Beyond Headbolt Lane: could we see further extensions to Skelmersdale/Rainford?

[Vespa]

Just been on the route to Headbolt Lane, overall I've noticed the ride to be much smoother possibly due to the extra weight of the battery, other than that the interior of 777142 to be no different from 7770xx series.

Nice station if a bit sparse, noticed that the Northern train didn't match the Merseyrail departure today with the 150 unit arriving after the 777 had already left could be a Saturday thing.

They need to extend to Rainford to fully incorprate the station into Merseyside and the benefit of 4 trains an hour into Liverpool.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They need to extend to Rainford to fully incorprate the station into Merseyside and the benefit of 4 trains an hour into Liverpool.

Does anyone know of any formal discussions that have been held with that Merseyrail service extension to Rainford matter in mind?

 

[darylyates17]

Just been on the route to Headbolt Lane, overall I've noticed the ride to be much smoother possibly due to the extra weight of the battery, other than that the interior of 777142 to be no different from 7770xx series.

Nice station if a bit sparse, noticed that the Northern train didn't match the Merseyrail departure today with the 150 unit arriving after the 777 had already left could be a Saturday thing.

They need to extend to Rainford to fully incorprate the station into Merseyside and the benefit of 4 trains an hour into Liverpool.

Wonder how much work would be needed to allow an extension to Rainford would need double tracking as well and re signalling.

 

[Scouse77]

Wonder how much work would be needed to allow an extension to Rainford would need double tracking as well and re signalling.

For a 15 min interval yes, but the layout at Headbolt Lane is designed for 30 min interval towards Skem/Wigan and 30 min for Headbolt into what in effect becomes a bay platform which gives HBL a 15 min service.

 

[Farigiraf]

Have they mentioned extending to Skelmersdale if the line towards Rainford becomes Merseyrail? Definitely seems possible and more financially viable than some other ideas I've seen proposed by officials, unless the proposal is to extend from the Burscough lines?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Have they mentioned extending to Skelmersdale if the line towards Rainford becomes Merseyrail? Definitely seems possible and more financially viable than some other ideas I've seen proposed by officials, unless the proposal is to extend from the Burscough lines?

Technically this is off-topic here and has been discussed in various threads in recent years. However the following is a brief summary of the current situation.

In 2021 Lancs CC submitted a formal business case to the DfT for a re-opening scheme to Skelmersdale. In July of last year that plan was officially rejected with the DfT insisting that any upgrades to Skelmersdale's public transport links should be bus-based. Given the current mood music around rail schemes and the generally parlous state of the country's public finances I don't think there is any chance of a similar scheme being formally proposed for many years to come.

 

[Tremzinho]

No doubt extending to Rainford would involve a load more work to create an interchange station - costing £20m or more.

Wouldn’t it be easier just to extend 2 an hour to Wigan Wallgate and use the bay platform there? I assume a 4 car 777 will fit, and the Kirby line doesn’t seem to get doubled up units anymore anyway.

Skelmersdale seems to have dropped off the radar as a serious project unfortunately.

 

[Farigiraf]

Is there a curve from the Southport/Rainford lines onto Wigan North Western/WCML? The Blackburn service was just really 2 services stuck together so how about Wigan Wallgate-Blackburn via Manchester and Headbolt Lane-Liverpool Lime Street via St Helens?

 

[Tremzinho]

Headbolt Lane - Lime Street via St Helens could technically be done (although might create pathing issues) but would bring diesel under wires for very little benefit for passengers.

Extending some of the battery 777’s to Wigan allows Northern to get rid of a dmu and terminates the route somewhere with decent onward connections.

You’d get a lot more people using the route for connecting to Manchester, London or Scotland etc as for many in north Liverpool or Kirby it would be quicker than going to Lime Street. Few bother at the moment because the poor frequency and having to change at Kirby (now Headbolt Lane) makes it too risky.

 

[317 forever]

I agree Liverpool - Headbolt Lane trains should be extended at least to Wigan, even if no more frequently than the current service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I agree Liverpool - Headbolt Lane trains should be extended at least to Wigan, even if no more frequently than the current service.

Have you had sight of posting #6 on this thread that speaks of matters from 2021 onwards?

 

[Ianigsy]

Merseyrail running to Rainford would go some way towards correcting the percept that St Helens and Knowsley are the poor relations when it comes to Merseytravel’s priorities. Before electrification and the Class 331s, the last brand new units to enter service on the City Line services were the West Yorkshire-funded 155s and 158s in the late 1980s-early 90s.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Merseyrail running to Rainford would go some way towards correcting the percept that St Helens and Knowsley are the poor relations when it comes to Merseytravel’s priorities. Before electrification and the Class 331s, the last brand new units to enter service on the City Line services were the West Yorkshire-funded 155s and 158s in the late 1980s-early 90s.

What are the areas currently served by Rainford railway station?

 

[dvfmlfc]

What are the areas currently served by Rainford railway station?

In the locality? Very little, there's a new-ish village adjacent to the station, a caravan site around the corner but the main town of Rainford is well over a mile away. There's parking for about half-a-dozen cars.

I've never seen many people actually use the station, and I do feel potential passengers are put off by having to change trains at the next station towards Liverpool. Technically, a through-train to the city centre would take less than half an hour's travel, and the local political will is there for it, but on a national level they've knocked it back and I don't see the government changing their minds anytime soon.

 

[Tremzinho]

Rainford only has a population of around 8000, and most of those live more than a 30 minute walk from the station. For many it’s probably just as easy to drive to Headbolt Lane or St Helens Central.

Rainford doesn’t look particularly handy for Skelmersdale either, far better to use Upholland, by which time you might as well extend all the way to Wigan.

 

[snowball]

In 2021 Lancs CC submitted a formal business case to the DfT for a re-opening scheme to Skelmersdale. In July of last year that plan was officially rejected with the DfT insisting that any upgrades to Skelmersdale's public transport links should be bus-based. Given the current mood music around rail schemes and the generally parlous state of the country's public finances I don't think there is any chance of a similar scheme being formally proposed for many years to come.

It wouldn't really have been a reopening as it would have involved a new branch on a new alignment to a new station. The former Skelmerdsale station is not well located for the present town.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The former Skelmerdsale station is not well located for the present town.

Further along the line, you could say that about the current location of Upholland station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Skem scheme is basically dead, but I'd favour Merseyrail to Wigan which could serve a Skelmersdale Parkway, which would replace Upholland with a new building with car park in Pimbo. As the likelihood was of most people reaching "Skem Central" by car or taxi, this would be much cheaper than the new line and offer as useful a service.

Additionally it might be useful for inbound commuting to the surrounding industrial areas.

 

[Farigiraf]

I meant to post this earlier but it didn't send

To split Merseyrail's map into more of a broccoli floret you could first extend it to Rainford as everyone's suggestion, then electrify into Wigan and run trains into there (timetabled to connect with a Manchester train so people don't lose out on those benefits), then branch off from around Crawford into Skelmersdale. Only problem is it seems Skem was built without the railway in mind, as I cannot find a way into Skelmersdale without:

• Knocking down loads of homes
• Making it too far away but then it's basically a parkway which anyone who would use it is already using Rainford or Upholland for
• Disrupting wildlife in either parks on both sides of the town

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Only problem is it seems Skem was built without the railway in mind...

Skelmersdale station was closed to passenger train traffic on 5th November 1956. Skelmersdale New Town was not commenced for quite a number of years after the station closure.

 

[Tremzinho]

To split Merseyrail's map into more of a broccoli floret you could first extend it to Rainford as everyone's suggestion, then electrify into Wigan and run trains into there

If they weren’t willing to electrify to Headbolt Lane, there’s no way they’ll ever electrify to Wigan now that they’ve invested in batteries.

Kirkby to Wigan and back is within the quoted battery range of the 777s, although it wouldn’t be that hard to install a charging point at Wigan if necessary.

As for extending just to Rainford first, I just don’t see the point. As others have already said, the demand at Rainford will always be negligible, unless a major housing development is built around the station.

It would end up costing £millions to upgrade Rainford resignal and extend the platform to enable same platform connections. As no electrification is involved, it would be easier and more useful to just extend to Wigan in one go.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Making it too far away but then it's basically a parkway which anyone who would use it is already using Rainford or Upholland for

Assuming a station (whether new or existing) on the current line, the real game-changer would be increasing the service frequency - ideally to turn up and go (every 15 minutes or better?) but realistically to maybe every half hour, so that missing a train/cancellation would not be catastrophic to a journey.

The same, of course, would apply to a branch into Skem.

 

[snowball]

I meant to post this earlier but it didn't send

To split Merseyrail's map into more of a broccoli floret you could first extend it to Rainford as everyone's suggestion, then electrify into Wigan and run trains into there (timetabled to connect with a Manchester train so people don't lose out on those benefits), then branch off from around Crawford into Skelmersdale. Only problem is it seems Skem was built without the railway in mind, as I cannot find a way into Skelmersdale without:

• Knocking down loads of homes
• Making it too far away but then it's basically a parkway which anyone who would use it is already using Rainford or Upholland for
• Disrupting wildlife in either parks on both sides of the town

You appear to be unaware of the history of the recently dead proposal for Skelmersdale, previously discussed over many years in various threads in this forum. It involved a branch turning off the Kirkby-Wigan line at a triangular junction and passing under the M58 by the bridge over Whiteledge Road. If I remember correctly the council bought up a former college to serve as the station. I don't think it involved a lot of demolition.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Now that the Northern franchise is one of last resort and noting the specific entity of the Merseyrail franchise, what methodology would could come into play to allow parts of the Northern last resort franchise to be transferred in that of Merseyrail? Over those two bodies, when was the last time that such transferences took place and what stations were involved?

 

[AndrewE]

Now that the Northern franchise is one of last resort and noting the specific entity of the Merseyrail franchise, what methodology would could come into play to allow parts of the Northern last resort franchise to be transferred in the that of Merseyrail? Over those two bodies, when was the last time that such transferences took place and what stations were involved?

isn't that typical of a UK response? Why is either question relevant at all?
If the current laws make an improvement to public transport too difficult then they are not fit for purpose. If the powers-that-be can't work out an appropriate fudge then they should put some effort into changing the "laws" - which are only what we have ended up with after several decades of generally anti-public transport dogma.

Anybody would think that slavishly trying to conform to restrictions which were set up with dubious motives is more important than improving public transport, achieving modal shift and helping with the decarbonisation agenda - but then again, maybe some people think that is subversive rubbish too?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

isn't that typical of a UK response? Why is either question relevant at all?
If the current laws make an improvement to public transport too difficult then they are not fit for purpose. If the powers-that-be can't work out an appropriate fudge then they should put some effort into changing the "laws" - which are only what we have ended up with after several decades of generally anti-public transport dogma.

Are you saying that there are no legal status to rail franchises when awarded? On a different mode of transport, the Bee Network of Andy Burnham's vision still awards franchises for bus routes, even though he is a Labour mayor of Greater Manchester.

 

[Tremzinho]

Merseyrail has already taken over part of the route this week, seemingly with no major legal issues.

I can’t imagine taking over the rest of the route is going to ruffle feathers, it’s not like it’s a profitable route for Northern.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Merseyrail has already taken over part of the route this week, seemingly with no major legal issues.

I can’t imagine taking over the rest of the route is going to ruffle feathers, it’s not like it’s a profitable route for Northern.

Kirkby to Headbolt Lane is not the same as Kirkby to Wigan Wallgate as was mentioned earlier in the thread (and has been a part of long-locked threads over the years)

 

[randyrippley]

Extending just to Rainford might be a problem if you break the line there like at Knowsley - you need to keep a through route for the binliners

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The Skem scheme is basically dead, but I'd favour Merseyrail to Wigan which could serve a Skelmersdale Parkway, which would replace Upholland with a new building with car park in Pimbo. As the likelihood was of most people reaching "Skem Central" by car or taxi, this would be much cheaper than the new line and offer as useful a service.

Additionally it might be useful for inbound commuting to the surrounding industrial areas.

Merseyrail to Wigan only works alongside continuation of a service to/from Manchester for Pemberton and Orrell stations. Without it the revenue will suffer a big hit: passengers from those stations are largely travelling to Salford and Manchester, not Wigan for which local buses are a more attractive option. Without through trains they'll be back in their cars. Not forgetting of course the flow of students from the Atherton and Hindley areas to (sixth form) college at Orrell for whom the lack of through trains would also push them towards road transport though in this case by additional student bus services.

The most useful extension would be changing the Merseyrail/Northern changeover point to a rebuilt Upholland station with the main entrance on the Pimbo side and improved buses between there and Skem. Indeed it is sufficiently close that a number of different routes could be operated serving a wider area of the town.