BBC Trainspotting Live

[fowler9]

It was a silly thing to tweet in, but do you really think Joe Public will know or care about why 390s won't appear at Wick?

Yeah that is true but there is no need for it. There is a chance the press will get hold of it and make us look cretinous. I thought the program was a bit frantic but I was glad it was made. The last one was very good apart from the comedian with the 390.

 

[WideRanger]

I looked forward to this programme but was so disappointed by the inept presentation.
One would expect presenters to have a fair idea of the correct terminology at least. Peter Snow may have been a train enthusiast since the age of 1 but he still can't tell the difference between a TRAIN and a LOCOMOTIVE, and couldn't recognise the difference the K1 and Black 5 on the West Highland line. (Rather like the people who say every rear platform double decker is a Routemaster!). And, despite it being explained earlier on the programme, still confused HST with Class 43!

I could understand a bit of excitement about unusual spotting of Class 66s, but why were they so surprised and excited at seeing HSTs at Swindon and Newport?

I guess the majority of non-railway nuts watching the programme would have been confirmed in their preconceived views that Train spotters are not quite right in the head! A pity that a good opportunity to inform the public about railways was lost by the 'dumbing down' by the participants.

I'm not sure the programme was aimed at train enthusiasts (apart from giving us a warm glow that the BBC cares about us). And I don't think its purpose was to inform the public about railways. Which is probably a good thing because the programme makers might have decided that the most important thing for people to understand about railways would be how they interact with the economy, facilitate development and impact on culture, and other BBC4-type subjects.

It seemed to me that the programme makers were trying to capture, and perhaps share, some of the passion of train enthusiasts, and by doing so reduce some of the stigma around train enthusiasts, and hopefully provide a little entertainment. A bit like Jon Snow's old role in election broadcasts.

It was a mess, and I suspect there wasn't the focus on what they were trying to achieve. I found it pretty boring. But to hope that it would be accurate on what are pretty obscure details outside the enthusiast community, is probably a little unfair. Especially since, even within the community there is no shortage of dispute, which suggests there are significant numbers of enthusiasts that have gaps in their knowledge, sometimes without realising it.

 

[Railman10]

People saying that Snow should retire should have a bit of perspective and get over it. He wasn't that bad.

This 70 year old thinks he was!

 

[Traveloguer]

If Plum Pictures and the Beeb can learn from all this - and I hope they're reading this forum - then maybe they should take a look at Commuting for the next Live-style show? That's the subject that prompted them to contact me a few weeks ago (I wrote a "fun" book for London commuters) and they sort of thought of inviting me on to this show until I said I was more interested in the psychology of rail enthusiasm etc. They didn't want to dig too deep I think. Which is usually the way with these things. But they weren't out to satirise anoraks or anything similar.

But the Southern Rail debacle and the astonishing cost of using Western Europe's worst managed, slowest, most old-fashioned rail network could feed into a big show on commuting - with a social/political edge. The "commuter" is an unsung hero of the British economy and probably deserves his/her moment in the spotlight. There'd certainly be a lot more "action" at 7-9am and 5-7pm, at the major terminals and hubs.

But T Live was ok - just ok, experimental TV. If it's not one Snow on telly, it's another…. or Fogle!

Good comments though. Fascinating forum.
All the best,
Chris Moss
author, Smoothly From Harrow

 

[43074]

But the Southern Rail debacle and the astonishing cost of using Western Europe's worst managed, slowest, most old-fashioned rail network could feed into a big show on commuting - with a social/political edge. The "commuter" is an unsung hero of the British economy and probably deserves his/her moment in the spotlight. There'd certainly be a lot more "action" at 7-9am and 5-7pm, at the major terminals and hubs.

You'd have to be careful I think, that could work but I think it would be important to have a railway operating edge as well, to show & tell how and why things don't always go to plan - e.g. they might go behind the scenes at a control centre at a time of disruption to see the people making the decisions etc. Otherwise such a programme could quite easily be on a par with some of the gutter journalism often found on the web about the issue, an 'investigative' slant could produce some quite good viewing.

If a programme were to be made exclusively about the Southern Rail debacle it should surely be an episode of BBC Panorama, given its long running nature I think it would lend itself quite well to that.

 

[route101]

In the 2nd programme a viewer tweeted to say they have seen a HST in Carlisle , the expert looked surprised but never said anything . What HST if there was one was in Carlisle on Tuesday night?

 

[Stampy]

Son Dan Snow would be a good choice of presenter for a second batch of programmes. Plenty of live TV experience, somewhat more articulate than his elderly dad, and partly responsible for the excellent BBC4 Locomotion series broadcast a few months ago.

Why not have BOTH...

Dan Snow could cover Modern traction, and Dad could cover old locos - Steam etc.....

 

[Cowley]

Dan Snow's railway programmes were excellent I thought. He would make a good presenter for this if it was ever tried again, also somebody like Mark Williams, basically somebody with a bit of knowledge as well as enthusiasm.

It's always good to see railways on mainstream TV, although this was pretty uncomfortable, I started watching it with my wife, who's a bit partial to railways now and again, but within ten minutes I thought maybe this is one to watch on my own.
You can only do something like this if you have people with a proper interest and more importantly good knowledge involved and making the decisions. There's plenty of people out there that are famous and who the public like that could've done a better job. I've nothing against Peter Snow and I applaud the BBC for attempting the experiment but unfortunately it just didn't quite work.
I hope the flak the BBC has taken doesn't put them off making railway programmes because they've made some brilliant stuff over the years. In fact when you stop and think about it they've made most of the good ones that have been on TV.

 

[6Gman]

Oh come on, aren't you being just a little bit pedantic?

It would be like a sports presenter pronouncing Dundee United's home ground to rhyme with Eurydice.

Which - allegedly - once happened.

 

[KingDaveRa]

I enjoyed it.

It was something different, and whilst a little rough around the edges, I was still eager to watch it each night.

If they bring it back, I'd suggest not using Peter Snow. I like him, but he wasn't a good fit. I'm sure there's plenty of turns on the BBC's books who can do live TV, and have an interest in trains, OR, can play the stooge and look interested.

Trouble is, there's a fine line to tread - to not have somebody who knows the subject upside down and back to front, but could bore the audience to tears, but to also not have somebody who is too over-enthusiastic or seems patronising to the audience.

But yeah. I liked it.

 

[Robertj21a]

Terrible, all 3 programmes. Made me cringe after about 10 mins each night. It wasn't anything really worthwhile to anybody, not helped at all by the silly programme name that just played to all the 'anorak' jokes.

 

[SodTheDrummer]

The standard BBC4 should be aiming for is the pair of BR documentaries that Channel 4's 'Equinox' program produced in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

'Running to Time' which charts the development of the Class 91 'Electra' locomotive is just sublime (and by god does it give plenty of juicy material to discuss in the British Rail thread running in this sub-forum).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvsIYaRmRAM

'Trouble on the Line' is another, a more general program about British Rail crumbling and about to collapse. Roger Ford takes a starring role, as do a couple of other experts - Richard Hope and Mike Smith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJfaKKVS5Hc

I know such documentaries are now deeply unfashionable, but these were documentaries which everybody from school kids through to BR drivers, guards and managers learned from.

Superb documentaries, thanks for sharing. Would love to see more of this kind of thing on TV, maybe about significant projects such as the Ordsall Chord, NW electrification (including problematic bridges, sorry Mr Locke! ) etc - they did a series about the motorways, why not the railway?

 

[Condor7]

In the 2nd programme a viewer tweeted to say they have seen a HST in Carlisle , the expert looked surprised but never said anything . What HST if there was one was in Carlisle on Tuesday night?

I was at Carlisle station that evening and there was no HST as far as I was aware that evening, however there was one a few evenings previously having been diverted across the Tyne Valley line following a blockage on the ECML.

I recorded the program and picked up on the same comment when I watched it back, however whoever sent the comment in only said they had seen an HST at Carlisle we just assumed they meant that evening but it could have been referring to a previous evening.

Also the program was designed to encourage new fans to the hobby so it could just as easily been someone who mixed up a Voyager (which did come through that evening) or even a Pendolino.

Despite its faults I think it was an excellent program hopefully injecting some badly needed new blood into the hobby.

 

[Calthrop]

Fascinating that a broad gauge would actually be better. I always assumed what became the standard gauge had been settled on as it was the best out of all the tried and tested gauges. Rather disappointing that it is actually a lame duck chosen because it would be too uneconomic to choose a better one.

I think the main reason - not sure how well it came across - was simply that by the time the broad gauge was introduced by Brunel it was in the minority, so when a nationwide standard had to be decided upon the 4' 8'' gauge won out because there was so much more of it already in place.

In practice, it would have prevented many of the lines that we have today being built. The grand scale that Brunel built the GWR to would not have seen the light of day on many of the nations schemes. The not infrequent need to fit alignments into cities, around various objects (including rivers) and past hills to avoid gradients would have rendered many planned lines stillborn when it came to profitability. In reality, stability hasn't been a problem with SG even with speeds topping 200mph so the broad gauge is technically better argument is fallacious.

Going back a couple of days and pages, to this discussion: I’ve seen the view as per "my bolding, above", expressed at other times and places. This sometimes included the speculation that an “upside” of the 7ft. gauge being adopted as Britain’s standard, would have been that many branch and lesser lines which were built and opened in “history as it truly happened” – and proved unremunerative and, once road motor transport took off, of little use, and were closed down after relatively short lives – would never have come to be in the first place: because of rough marginal terrain, and the 7ft. gauge, not suiting each other.

I question the accuracy in the first place, of this notion – in my understanding, some relatively remote and sinuous branches were originally built on 7ft. gauge in “real history”. More pertinently – human behaviour is renownedly impulsive, rather than sensible / restrained / well-thought-out / foresighted / particularly rational. I’d be willing to bet that if Britain’s main-line rail system had come to be on the 7ft. gauge: a very large number of narrower-gauge feeder “short lines” would have been inaugurated; and / or “secondary main lines”, interconnected at least to some extent, would have grown up – of a narrower gauge than 7ft. – in areas too rugged to be hospitable in the most general sense, to the 7ft. gauge. Situations analogous to the former, came about in some countries of continental Europe, sometimes vis-à-vis the 4-eight-and-a-half-inch gauge (with many of the feeder lines having a lifespan of only a very few decades); and analogous to the latter, in various areas of the world – e..g. British India as was, and parts of South America.

 

[enrag2000]

In the 2nd programme a viewer tweeted to say they have seen a HST in Carlisle , the expert looked surprised but never said anything . What HST if there was one was in Carlisle on Tuesday night?

The HST was probably covering for the 390 which had been diverted to Wick!

 

[Cumberlandkev]

Terrible, all 3 programmes. Made me cringe after about 10 mins each night. It wasn't anything really worthwhile to anybody, not helped at all by the silly programme name that just played to all the 'anorak' jokes.

My thoughts and experience exactly. Not often I have to hit the off button but this was one of them.

 

[richieb1971]

Getting Joe public involved in the live part was the most hazardous decision of the show and it proved to be.

Going live to stations where nothing was happening was rather always disappointing.

Getting excited about common trains is equally disappointing if your someone like me.


But its a train show, we don't get many.

 

[Juniper Driver]

My thoughts and experience exactly. Not often I have to hit the off button but this was one of them.

I lasted 25 minutes.

 

[LeylandLen]

Clearly not a series of 3 programs on low budget BBC4 for those of you who think THEY know all about trains. No doubt you would rather have more programs on cookery ! Maybe more sport ...a look back on the referendum ?
Whilst I respect your opinions ,WE did get 3 hours of precious BBC airtime.I got the impression they were aimed at the newcomers to this 'hobby' or interest of ours.At least its something ; maybe they will take in all comments and maybe evolve a better series of programs. Yes , I wasn't too impressed with a live broadcast after 8pm from stations where not a lot was happening. I would have liked to have seen more of the Didcot rail centre. Peter Snow has his faults, at least Ant and Dec were not involved ! Are there no TV journalists at OUR BBC with a railways background? How about getting Pete Waterman involved..
Anyway lets hope for more programs about railways pref on BBC2 ?

 

[Andrewlong]

That sounds good. Are they recreating a year of working on the railways? I've not seen all the farm programs but everyone I saw was quality and fascinating. They really brought the time period alive.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

I don't think it will be a year in the railways - perhaps a visit to a different heritage railway and talking about economic/social impacts.

 

[D1009]

Getting Joe public involved in the live part was the most hazardous decision of the show and it proved to be.

Going live to stations where nothing was happening was rather always disappointing.

Getting excited about common trains is equally disappointing if your someone like me.


But its a train show, we don't get many.

The choice of title proves to me they were totally aware of that but they were still prepared to take the risk. is it such a bad thing there were a few mistakes, no-one got hurt as a result.

 

[yorksrob]

There was a series at the start of the noughties on one of the cable channels that was quite good. It was sort of a magazine programme with mainly modern but a little bit of historical stuff.

It was presented by two blokes and managed to be accessible yet still interesting and informative. They could do with bringing that back.

 

[Master29]

Anything on mainstream media will always cater to Jo public rather than the enthusiast or the people who work within the industry. You`ve only got to look at similar things where hobbies are a minority. Aircraft spotting is similar.
Much like airshows and depot open days cater to the masses rather than the genuinely interested.

 

[plcd1]

Well I've read through the 22 pages of posts and have to side with those who thought it was awful / poor. I couldn't last more than a few minutes as the "over the top" presentation style was too much. Nothing wrong with seeing trains moving about nor the feature on the young lady into steam preservation. I accept I may have missed better bits but if the presenters drive you nuts you aren't going to stay.

There are shedloads of things that the programme could have covered to help people see behind the scenes *and* show trains doing the job they're there for. Plenty of large scale engineering projects underway - GWML electrification, getting the 700s and 800s into service, fitting out the new ticket hall at London Bridge, electrification works on the GOBLIN. Even 5-7 min clips showing the activity with some expert commentary would help people understand what's being done and why. I also agree that showing how the commuter railway (whether in London or not) works and the pressures behind the scenes would be a good feature.

Given the quality of other railway shows and items on Timeshift that turn up on BBC4 it was a shame that the presenting style just turned me off completely. If they've got money to spend on transport programming then "behind the scenes" stuff on the railway, the tube, a tram system, a bus company and a ferry business would give a lovely cross section. Airports and airlines get more than their fair share - the recent "City in the Sky" was pretty good. The whole thing about managing assets and people and combining them to deliver transport is a fascinating topic with loads of scope for good programming.

 

[Darandio]

There was a series at the start of the noughties on one of the cable channels that was quite good. It was sort of a magazine programme with mainly modern but a little bit of historical stuff.

It was presented by two blokes and managed to be accessible yet still interesting and informative. They could do with bringing that back.

Trainspotting?

This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIF-2d3rU7U&list=PL8a799Sz_DYT8NRVibyorJDGowlYdizfC

 

[yorksrob]

Trainspotting?

This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIF-2d3rU7U&list=PL8a799Sz_DYT8NRVibyorJDGowlYdizfC

That's the one.

Another series is long overdue.

(at least that's my viewing sorted if there isn't anything on the box).

 

[Butts]

Agree with the earlier posts about Dan being better than his Dad at this sort of gig. As mentioned he hosted the one from India a while back.

Although they worked well together on the Battlefields Program a few years back, that was not live. Perhaps Peter should have been let loose on the signals as they are more akin to his swingometers etc from Election Nights in years gone by.

Hannah Fry - would be interesting to find out if she has a matching set of duvet and pillow covers.

 

[route101]

Best moment was when someone tweeted there was a 390 in Wick , the expert want to say something but didnt !

 

[Harbornite]

Hannah Fry - would be interesting to find out if she has a matching set of duvet and pillow covers.

Hmmmm, I'm trying to figure this one out...?

 

[Butts]

Hmmmm, I'm trying to figure this one out...?

So am I