difference in that easily.

Not a problem. I personally feel that some of the rough riding may well be down to Hitachi’s own design - the 385s are remarkably similar. The traditional outside frame bogies ride ok, the vehicles with the inside frame bogies (the intermediate vehicles on a 385) ride terribly.

 

[Basher]

Where were you seated? A continuous shaking? Or shaking om a certain part of the route

Continuously coach K

Travelled back from Kings Cross late last night in coach L, the ride was poor. These Azumas, in my view are not as good as the HST or the class 91s. Funny a class 91 came into Kings Cross while I was waiting.

 

[VT_Valenta]

Continuously coach K

Travelled back from Kings Cross late last night in coach L, the ride was poor. These Azumas, in my view are not as good as the HST or the class 91s. Funny a class 91 came into Kings Cross while I was waiting.

Maybe an email to LNERs customer services team might be more appropriate with the details of what you experienced, where you sat, what you felt etc (maybe even the unit number) so that they can pass it on to the fitters?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not a problem. I personally feel that some of the rough riding may well be down to Hitachi’s own design - the 385s are remarkably similar. The traditional outside frame bogies ride ok, the vehicles with the inside frame bogies (the intermediate vehicles on a 385) ride terribly.

Guess which carriage(s) I'm going to aiming at to sit in from now on...?

 

[greyman42]

Maybe an email to LNERs customer services team might be more appropriate with the details of what you experienced, where you sat, what you felt etc (maybe even the unit number) so that they can pass it on to the fitters?

Or just delete it.

The wheels do not lift under bogie hunting as the contact between the flange and rail returns the wheel in the opposite direction. The flanges are doing the job they were intended to do.

Does this cause extra wear and tear?

 

[GC class B1]

Or just delete it.


Does this cause extra wear and tear?

Yes