Begging getting worse on trains?

[southern442]

Has anyone else noticed in the past year or so, the numbers of beggars on trains seem to have increased, at least in the London area?

I have encountered someone at least the last 2 or 3 times travelling on London Overground, and notably a few times recently on Southern and Thameslink services, where it had been a good few years since I have seen even one person doing this?

I could imagine this is for a variety of reasons, possibly something to do with the cost of living crisis, but whatever strategy the BTP/DfT/TfL have, it doesn't seem to be working anymore...

(as always, hopefully we can all be civil/considerate on what could be a fairly sensitive topic)

 

[ainsworth74]

Not just on trains, we seem to have picked up a fella at Middlesbrough who keeps trying to claim that he's "a few pound short" for a fare to Northallerton and so "would you be able to help me out as they won't let me on without a ticket". I can't recall ever having a beggar on Middlesbrough station let alone the same one keep coming back. I've mentioned it to BTP and staff on the station when I see him but he keeps coming back. Sometimes with a week or two between appearances. I presume because conductors around here are quite proactive at getting up and down the train checking tickets that beggars don't try it on trains very often as a) they'll end up being charged for a ticket and b) the conductor will probably tell them to get* off at the next station if they don't pack it in.

*Some conductors around here might substitute "get" for a four letter word beginning with "f" and ending in "k" potentially

 

[brad465]

The rise of rolling stock with a continuous walkway, especially on the Underground, has I suspect helped, although the deep level tube stock restricted gangway didn't stop at least one beggar using it illegally. But they obviously haven't heard of the golden rule of the London Underground, you're not supposed to talk to anyone!

 

[southern442]

The rise of rolling stock with a continuous walkway, especially on the Underground, has I suspect helped, although the deep level tube stock restricted gangway didn't stop at least one beggar using it illegally. But they obviously haven't heard of the golden rule of the London Underground, you're not supposed to talk to anyone!

Yeah, all the beggars I have seen on the tube will always walk between carriages, usually whilst the train is in motion!

 

[DarloRich]

Not just on trains, we seem to have picked up a fella at Middlesbrough who keeps trying to claim that he's "a few pound short" for a fare to Northallerton and so "would you be able to help me out as they won't let me on without a ticket". I can't recall ever having a beggar on Middlesbrough station let alone the same one keep coming back. I've mentioned it to BTP and staff on the station when I see him but he keeps coming back. Sometimes with a week or two between appearances. I presume because conductors around here are quite proactive at getting up and down the train checking tickets that beggars don't try it on trains very often as a) they'll end up being charged for a ticket and b) the conductor will probably tell them to get* off at the next station if they don't pack it in.

*Some conductors around here might substitute "get" for a four letter word beginning with "f" and ending in "k" potentially

If you are begging in Middlesbrough you must be really down on your luck!

There has been an increase in begging generally. We have a number of people outside Milton Keynes station. Oddly they aren't there at 6 am on a Saturday...........

( I suspect the increase is driven by public sector cuts, lack of mental health/addiction services, cost of living and the general hard times that all of us are closer to than we might like to admit. There are only so many "shocks" a person can endure before they fall off the world. )

 

[Ivor]

Happened this morning on the London Overground from Clapham Junction.

It’s been happening past six months or so on Southern East Croydon to Victoria.

 

[Turtle]

Happened this morning on the London Overground from Clapham Junction.

It’s been happening past six months or so on Southern East Croydon to Victoria.

Last six months!
I'd say it became noticeable about the late nineties onward at London Victoria and on the Brighton line. Stopped using it after about 2012 so I can't comment further.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not just on trains, we seem to have picked up a fella at Middlesbrough who keeps trying to claim that he's "a few pound short" for a fare to Northallerton and so "would you be able to help me out as they won't let me on without a ticket". I can't recall ever having a beggar on Middlesbrough station let alone the same one keep coming back. I've mentioned it to BTP and staff on the station when I see him but he keeps coming back. Sometimes with a week or two between appearances. I presume because conductors around here are quite proactive at getting up and down the train checking tickets that beggars don't try it on trains very often as a) they'll end up being charged for a ticket and b) the conductor will probably tell them to get* off at the next station if they don't pack it in.

*Some conductors around here might substitute "get" for a four letter word beginning with "f" and ending in "k" potentially

Middlesbrough is the only place where I have seen children begging "penny for the guy" - probably 10-15 years ago. It's a real charva place!

 

[baz962]

I used to use Thameslink and overground most days and would see beggars/ tissue sellers most days.

 

[StoneRoad]

Oh, and If you see a beggar, don't touch your phone [was wallet, but let's update the advice] to check if it's still in your pocket.
That just tells the sticky-fingered so-and-so where to dip.

 

[superkopite]

If you are begging in Middlesbrough you must be really down on your luck!

What a thing to say

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Tissue "sellers" at Gerrards Cross has to be a first.........

 

[southern442]

Tissue "sellers" at Gerrards Cross has to be a first.........

They have been around on Southern/Thameslink for years as others have pointed out, but they seem to have spread, whereas on the aforementioned routes the methods have gotten more widespread lately

 

[Purple Train]

But they obviously haven't heard of the golden rule of the London Underground, you're not supposed to talk to anyone!

The only one I remember (on the EL) got around this by using a piece of paper.

 

[Robert Ambler]

According to the Governments own statistics 21% of the UK population now live in poverty. That is probably why we are seeing a rise in begging on trains and elsewhere.

 

[dk1]

That tissue on the seat & sad note tosh often with some partially poor spelling has been going on for many years on some suburban routes. Who actually engages or gives to them??

 

[ainsworth74]

Middlesbrough is the only place where I have seen children begging "penny for the guy" - probably 10-15 years ago. It's a real charva place!

Still happens! I was accosted by a group of "lovely" lads (probably aged around 10 - 15) outside a Tesco in about 2019 asking for "penny for the guy"

 

[Mag_seven]

I noticed that the central section of the Lizzy line is particularly bad for this.

 

[TomG]

Yeah, all the beggars I have seen on the tube will always walk between carriages, usually whilst the train is in motion!

The few I have seen on the Deep Tube change carriages between stops and don't use a gangway.

 

[renegademaster]

The beggars were always a problem on thameslink when I used to take it 2019 -21

Underground had them too , overground north of the river you got often those roma with accordions

 

[TomG]

Has anyone else noticed in the past year or so, the numbers of beggars on trains seem to have increased, at least in the London area?

I have encountered someone at least the last 2 or 3 times travelling on London Overground, and notably a few times recently on Southern and Thameslink services, where it had been a good few years since I have seen even one person doing this?

I could imagine this is for a variety of reasons, possibly something to do with the cost of living crisis, but whatever strategy the BTP/DfT/TfL have, it doesn't seem to be working anymore...

(as always, hopefully we can all be civil/considerate on what could be a fairly sensitive topic)

I have noticed this. I had one approach me directly when I came out of Victoria this morning. I just ignored him and went straight past.

The most amusing one I have seen was recently when someone was going 'Does anyone have a bit of cash to spare, anyone, please...I am not begging' at which point I thought 'well what are you doing then?'

Someone I used to work with lived in the area and knew all the tricks the beggars got up to, to try and get money. One woman had sewn a fake stomach on to make her look pregnant.

When I worked in Surrey Quays when I was getting the train to Whitechapel I noticed that you'd tend to get someone begging between certain stops. Presumably working in a group.

 

[richa2002]

According to the Governments own statistics 21% of the UK population now live in poverty. That is probably why we are seeing a rise in begging on trains and elsewhere.

Something tells me these individuals don't appear in official government statistics...

 

[southern442]

Something tells me these individuals don't appear in official government statistics...

It's quite possible that as more people enter the poverty statistics, that means likewise a bigger proportion are 'dropping off the radar' so to speak.

 

[brad465]

The only one I remember (on the EL) got around this by using a piece of paper.

As someone with autism the presence of vocal beggars makes me feel uncomfortable in their presence, I usually put my head down and either use headphones or cover my ears to cope. The silent beggars like the one you refer to, or the tissue sellers, while not ones I'll support, at least are tolerable for that reason.

I do wish in many ways that a coherent policy to actually end homelessness was prioritised and adopted, not just for moral sake, but it would mean that anyone who was trying begging in public places would more clearly be conmen/women, rather than trying to work out if they are legitimately homeless or not. But that's another story.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Still happens! I was accosted by a group of "lovely" lads (probably aged around 10-15) outside a Tesco in about 2019 asking for "penny for the guy"

I've not seen a 'penny for the guy' for many, many years, outside a railway station or anywhere else. Too busy doing the 'treat or treat', I guess. (I also haven't seen for ages the traditional tins on strings and 'just married' on newly-weds' motors, but I guess that's for an 'Other Transport' thread.)

I've not encountered anyone begging on trains up to or down from London for some time. Having written that, I bet I get accosted on my next trip to London.

Overground north of the river you got often those Roma with accordions.

I remember a kid on the Circle Line who'd jump as the doors closed and start to play an accordion; he was quite proficient, and, unlike most modern buskers, didn't use a backing track.

 

[jon0844]

It's been a while since I've seen the tissue beggars (almost all organised crime, possibly using trafficked individuals), but I have had many more individuals going through the train with a story about needing money for a hostel or similar.

They'll keep doing it because people will give them money. And not always coins/change. There's often someone that gives a note. As such, it seems like it must be quite profitable and will certainly encourage you to do it more.

 

[DarloRich]

Middlesbrough is the only place where I have seen children begging "penny for the guy" - probably 10-15 years ago. It's a real charva place!

Still happens! I was accosted by a group of "lovely" lads (probably aged around 10 - 15) outside a Tesco in about 2019 asking for "penny for the guy"

Did they have a guy with them or was it just low level demanding money with menaces?

What a thing to say

I am from the north east, have lived in Middlesbrough and have family there and in east Cleveland. The people in Middlesbrough are good people with a strong sense of community in many areas but they don't have much spare money to give away even if they do try to look after their own. Times are often hard in the north east but many places are really struggling at the moment.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Not just on trains, we seem to have picked up a fella at Middlesbrough who keeps trying to claim that he's "a few pound short" for a fare to Northallerton and so "would you be able to help me out as they won't let me on without a ticket". I can't recall ever having a beggar on Middlesbrough station let alone the same one keep coming back. I've mentioned it to BTP and staff on the station when I see him but he keeps coming back. Sometimes with a week or two between appearances. I presume because conductors around here are quite proactive at getting up and down the train checking tickets that beggars don't try it on trains very often as a) they'll end up being charged for a ticket and b) the conductor will probably tell them to get* off at the next station if they don't pack it in.

*Some conductors around here might substitute "get" for a four letter word beginning with "f" and ending in "k" potentially

Interestingly on a couple of occasions when I worked in London I was approached on stations by young women who were 'stranded' and needed 'money towards the fare home'. 'Even better', I told them, 'I'll buy you a ticket - follow me to the booking office'. They always disappeared on the way, so at least I couldn't feel guilty about possibly leaving someone in danger.

 

[modernrail]

I would say the number of beggars on London trains has gone up massively since the pandemic.

It now happens on almost every train I get on, not just underground. I have considered whether there might be a new drug on the block as some seem to be in quite a desperate state and the same is true on the streets as well.

However, this if clearly also driven by pure poverty. A chap on a SE service last week was specifically begging for food and made it very clear he only wanted food, not money. He looked desperately ashamed yet managed to ask with a lot of dignity in the circumstances and quite frankly it broke my heart.

I absolutely hate this Government. They have had their eye off the ball on their stupid vanity projects (Brexit) and their constant infighting and hatred of each other that have done absolutely nothing for the country. Nothing. Now a lot of people are seriously in the **** for one reason or another and their inhuman, incompetent, unprofessional, I’m alright Jack arrogance is leaving people in awful situations from young to old. I wish they would just implode and **!? *8/ and with Grant Shatts in charge of the nation’s defence, you probably should as well.

 

[ainsworth74]

Did they have a guy with them or was it just low level demanding money with menaces?

My gaggle did actually! So they might have been legit

Interestingly on a couple of occasions when I worked in London I was approached on stations by young women who were 'stranded' and needed 'money towards the fare home'. 'Even better', I told them, 'I'll buy you a ticket - follow me to the booking office'. They always disappeared on the way, so at least I couldn't feel guilty about possibly leaving someone in danger.

First time I came across them that was my approach, as I always take when approached by someone trying this tactic, but strangely they didn't want to take me up on the offer