Best and worst refurbished train since privatisation

[Doomotron]

I don't want to prejudge but I am extremely concerned that one of my favourite trains on the network is going to be ruined by the installation of ironing boards, I do hope that the 390 escape this fate

They appear to be getting seats used in Europe, but I'm not sure how good they are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't want to prejudge but I am extremely concerned that one of my favourite trains on the network is going to be ruined by the installation of ironing boards, I do hope that the 390 escape this fate

390s are not getting ironing boards.

 

[Recessio]

As it operates over NR rails, I'm going to say the 1972 Bakerloo line stock. One of the best interiors on the network, certainly better than 92 stock. Also compare to the similar vintage on the Picadilly.

Recent 96 Stock Jubilee refurb was also very good.

 

[Journeyman]

As it operates over NR rails, I'm going to say the 1972 Bakerloo line stock. One of the best interiors on the network, certainly better than 92 stock. Also compare to the similar vintage on the Picadilly.

Recent 96 Stock Jubilee refurb was also very good.

Given how old the 72 Stock is now, I have to say they've done a nice job on them recently.

 

[Mikey C]

As it operates over NR rails, I'm going to say the 1972 Bakerloo line stock. One of the best interiors on the network, certainly better than 92 stock. Also compare to the similar vintage on the Picadilly.

Recent 96 Stock Jubilee refurb was also very good.

They might look tatty now, but the 1973 refurb was much more comprehensive than the 1972 one, giving them carriage end windows and an internal PIS similar to those of the 95 and 96 stock. You'd have been forgiven for thinking there were a new train

If you're comparing before and after, the C stock refurb was a major improvement

 

[Blindtraveler]

72 stock would be perfect if they could just sort out the announcements, far too quiet and in audible. As someone who relies upon these it is a big issue for me. Not done the jubilee since they started to refurbish the 96 stock, have they made many significant changes or is it just seat covers, repaint and flooring?

The 73 stock refurbishment was a lovely job and it's a shame that by the time the new trains come in they will be extremely careworn and less a fairly cosmetic refresh of the greatest bits is done on the cheap which wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility but possibly financially impossible now due to the virus

 

[L401CJF]

The 2003/2004 refurbishment of the Merseyrail 507/8 fleet was pretty good even if the seats are a bit hard. They lost a lot of character but from a passengers point of view its an improvement. The interior spruce up they got in 2014 is even smarter in my opinion.

I asked the Mrs how old she thought they were last time we went on one, and she said "about 15" years old.

 

[trebor79]

Best refurb the Night Riviera stock. Like a new train and very high quality.
Closely followed by GNER Mallard refurbs.

 

[TEW]

72 stock would be perfect if they could just sort out the announcements, far too quiet and in audible. As someone who relies upon these it is a big issue for me. Not done the jubilee since they started to refurbish the 96 stock, have they made many significant changes or is it just seat covers, repaint and flooring?

The 73 stock refurbishment was a lovely job and it's a shame that by the time the new trains come in they will be extremely careworn and less a fairly cosmetic refresh of the greatest bits is done on the cheap which wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility but possibly financially impossible now due to the virus

The 73 stock does seem be undergoing a mini refurbishment at present. I've travelled on a few over the past few weeks and over half have new seat covers, and the seat cushions have also been replaced by much firmer ones like in the 96 stock. I think the poles have also been repainted.

 

[ScottGallagher]

The 73 stock does seem be undergoing a mini refurbishment at present. I've travelled on a few over the past few weeks and over half have new seat covers, and the seat cushions have also been replaced by much firmer ones like in the 96 stock. I think the poles have also been repainted.

That's interesting I thought they would let the 73 stock wither away due to the new train order. Have the seat cushions changed in pattern after replacement or is it the same one?

 

[Mikey C]

That's interesting I thought they would let the 73 stock wither away due to the new train order. Have the seat cushions changed in pattern after replacement or is it the same one?

It's still 4 years before the new trains start entering service, and the Piccadilly Line is too important to run with trains that are visually falling apart!

 

[greatvoyager]

I’m not sure about the best refurb, but for me the worst was the FGW Dynamic Lines HST interior. A bit too much blue and lights too bright.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m not sure about the best refurb, but for me the worst was the FGW Dynamic Lines HST interior. A bit too much blue and lights too bright.

Best seats on the network, and physically of high quality, but ruined by the whole of the rest of the scheme (but fixed by ScotRail, of course). My backside and back were definitely comfortable but my eyes not!

I wonder was the designer perhaps from South East Asia or India? Not being racist, they do seem to prefer blueish "daylight lighting" over there, don't know why, perhaps because it psychologically "cools things down" in such hot places?

 

[Mikey C]

My memory of the GW HSTs is that most of the time they turned half the lights out (and it was still very bright inside), was this an operational change made after the initial entry to service?

First Great Western MK3 Standard Class Coach A Interior

31/07/10 - The standard class interior of a First Great Western MK3

www.flickr.com

FGW HST Interior

www.flickr.com

 

[Iliketrains123]

Note: this list is only drawn from stock I've extensively travelled on.

Best

• First ScotRail 318s (the 2013-17 refurb finished under Abellio) - basically the 2005-2007 refurb with a 'Saltire' theme. Basic/functional in many respects, but with decent legroom and frankly the most comfortable seats of any SR EMU (not to original Class 303 levels of comfortable, but the closest that exists), am always that little bit happier when a 318 turns up.
• Abellio ScotRail 320/4s - comparing the 3 unrefurbished 320/4s that entered service in March '16 to the refurbished examples that followed is like comparing apples and oranges. They looked like brand new units when they emerged from Kilmarnock. Again, basic/functional when compared to others on this list, but more than adequate for the Glasgow suburban network and with surprisingly comfortable seats into the bargain.

Worst

• First ScotRail Class 314 (2011-2013 refurb) - while it saw them through to the end in Dec. 2019, something akin to the Merseyrail 507/508 refurbishment is really what these units should've been treated to. That, or using the interior of the ex-507 driving trailer in 314203 (involved in the fatal 1991 Newton collision) as a template to build a more thorough interior redesign off of. Alas, it wasn't to be.

Keeping with Scotrail. Their 334 saltire interior is a huge improvement from the SPT teal and orange.

 

[greatvoyager]

Best seats on the network, and physically of high quality, but ruined by the whole of the rest of the scheme (but fixed by ScotRail, of course). My backside and back were definitely comfortable but my eyes not!

I quite liked the seats too, much more comfortable than I expected when I first saw them.

 

[prod_pep]

The lighting is simply a matter of personal taste. I don't like 'warm white' lighting at all, in any setting, as I find it dingy and depressing. All my lights at home are 'daylight white' these days (not blueish but certainly not the yellowish warm white glow) which gives a pleasant, modern and clean ambience. I must say, I like the look of the lighting on that FGW HST.

Indeed, the only things I would change about the current 507/8 interiors are the silver window frames and the warm white lighting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I quite liked the seats too, much more comfortable than I expected when I first saw them.

The only seat that the UK considers suitable for InterCity that other European operators do too - both OeBB in the Railjet and PKP in their FLIRTs (Fainsa's finest is a regional seat intended for short journeys).

 

[greatvoyager]

The only seat that the UK considers suitable for InterCity that other European operators do too - both OeBB in the Railjet and PKP in their FLIRTs (Fainsa's finest is a regional seat intended for short journeys).

Interesting, never knew that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting, never knew that.

In the Railjet:

Grammer IC3000 seats in OeBB Railjet, photo from seat61.com

Grammer IC3000 seats in PKP FLIRT, photo from railwaygazette.com

 

[Nymanic]

Variants are also used in all accommodation classes of the Italo Evo (non-tilting pendolino).

 

[danielnez1]

A side note, as far as I'm aware the Virgin XC and West Coast MK2/3 refurbishments were started by the previews BR owned shadow franchise companies, hence the XC and West Coast interiors being different.

Back on topic, IMHO the two worst privatisation refurbs are the Merseyrail 142 refurbishments (it was quite a feat to make the original Class 142 interior even worse), with the original GNER HST refurbishment coming in second (who thought a more or less all brown interior would look good?).

 

[greatvoyager]

In the Railjet:

Grammer IC3000 seats in OeBB Railjet, photo from seat61.com

Grammer IC3000 seats in PKP FLIRT, photo from railwaygazette.com

They look nicer in those photos.

 

[Journeyman]

with the original GNER HST refurbishment coming in second (who thought a more or less all brown interior would look good?).

I was just about to defend that as being a great interior, but I looked it up just now, and it's a lot browner than I remembered! It looks extremely dated now.

 

[fgwrich]

In the Railjet:

Grammer IC3000 seats in OeBB Railjet, photo from seat61.com

Grammer IC3000 seats in PKP FLIRT, photo from railwaygazette.com

I still feel that it's such a big shame that all those ex FGW Mk3s went to the chop, with standard and first class seats inside. And yet, it seems that everything either new or refurbished, now has to contain a dose of the dreaded Fainsa's.

 

[trebor79]

Best seats on the network, and physically of high quality, but ruined by the whole of the rest of the scheme (but fixed by ScotRail, of course). My backside and back were definitely comfortable but my eyes not!

I wonder was the designer perhaps from South East Asia or India? Not being racist, they do seem to prefer blueish "daylight lighting" over there, don't know why, perhaps because it psychologically "cools things down" in such hot places?

Far too many airline seats and not enough table bays, and everything squished together made it very claustrophobic. High seat backs ruined the views out of the windows too. It felt like sitting in a little cell. Combined with the horrible lighting and colour scheme I thought they were dreadful.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Variants are also used in all accommodation classes of the Italo Evo (non-tilting pendolino).

Apologies for the off-topic, but isn't "non-tilting pendolino" an oxymoron?

A side note, as far as I'm aware the Virgin XC and West Coast MK2/3 refurbishments were started by the previews BR owned shadow franchise companies, hence the XC and West Coast interiors being different.

Back on topic, IMHO the two worst privatisation refurbs are the Merseyrail 142 refurbishments (it was quite a feat to make the original Class 142 interior even worse), with the original GNER HST refurbishment coming in second (who thought a more or less all brown interior would look good?).

I posted upthread that I'd thought the MerseyTravel 142s were done before privatisation, being PTE-led rather than operator-led. Perhaps somebody "in the know" could confirm or deny this?
EDIT: Certainly they appeared in the Merseyrail livery long before privatisation (including when they still had the 4-piece doors) but can't find an image of one with RR branding (as opposed to a private TOC) & digital destination display. Still convinced I rode one with those horrible seats when I was small enough for them not to be that horrible! Could well be wrong though, memory isn't the most reliable!

The GNER mk4 brown looks very dated now, but at the time it was a vast improvement on the as-built interiors which were never great to start with and were very worn out by the time the Mallard refurbs started.

 

[Aictos]

Top 3 I reckon was best would be GNER Mallard, Connex Class 319 (brighton express) and Stansted Epress class 317/7

For the worst I'm not sure, propably any train that gets fitted with ironing board seats

The one thing that GNER did wrong with their Mallard refurbishment was getting rid of the fold down seats in the vestibule and replace it with a bench tilted at such a angle you couldn't really use it but instead could only lean again it.

Although they did get the buffet coach right in the Mk4 sets however what they did missed out on was they didn't take the opportunity to swap the Trailer First at one end of the HST set with the Trailer Guard Standard so you had a Trailer Standard replacing the Trailer Guard Standard and the Trailer Guard First replacing the Trailer First which would have given a near enough similar layout to the MK4s with the guards compartment always being at the London end which makes it easier for luggage too.

The Stansted Express Class 317/7 again wasn't a good refurbishment simply because they fitted air conditioning but kept the opening hopper windows which defeated the object of a working air conditioning system.

I always quite liked the refurb WAGN carried out on the Class 317/6 fleet. Seemed to be a good attempt to bring them up to the same interior standard as the 365's they ran alongside, with the new seats being a vast improvement over the knackered "dig springs in your back and arse" 3+2 layout they had before. Certainly put FCC's "refurbished" ones to shame in later years.

Perhaps not the worst refurb in the world but the way Great Northern stripped out the interiors of those same Class 365's, removing carpets and doing little to the tired seats apart from new moquette. Made them far noisier inside and they definitely weren't as pleasant to travel on even if the FCC era interior was getting worn out.

Agreed, the WAGN refurbishment that gave us the Class 317/6s is what I wish the Class 365s interior was kept as but also what the Class 317/1s and Class 321/4s could have been like.

I remember the Class 317/1s having carpet too thoughout even in Standard until that was dumbed down and removed much like every Class 365 refurbishment has made the interior even worser then the previous interior.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They look nicer in those photos.

I think there are 3 headrest sizes you can choose, TfW have the smallest one, GWR, ScotRail, EMR and PKP have the middle one, and it appears OeBB and Italo have the largest - at least they look bigger to me.

Interestingly I don't find a considerable comfort difference between them, while the smaller one is less claustrophobic so I maybe prefer that one.

I posted upthread that I'd thought the MerseyTravel 142s were done before privatisation, being PTE-led rather than operator-led. Perhaps somebody "in the know" could confirm or deny this?

They were done slightly after, but they were indeed done to PTE spec (the FNW operator spec retained the bench seats). The repainting into the original Merseyside PTE yellow, black, grey and white happened well before any refurb (and was itself pre-privatisation). I seem to recall that the refurbs were outshopped in the newer version of the livery without the black band.

The thing they did have in common was the FNW-spec large luggage and bicycle rack at one end.

 

[Mikey C]

In the Railjet:

Grammer IC3000 seats in OeBB Railjet, photo from seat61.com

Grammer IC3000 seats in PKP FLIRT, photo from railwaygazette.com

Lots of airline seats in those interiors!

To me those seats are too high. I'm tall, but even I find that the seat is significantly higher than my head, making the interior claustrophobic