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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

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snowball

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There's an item on the Twitter feed saying the car park at Lostock station will be closed from 6pm Fri 6 April to 8 April for delivery of the substation. Also has an old picture of the base before the concrete was poured.

Also some recent pictures and video clips from Blackpool.

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP
 
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LDECRexile

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I've now learned that:

1. MENTOR is booked to do the testing.
2. The evening of 15th April will be used for Northern driver familiarisation training.

The last two shots in this mini-album show MENTOR doing its thing through St Helens Central. The films show others doing testing in the wee small hours

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157691411522805
 
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LDECRexile

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Lordy Lordy - shot 9744m goes way beyond a TGBU.

Remarkably, I don't think it's the biggest, there's one to make your eyes water in the "Vee" where the Atherton and Bolton lines part north of Salford Crescent.

There's a bonus point available for anyone who can submit a photo, I've never managed it.
 

superkev

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I've now learned that:

1. MENTOR is booked to do the testing.
2. The evening of 15th April will be used for Northern driver familiarisation training.
That's not long to train (how many) drivers. Presumably that will all have to drive the new signalling an layout a few times.
K
 

driver9000

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That's not long to train (how many) drivers. Presumably that will all have to drive the new signalling an layout a few times.
K

Not necessarily. When the Chorley line was resignalled and speeds changed we were given an off train safety briefing using maps and DVDs to familiarise ourselves with the new infrastructure.
 

Class 170101

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I have heard your lot are looking to run an instrumented test Pendo down there in April, chances are they won't be by the sounds of it.

Wouldn't be surprised. The Liverpool one was held up a number of times. Still, it shouldn't be a problem getting a train or a driver if they did it at night.

Won't Virgin need to run tests to get the traction route cleared anyway? So the more tests done with the same train the better?
 

driver_m

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They'll probably run one of the sets equipped with monitoring equipment I'd imagine .Certainly for power draw, signalling interference, and possibly two passing to test the resilience of the OLE. They should already know if there are any gauge issues on the route but make sure anyway .
 

Garry Waters

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Not a soul at Blackpool North today ?
Have they all buggered off up to Poulton to push it on a bit I wonder ?
 

LDECRexile

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As today is a shutdown Saturday and Ann was at her daughter's in Birmingham I did a road tour of the southern end of "our" route today.

I hoped it would be awash with orange, but not a speck at or near Salford Crescent, Frederick Street, Broughton Road or Cock Robin bridge. By this time I was getting pretty fed up.

Things started to look up at Park House Bridge where I met an Orangeman arriving from the Midlands to join a team putting wires in trackside troughing.

From Agecroft Road bridge I could see them, plus yellow on-track plant to the north, so I set off along the canal towards Clifton. The orange count soon rose sharply, with a de-veging crew at work picking logs from the trackside then a separate squad laying ballast the hard way from sacks carried on road railers. The tasks and body count now began to justify line closure.

Next stop Clifton station with its TTC straddling the platforms, no orange on show, but the de-veged view to the south is remarkable, with the Hilton in Manchester in plain sight, for example.

Back to the car then off to Dixon Fold, nowt there, of course, it looks pretty wire-ready, but I could see specks of orange near the M60, so off I set through Clifton Country Park in the sunshine. As I got near the new footbridge just north of the M60 I was amazed and delighted to see not only a full gang and not only a road-railer delivering bridge parts, but the three bridge support columns on the northbound side standing proud. I was amazed because I reported on Monday what I thought I had seen from a speeding train that there wasn't even a base curing there, how wrong I was! I'm delighted to embark on millinery mastication.

Now followed an hour and a half of fun in the sun. Not only were the southbound side columns erected before me and my camera, but I was given a cup of tea and explanations by the really pleasant and thoroughly professional men from Buckingham Group and Harrison Engineering (there may have been other firms there, who I didn't manage to identify by name, all credit to them, too.)

The plan is that a larger crane will arrive tonight and lift on the steps, then, last of all the crosspiece to form the bridge and knit it all together. By tomorrow morning there should be a new structure standing proud. It was planned to install it in early April, so it is ahead of schedule. It is estimated to be available for NR to sign off and open in about a month, the new trackside paths on the northbound side are still to be completed.

It is bridge MVE1/27B.

The shift finished, men and machines moved off; over to the night shift in a few hours time.

I was told that work on the Red Moss bridge is currently stopped, which fits with its appearance from the train window earlier in the week.

Photos later.
 

The_Engineer

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A large overhead installed at Blackpool North today.
Ah, that must have gone on the large concrete base pad, where there's been a hole in the fence for quite a while (secured with temporary Harras fence). No doubt the overhead lines will now follow on as this must be the last supporting structure.
 

reg

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Bolton-new bases in place platform 3 approaches from the north west, two new bases platform 5 including the "missing link",new cables installed alongside platforms 1& 5.Couple of pictures later.
 

LDECRexile

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Great photos of M60 footbridge site work
Thank you.

ALX400 has kindly sent photos from Blackrod. I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651121057352

Reg has kindly sent the shots he mentioned above. I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157671732263863

I've added both sets to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you both. Smashing stuff.
 
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LDECRexile

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Toured Kirkham, Kirkham Junction and Bridge 29 in the sun today.

Lots of wires up, lots of orange action around Bridge 29.

Very positive.

Yippee!!

Photos later.
 

Foggycorner

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Looking again at the pictures of the M60 footbridge work I suspect we can see the answer to why the Manchester to Preston electrification is running late and over budget
Just how many does it take to have an erection track side
 

GRALISTAIR

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LDECRexile

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Looking again at the pictures of the M60 footbridge work I suspect we can see the answer to why the Manchester to Preston electrification is running late and over budget
Just how many does it take to have an erection track side

Please see post #6611, this bridge was erected early. It is possible that this bridge is under, on or over budget, I have no idea. Please say what makes you believe it is over budget.

My interpretation is different, this evidence shows why electrification costs so much and especially why electrification projects cost so much more than just electrification, eg raising bridges and replacing foot crossings with bridges.

There are many examples of things which have hammered time and cash on this project and continue to do so, eg:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123826797/in/album-72157661069863633/

but nothing I saw on Saturday at Bridge 27C made me think that was one of them.
 

Joseph_Locke

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Within earshot of trains passing the one and half
It depends on your definition of "late" and "budget"! specifically to phase 4, Manchester to Preston:
  • The original budget was set about 7 years ago based on a cost per track kilometre and a few fairly random lumps of money for vegetation clearance: this is figure A
  • I've never seen a budget for all the bridge reconstructions, as they were delivered via framework contracts. We'll call this value X.
  • As part of Northern Hub, a journey time improvement study concluded that there was a business case for shaving about 4 minutes off the Salford - Euxton time; this had a cost of B at GRIP3.
  • Figure A then went up with the very sensible decision to go for AT rather then BT
  • The electrification and Journey time scheme were then combined, but with some of the track lowerings that the framework was supposed to design added in - this brought savings, so A+B (and part of X) become a slightly more efficient figure of D, except that it was realised that figure A had been very wrong (a lack of site visits possibly) so figure D leapt to about 1.5D, only helped by figure B reducing a bit at the same time - The combined scheme had to add in Chorley Station, Bolton remodelling, Bolton canopies and more signalling scope.
  • The budget went through the "ECAM" process and got reset according to rules I don't fully understand up to about 2D
  • Then the Balfours thing happened, but only after they'd chewed through quite a lot of money doing a less than excellent job, leading to more delay
  • Some of this has had to be re-done by Carillion, who also went bust, meaning that the scope had to be reallocated, leading to more delay
So, depends on your definition of "late" and "budget" - I have no idea where the project is in relation to 2D ...
 

GRALISTAIR

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CdBrux

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[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']Indeed. What I would like to see going forward is:
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']Yes your groveliness Secretary of State.
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']If you want to keep old fashioned signaling or even semaphores- very little cost. If you want brand new and safer and better headway capacity signaling it will cost u
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']If you want electrification that will sustain average speeds of 90 mph it will cost w
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']If you want to remove vegetation that has been allowed to grow wild and causes leaves falling on tracks and delays and during heavy rain may blow on the track and cause safety issues that will cost v
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']If you want electrification that will sustain average speeds of 90 mph +/- Q it will cost w +/- x
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']If while you are at it you want to remove foot crossings and do something about level crossings for safety it will cost w + y
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']If while you are at it you want to lengthen some platforms to take longer trains and alter platforms for speed and other operational convenience it will cost w + z
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']If you want it all it will cost u+ v+ w + x + y + z
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']something like that anyway
[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
[URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/'][URL='https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/26123825567/in/album-72157661069863633/']

Totally agree. It sounds like the Transpennine Route Upgrade is / has been presented that way. Of course that depends on asking the right questions in the first place and having them focused on desired outcomes

Oh I know I am being over simplistic - but I was trying to simplify.
I once got marked down on an assignment for my Masters - --- Graham, you have not shown the cost and business case for DOING NOTHING !

Doing nothing option is very important. In my last two roles one company included this in all analysis for investments and another did not. The decision making in the company that did was much clearer, not least as the one who did not sort of did it by everyone overlaying their interpretation on top and thus finding it far harder to get an alignment. Not the only reason one company was far better than the other in making decisions though![/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Messages
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Location
Mold, Clwyd
It depends on your definition of "late" and "budget"! specifically to phase 4, Manchester to Preston:
  • The original budget was set about 7 years ago based on a cost per track kilometre and a few fairly random lumps of money for vegetation clearance: this is figure A
  • I've never seen a budget for all the bridge reconstructions, as they were delivered via framework contracts. We'll call this value X.
  • As part of Northern Hub, a journey time improvement study concluded that there was a business case for shaving about 4 minutes off the Salford - Euxton time; this had a cost of B at GRIP3.
  • Figure A then went up with the very sensible decision to go for AT rather then BT
  • The electrification and Journey time scheme were then combined, but with some of the track lowerings that the framework was supposed to design added in - this brought savings, so A+B (and part of X) become a slightly more efficient figure of D, except that it was realised that figure A had been very wrong (a lack of site visits possibly) so figure D leapt to about 1.5D, only helped by figure B reducing a bit at the same time - The combined scheme had to add in Chorley Station, Bolton remodelling, Bolton canopies and more signalling scope.
  • The budget went through the "ECAM" process and got reset according to rules I don't fully understand up to about 2D
  • Then the Balfours thing happened, but only after they'd chewed through quite a lot of money doing a less than excellent job, leading to more delay
  • Some of this has had to be re-done by Carillion, who also went bust, meaning that the scope had to be reallocated, leading to more delay
So, depends on your definition of "late" and "budget" - I have no idea where the project is in relation to 2D ...

What a pity this excellent analysis wasn't presented to the Transport Select Committee!
I think there might be an E budget which represents the enhancements due on the line anyway (much of it being very old and worn).
NR would have had to have invested in it to keep it going - they got that free by spending D or whatever, and should be able to have a modest maintenance holiday as a result.
I wonder if the proportionate difference between A and the final turnout will be more or less than that for the GW project (ie a factor of about 3)?

I remember Richard Bowker saying that no one person knew the reasons why WCRM (unfinished and reduced scope) cost in excess of £8 billion instead of the £2 billion estimate.
The planning of electrification projects seems to be a similar black art.
 
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