Bangor to Caernarfon Bus ticket acceptance

[colinz]

I just got this Bangor to Caernarfon bus ticket but now that I have arrived at Bangor, I am not sure whether this ticket allows me to travel on either the Arriva 5C service or the Lloyds Coaches T2 service.
TfW rail’s customer service were not helpful and there is no staff at Bangor station to ask. I was wondering if this forum would kindly help.
Thanks

 

[mangyiscute]

I'm gonna say I reckon its arriva (to be clear I have no idea), but the bus driver will most likely not recognize the ticket but should accept it on either service since it clearly states its a bus ticket for travel from Bangor to Caernarfon and they are a bus from Bangor to Caernarfon so most drivers would accept it.

 

[colinz]

Interestingly drivers from both companies considered it for coincidentally 10 seconds and decided not to accept it.

Had to buy a single in the end which cost another £4.20. May have to buy another £4.20 single when returning next week.

If I want to complain about this, does anyone know where this should go to?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Who sold the ticket?

Surprised it wasn't accepted on Arriva buses.

 

[colinz]

Who sold the ticket?

It was sold by the guard on board a GWR train using his hand-held device. There was no timetable query thus could not determine which bus is allowed.

 

[Bungle965]

The operator in question that should have allowed you travel is Arriva, I recommend contacting Transport For Wales as they are the ones who "own" and set the ticket and ask for the bus fare to be reimbursed and a reminder sent to Arriva as to their participation in this.

 

[NIT100]

Where have you found out that it is valid on arriva buses?

I can find no information at all about it online except that it has a fare on BR fares?

 

[mangyiscute]

Most of the time when I have a fairly obscure ticket the drivers tend to accept it to aviod any hassle I assume, guess you weren't as lucky as me

 

[Bungle965]

Where have you found out that it is valid on arriva buses?

I can find no information at all about it online except that it has a fare on BR fares?

It's on the Internal National Rail website, it is quite possible that this is a very old fare and when it was introduced it had some publicity around it, however since then it has faded away and there is very little knowledge on it however the fare remains.

 

[NIT100]

Ininteresting.

It is probably a hangover from when Arriva ran the Wales & Borders TOC, but now made even more complicated by TfW introducing multi-mode ticket acceptance on some Traws Cymru services, but not on the T2

 

[Llandudno]

It doesn’t surprise me that the bus driver didn’t accept your ticket.

There are a number of largely secretive bus and rail day ranger tickets in north Wales, which are actually quite good value for money, which many rail and bus operators staff have virtually no knowledge of validity, or in some cases no idea how to actually issue a ticket…!

 

[colinz]

Just to update this. On my way from Caernarfon back to Bangor today, the inbound portion ticket was smoothly accepted by the Arriva 5C driver.
I will complain to TfW and Arriva about the ticket rejection in the outbound journey following the advice from @Bungle965 and see how it goes.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does sometimes seem to be the case that bus drivers will arbitrarily reject valid tickets when they're issued on railway ticket stock.

@colinz. Good luck! Please be sure to let us know how you get on.

 

[L401CJF]

Does sometimes seem to be the case that bus drivers will arbitrarily reject valid tickets when they're issued on railway ticket stock.

@colinz. Good luck! Please be sure to let us know how you get on.

This is common on Merseyside too. Merseytravel all mode Saveaway passes can be issued on rail tickets (both card and bog roll) and are valid on bus/train/ferry within Merseyside. Countless times they've been rejected by drivers. You tell them to read it (Mtrav Saveaway All Areas) and just get told to pay or get off.

A mate of mine was with me, and got denied travel on a Stagecoach bus and told to pay! Even when I presented my Arriva staff pass, explained I was a driver and that it is valid, (and the driver was a former colleague of mine and still wasnt having any of it) was told I was wrong! After a bit of an argument and my mate offering to pay, I refused to let him pay out of principal and he eventually let us on. When I took the ticket to Merseytravel center to prove a point at the bus station the woman behind the counter said "yes it is valid, just tell the driver to actually read the ticket"!!

As a former bus driver I can confirm that training, particularly relating to ticketing, is poor to non existent. Stagecoach Merseyside actually train their drivers incorrectly regarding rail issue Saveaways.

When I worked at Stagecoach they had notices up stating if it said "Rail Ranger/Rover" printed at the bottom (as the saveaway does because that's just how they come) then they are rail only and not valid on buses. This is most certainly incorrect! I raised this with the management who said I was wrong, and contacted Merseytravel who said I was right and it would be sorted, but never was.

 

[colinz]

An update: TfW has just replied to my original complaint after 15 working days. They refused to deal with the issue and referred me to Arriva bus.

Dear Colin,
Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning your journey between Bangor and Caernarfon on 28th October. Firstly, I am sorry that my reply to you is not as prompt as we usually endeavour. We are working hard to ensure that all of our customers receive a response to their complaint as quickly as possible however I apologise for any further disappointment this may have caused you.

I am sorry to learn that your ticket was not accepted on the bus and apologise for the inconvenience this caused you. However, unfortunately, I am unable to assist you with your request for a refund. As the incorrect ticket was issued by Arriva Bus, you will need to contact them directly by visiting www.arrivabus.co.uk/contact-us

I apologise again for the circumstances which prompted you to contact us and I hope the above information will be of use to you.

I am filing another complain to Arriva bus and will update when they reply.


—————————————
I received this following email from Arriva Bus today. They completely denied the acceptance of the aforementioned ticket. They further claimed that the ticket was a “misprinted” “train ticket”.

I wonder if anyone could suggest how I can argue my point, before escalating this to the ombudsman? As someone mentioned before, the information regarding this ticket is held in an internal database.

Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately the driver is correct, the train ticket is not valid and appears to be misprinted as it should say caernafon bus station.

Kind Regards
XXX XXX
Customer Service Advisor
Arriva UK Bus
Arriva
487 Dunstable Road
Luton
Beds
LU4 8DS
www.arrivabus.co.uk

 

[Watershed]

I received this following email from Arriva Bus today. They completely denied the acceptance of the aforementioned ticket. They further claimed that the ticket was a “misprinted” “train ticket”.

I wonder if anyone could suggest how I can argue my point, before escalating this to the ombudsman? As someone mentioned before, the information regarding this ticket is held in an internal database.

Oh dear. Clearly it needs to be escalated up the chain of command, as the person dealing with your complaint doesn't know what they're talking about.

It appears that complaints against bus companies can be escalated to Bus Users, though it's not obvious to me that the bus company is bound to enter into Alternative Dispute Resolution using this scheme, or that they would be bound to accept any decision made.

Of course the next step after that, to reclaim what you're owed, would be to take legal action. But you might well decide that the cost and time taken to do so doesn't justify the amount (and so may a Judge dealing with your case!).

 

[185143]

Oh dear. Clearly it needs to be escalated up the chain of command, as the person dealing with your complaint doesn't know what they're talking about.

It appears that complaints against bus companies can be escalated to Bus Users England, though it's not obvious to me that the bus company is bound to enter into Alternative Dispute Resolution using this scheme, or that they would be bound to accept any decision made.

Of course the next step after that, to reclaim what you're owed, would be to take legal action. But you might well decide that the cost and time taken to do so doesn't justify the amount (and so may a Judge dealing with your case!).

Are they the correct organisation for a journey in Wales?

 

[Runningaround]

Why wasn't a QR code printed on your bog roll ticket? With so many tickets with regional and national tickets it's nigh on impossible for the driver to know them all, so it's up to whoever sets up the machines to program them accept or not, most drivers will accept a ticket they haven't a clue about.

 

[mikeg]

Are they the correct organisation for a journey in Wales?

AFAIK it's actually Bus Users UK and covers journeys with the exception of London and Northern Ireland.

 

[Watershed]

AFAIK it's actually Bus Users UK and covers journeys with the exception of London and Northern Ireland.

My apologies. But yes, it's still Bus Users.

 

[185143]

AFAIK it's actually Bus Users UK and covers journeys with the exception of London and Northern Ireland.

Fair enough then..

Just thought I'd best point it out to avoid any further hoops to have to jump through.

 

[colinz]

Why wasn't a QR code printed on your bog roll ticket? With so many tickets with regional and national tickets it's nigh on impossible for the driver to know them all, so it's up to whoever sets up the machines to program them accept or not, most drivers will accept a ticket they haven't a clue about.

There is indeed a 2D barcode printed on my bog roll ticket, however it is an Aztec code commonly used in the rail sector, while the ticket reader on the bus mostly handles just QR codes. A very similar issue has recently being discussed in more detail elsewhere in this forum: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/plusbus-tickets.239020

 

[colinz]

The rest of the story is below, just to end this thread.
27 Nov: I sent my reply to Arriva requesting the case be escalated.
2 Dec: Arriva replied, admitting the error made before and promised further investigation into why the driver refused the ticket in the first place. However, they did not mention any compensation.
3 Dec: I replied to request the refund of the extra ticket.
22 Dec: I sent another email to chase the case
23 Dec: Arriva Bus refunded the extra £4.20 bus ticket purchased onboard.

Overall, it took 8 weeks for TfW and Arriva to resolve the case.

 

[WAB]

Disappointing but not surprising - no wonder buses are seen as bandit-land by so many rail users, when they really should be complementary.