Birmingham - North London

[wipeout]

Hi,

I regularly travel between Birmingham and North London (Southgate LU) on Fridays and return on Sunday evenings.

Here's what I normally do:

Either:- Get 2 advance tickets (usually on Virgin, few times Chiltern) and then oyster PAYG OR Super off peak return with Chiltern (£18.15 atm) and then oyster PAYG.

I have found that it tends to pointless buying 1 advance and 1 (super) off peak single because (super) off peak returns only cost 5 or 10p more! (Why??) Also, I've found that taking Chiltern probably only saves 10-15 mins max compared to London Midland due to the extra travelling between Marylebone and Euston.

I have a 16-25 railcard which is also linked to my oyster card.

My question is: I plan to travel on Fri Nov 23 leaving Birmingham any time between 4-8pm and return on Sun Nov 25 leaving London between 7-8pm (roughly). Whats the best tickets to book? (I ask "best" and not cheapest because I don't mind paying a few quid more for a faster journey) I don't mind if it's a booked train or a flexible ticket.

Since I make this journey reasonably regularly, I'm also looking for advice on how to get cheaper tickets not just for the date above!

 

[kieron]

Either:- Get 2 advance tickets (usually on Virgin, few times Chiltern) and then oyster PAYG OR Super off peak return with Chiltern (£18.15 atm) and then oyster PAYG.

I have found that it tends to pointless buying 1 advance and 1 (super) off peak single because (super) off peak returns only cost 5 or 10p more! (Why??)

While that's generally true, Virgin have web-only off-peak singles which cost half as much as the similar return tickets, but they only sell with an advance ticket in the other direction. They still cost as much as London Midland's cheapest return, though.

 

[calc7]

Hi,

I regularly travel between Birmingham and North London (Southgate LU) on Fridays and return on Sunday evenings.

Here's what I normally do:

Either:- Get 2 advance tickets (usually on Virgin, few times Chiltern) and then oyster PAYG OR Super off peak return with Chiltern (£18.15 atm) and then oyster PAYG.

I have found that it tends to pointless buying 1 advance and 1 (super) off peak single because (super) off peak returns only cost 5 or 10p more! (Why??) Also, I've found that taking Chiltern probably only saves 10-15 mins max compared to London Midland due to the extra travelling between Marylebone and Euston.

I have a 16-25 railcard which is also linked to my oyster card.

My question is: I plan to travel on Fri Nov 23 leaving Birmingham any time between 4-8pm and return on Sun Nov 25 leaving London between 7-8pm (roughly). Whats the best tickets to book? (I ask "best" and not cheapest because I don't mind paying a few quid more for a faster journey) I don't mind if it's a booked train or a flexible ticket.

Since I make this journey reasonably regularly, I'm also looking for advice on how to get cheaper tickets not just for the date above!

What is your marginal rate of substitution of price for time? Would you spend an hour more each way to save a tenner? Only when you furnish us with this information can we start to point you towards the "best" tickets for your journeys?

 

[34D]

Here are all the fares for Birmingham to New Southgate and Birmingham to Southgate Und so you can see whether the through fares are better value (dependant really on whatever other travel on oyster you may do).

 

[barrykas]

Here are all the fares for Birmingham to New Southgate and Birmingham to Southgate Und so you can see whether the through fares are better value (dependant really on whatever other travel on oyster you may do).

One flaw with that...New Southgate is a lot closer to Arnos Grove than it is to Southgate LU. Southgate LU is approximately equidistant from both Winchmore Hill and Palmers Green, but even then it's about 1.5 miles away from each.

If time is of the essence, then the best option for the OP would be to get Virgin to Euston, from where it's 25 minutes to Southgate by tube. If saving money is more important, London Midland's cheaper, but takes around 45 minutes to an hour longer than Virgin...

 

[wipeout]

Reply to a few points

While that's generally true, Virgin have web-only off-peak singles which cost half as much as the similar return tickets, but they only sell with an advance ticket in the other direction. They still cost as much as London Midland's cheapest return, though.

Does this cost £15.50? On redspottedhanky, I select an advance ticket on the outward journey but I can't select this for the return, it says "not available for any of the services below"

What is your marginal rate of substitution of price for time? Would you spend an hour more each way to save a tenner? Only when you furnish us with this information can we start to point you towards the "best" tickets for your journeys?

Roughly, I would pay an extra £10 to save 2 hours of travelling but thats probably the most I would pay extra, if that makes sense.

Here are all the fares for Birmingham to New Southgate and Birmingham to Southgate Und so you can see whether the through fares are better value (dependant really on whatever other travel on oyster you may do).

That Super off peak day travel card looks really good value because you get bus travel as well, shame you can't get it for the return.

Does a ticket to Zone U1234 give unlimited travel between those zones?

 

[34D]

One flaw with that...New Southgate is a lot closer to Arnos Grove than it is to Southgate LU. Southgate LU is approximately equidistant from both Winchmore Hill and Palmers Green, but even then it's about 1.5 miles away from each.

Indeed (I previously lived in the area), I was trying to keep it simple. Oakleigh Park must be a similar distance from southgate LU.

If I remember rightly there is no bus from Southgate to new southgate (or was it the other pair?).

 

[button_boxer]

I believe the SVH half-the-price-of-a-return singles are only available from Virgin's own website.

 

[Be3G]

If I remember rightly there is no bus from Southgate to new southgate (or was it the other pair?).

It depends on when you lived there – it used to be that there was no bus from Southgate to New Southgate, but some time back in (if I recall correctly) the early 2000s TfL introduced a new route, the 382, which does just that.

There is still no direct link between Southgate and Oakleigh Park, however.

 

[maniacmartin]

I believe the SVH half-the-price-of-a-return singles are only available from Virgin's own website.

They're available from Trainline-powered sites only. I have bought them in the past from South West Trains. WebTIS shows them but doesn't let you buy them.
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Does a ticket to Zone U1234 give unlimited travel between those zones?

No. A ticket to Zone U1234 gives you a single journey to a station in zones 1-4, and if a return a single journey from a station in the zones to connect with your return journey.

The only tickets with unlimited travel in the zones are those labelled "Travelcard" - which also let you go on buses too.

 

[barrykas]

There is still no direct link between Southgate and Oakleigh Park, however.

True, though the 125 gets fairly close, and changing to the 184 en route would get closer still.

But this is rapidly veering off-topic...

 

[wipeout]

Could also change to the 383 from 125 which would directly serve the station but be prepared for quite a long wait (especially after 8pm!) But this is going off topic!

They're available from Trainline-powered sites only. I have bought them in the past from South West Trains. WebTIS shows them but doesn't let you buy them.

This is an example of why the system is so confusing. You can book a ticket using one booking engine but not another, what's worse is that you can see it but not buy it. What's the point in that.