Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[The Planner]

Reassuring thank you very much. W12 is excellent

Rare for anything new to be built to less than W12 now.

 

[Bullfield WEst]

Brilliant set of "Last Day" working photo's on Farnworth Tunnel/Station from Joe. Must get to bed for my early trip though... excited, great Crimbo present!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Brilliant set of "Last Day" working photo's on Farnworth Tunnel/Station from Joe. Must get to bed for my early trip though... excited, great Crimbo present!

I'm a wee tiny little bit disappointed at the wooden shuttering going up over the proper fencing, and the state of that piling around the new signal. This to be sorted over Christmas, along with removing the track from the old tunnel ?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I'm a wee tiny little bit disappointed at the wooden shuttering going up over the proper fencing, and the state of that piling around the new signal. This to be sorted over Christmas, along with removing the track from the old tunnel ?

DontmentiontherailingsatFarnworth ...

... and "that piling" is a) probably final and b) best not mentioned either

The designers do, in fact, know how much space a train + pantograph needs, including electrical and mechanical clearances.

And it's been independently checked. Twice*


*well, it is Christmas

 

[chrissawer]

Picture and several videos on the Network Rail Northern Programme twitter feed of trains going through the new tunnel this morning.

That's the first train through then. Welcome to your new #farnworthtunnel!

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The Class 185 photograph gives a great demonstration of the amount of space available between the roof of a unit and the tunnel lining for the impending OLE installation (and the tunnel's W12 gauge clearance).

Oh ye of little faith, indeed.

We're not NASA you know, unable to convert properly between metric and imperial. I suspect we will have to beat some knowledge into the new recruits for HS2 though, as they'll be working primarily in metric except when they touch our old network.

 

[snowball]

In one of the videos, in which a Manchester-bound train goes through the station and into the tunnel, Joseph's signal remains green for an awful long time after it's passed.

 

[deltic08]

The Class 185 photograph gives a great demonstration of the amount of space available between the roof of a unit and the tunnel lining for the impending OLE installation (and the tunnel's W12 gauge clearance).

Oh ye of little faith, indeed. .

That was the first thing I noticed when I saw the photo, and then the Network Rail banner, although being on a curve there is cant to throw the train over away from the tunnel lining whereas the Class 66 was photographed on the middle straight section. It would be interesting to see a train on the other track where curvature and cant will throw the train towards the tunnel lining.
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In one of the videos, in which a Manchester-bound train goes through the station and into the tunnel, Joseph's signal remains green for an awful long time after it's passed.

And there is an unwelded joint clickety click unless this is for track circuits.

Obviously there is a tsr on at the moment and I heard 100mph is unlikely even after introduction of 319s. Does anybody know what is the likely linespeed please?

No more excitement on this line until resumation of electrification work then? What will we do in the interim! Ah I forgot, Christmas.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Obviously there is a tsr on at the moment and I heard 100mph is unlikely even after introduction of 319s. Does anybody know what is the likely linespeed please?

75mph both ways until the full resignalling is completed, 2016-2017, then 100mph one way and 95mph the other through Farnworth Tunnel.
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In one of the videos, in which a Manchester-bound train goes through the station and into the tunnel, Joseph's signal remains green for an awful long time after it's passed.

Until the front of the train reaches the far end of the tunnel, which is where the next track circuit boundary is: as per the design. The signal on he approach of MP620 will stay at red until the train is completely clear of the tunnel.

 

[Bullfield WEst]

Well I managed to do the trip this morning, someone should let the "Orangemen" know flash photography is not a good idea. The PIS is working on P2 but P1 is putting the same info out. People were asking if they were on the right platform as the screen said Wigan next train. Now for the video, well, eerr, never tried this with a GoPro before but I've learned a lot

This video is the initial rough cut from a GoPro 3 Black. As you will see I knew I had to black out the reflections but didn't do a good job of it. Next time I'll tape over the flashing lights also
Aboard the leading carriage on Class 185 leaving Bolton at 05:42 (3 late). Finishing after Kearsley Station. Orangemen seen taking photos on Farnworth Station.

Link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5LMj03Lfd0&feature=youtube_gdata

More Video and Photos later.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The Class 185 photograph gives a great demonstration of the amount of space available between the roof of a unit and the tunnel lining for the impending OLE installation (and the tunnel's W12 gauge clearance).

Oh ye of little faith, indeed.

I apologize - I am happy.

That was the first thing I noticed when I saw the photo ----

Yep - me too!!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Clarifying last week's report, there are actually 5 OHLE masts on the Down line south of Adlington.
They have registration gear and a couple have autotensioners fitted.
Nothing on the Up line.

NR has retained the 30mph PSR between the crossovers at Moses Gate and Kearsley, but of course without the dip to 15mph through the old bore.
All working fine today, things seem much more relaxed now the full timetable is back.

319s on the Liverpool-Warrington BQ too.
All the platform PIS displays say "10M more seats annually on Northern services from 14 December. "
Anyone know if that is true?

 

[Senex]

.... then 100mph one way and 95mph the other through Farnworth Tunnel.

Why the 5-mph differential between the two directions?

 

[swt_passenger]

All the platform PIS displays say "10M more seats annually on Northern services from 14 December. "
Anyone know if that is true?

In another thread there was a report that 3400 seats per week were being provided on the Abbey line, which by coincidence uses 319s. So that would be 176800 per year, and we now know that is achieved by a single unit making one return journey per day.

So the 10 million needs 56 times that amount. Looking at the 319s, you'd get that with 8 units doing 7 return journeys per day on average. Other permutations are available, but it is an easily achievable figure.

Annualising it just gives a bigger headline number, and seems to be the latest DfT fad...

...and another thing, when are they comparing it with? Last week, or the timetable change in December last year? The calculation would be very different...

 

[Trackman]

Why the 5-mph differential between the two directions?

Signalling I guess on the down line to Moses Gate

 

[Geeves]

Im guessing the 95 is towards Bolton? Even if you weren't stopping at Bolton I guess that very gentle curve at the end of platform 4 might be an issue

 

[Class 170101]

What will the method of electrification be through the tunnel?

Overhead wiring or Overhead conductor bar fixed to the roof?

 

[CAF397]

Signalling I guess on the down line to Moses Gate

Ironically from Farnworth - Moses Gate it is 4-aspect signalling, and only 3-aspect on the Up.

But I also guess the curve might be a tad harsher as the down line rejoins its former alignment?

 

[thealexweb]

Im guessing the 95 is towards Bolton? Even if you weren't stopping at Bolton I guess that very gentle curve at the end of platform 4 might be an issue

The speed limit through Bolton is 15mph isn't it?

 

[snowball]

What will the method of electrification be through the tunnel?

Overhead wiring or Overhead conductor bar fixed to the roof?

I'd bet on wiring rather than conductor bar, in the same way that I disagreed with those who said concrete slab track would be used.

I imagine each support point will have a central "downpipe" from the crown of the roof with registration arms sticking out to each side.

Edit: Or separate downpipes for each track, like these at Manchester Victoria from one of LDECR's photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/18037278598/in/album-72157648494725811/lightbox/


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The NR website now has a press release and a front-page news item:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...services-as-enlarged-farnworth-tunnel-reopens

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2015/dec/north-west-electrification-closer-Farnworth-Tunnel-opens/

 

[CAF397]

The speed limit through Bolton is 15mph isn't it?

40 through the platform, 20 for Bolton West Jn on the down, 20 rising to 30/40 on the Up.

 

[Geeves]

I was being slightly sarcastic honestly!

I was just thinking its not far from Bolton so you might well be easing off to stop anyway so whether is 95 or 100 Im thinking its not going to be noticeable.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

40 through the platform, 20 for Bolton West Jn on the down, 20 rising to 30/40 on the Up.

All correct - the point is that all trains brake faster than they can accelerate, so the drop from 100 to whatever on the Down can be north of the increase to 100 on the Up. There's no point maintaining the railway to a higher speed than trains can actually do, waste of your tax pennies.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ironically from Farnworth - Moses Gate it is 4-aspect signalling, and only 3-aspect on the Up.
But I also guess the curve might be a tad harsher as the down line rejoins its former alignment?

I noticed a new banner repeater on the Up yesterday (for MP620, between Moses Gate and Farnworth). Maybe this helps the speed limit.
I didn't notice if there was one on the Down.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I noticed a new banner repeater on the Up yesterday (for MP620, between Moses Gate and Farnworth). Maybe this helps the speed limit.
I didn't notice is there was one on the Down.

MP20BR is required at 75mph as MP620 is obscured by bridge 44.

MP621 on the Down is visible through the tunnel and doesn't need one, but will be relocated later anyway.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'd bet on wiring rather than conductor bar, in the same way that I disagreed with those who said concrete slab track would be used.

I imagine each support point will have a central "downpipe" from the crown of the roof with registration arms sticking out to each side.

There would be little point in fitting conductor bar unless absolutely necessary, there are existing methods of running the contact wire and catenary much closer together within tunnels (gradually reducing the height of the droppers on approach). The same technique is used under some low bridges.

I would assume that the transitions between normal OHLE and conductor bar also introduce extra potential failure points?

 

[Dixie]

I would assume that the transitions between normal OHLE and conductor bar also introduce extra potential failure points?

Not necessarily, if it's done properly.

There's a great account of several such equipped tunnels on a line in France, using, I think, Furrer and Frey equipment, called La ligne du Haut-Bugey from Bourg-en-Bresse to Bellegarde. In the recent past this line was upgraded (having been virtually abandoned) to be used by TGVs from Paris to Geneva. The website http://www.ligneduhautbugey.fr/ is really fascinating and at the time described the progress of the works much in the same way as is being done here and on the Manchester to Liverpool forum. It is worth a good read, but you will have to use Google translate as it's in French! (Right click on each page when it's loaded in Google Chrome and select translate to English).

There's also a good cab ride video on You Tube in which you can see the transisitions from wire to bar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw5pXDNH8SE

You can see a transition during video 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPrWMSJ_Ibw) at about 6 minutes in (Not all tunnels have bars, only the really long ones).

 

[snowball]

Is any work planned between Salford and Euxton over the Christmas - New Year break? Bolton perhaps?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

There would be little point in fitting conductor bar unless absolutely necessary, there are existing methods of running the contact wire and catenary much closer together within tunnels (gradually reducing the height of the droppers on approach). The same technique is used under some low bridges.

I would assume that the transitions between normal OHLE and conductor bar also introduce extra potential failure points?

The drawings I have show the tunnel electrified with sprung/elastic registration equipment using conventional contact wire, and the catenary wire running paired up with the contact wire.

Don't know if that has changed, as the rigid overhead conductor system is very much in-vogue (quite rightly) with NR at the moment - it's more expensive but it's so reliable and low maintenance, and there's a bit of reluctance to put normal wire through tunnels.

 

[thealexweb]

40 through the platform, 20 for Bolton West Jn on the down, 20 rising to 30/40 on the Up.

Very interesting. I have never actually been on a train through Bolton that has not actually called at Bolton so I have never experienced it :P
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Is any work planned between Salford and Euxton over the Christmas - New Year break? Bolton perhaps?

One would hope so considering the late starts and early finishes to service.