Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[scrapy]

Don't think Network Rail have publicly announced a completion date for platform 5 but I don't think it is required for the December 2017 timetable change. I would expect it to be in operation by 2019 at the latest and any Virgin extensions from Manchester would need it to be operational so they can use platform 4.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The number of masts on the line hasn't increased in the last 2 weeks.
They are still confined to Lostock-Horwich.
In fact nothing new at all, though the lineside seems quite busy.
Chorley P1 looks finished, although the station building is still fenced off.
Earth wires are now up on the masts leading from Ordsall Lane towards Salford Crescent.
Presumably this is part of the Christmas remodelling work.

 

[42626]

Old OS maps:

1. confirm that the lane used to go under the railway, as shown here:

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=53.5956&lon=-2.5755&layers=6&b=1

2. The six inch map makes it look like there was a building here

3. The first time I went (approx 2 years ago) I thought the remains suggested a former bridge and a small building.

Yes, the 1893 map I have shows three buildings on the west side and an underpass. I shall have to have another look next time I'm there.

 

[TBSchenker]

Significant vegetation clearance underway at Poulton-le-Fylde, where the former avoiding lines were. Unsure of the reason behind this, whether some form of site compound will be built there, or as part of the general Network Rail war against trees.

Chorley down platform was being swept this afternoon, looks complete. What is the date for reopening? Looking at it, there is no reason it couldn't be this weekend.

Some metal piles were seen lineside in the vicinity of Agecroft South Jn next to the down goods line.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I suppose we should be grateful that the NW project hasn't received the same treatment today as the GW project. http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=83452&page=219
But it would be nice to know if we are still on track for Dec 2017 (Blackpool excepted).

 

[LeylandLen]

Great Western electrification: Intercity line work 'deferred'

see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-37908735

Maybe it will help the Manchester Blackpool electrification ?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ever the bearer of bad news, the NAO Audit Report : https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Modernising-the-Great-Western-railway.pdf
contains a couple of references to the cascading of GWR stock to Northern.
It says Northern will have to wait 9 months longer than planned to get the promised 15x units.
Then it says that infrastructure delays in the north may cause a delay in the requirement for these units.

page 45:
In the wider rail network, passengers on Northern franchise routes may have to wait an additional nine months as trains are retained in the west to protect services.
At the time of the revision the Department was aware of potential delays to infrastructure works in the north which would have meant that Northern would not have required the trains as early as planned.

Make of that what you wish...

 

[thealexweb]

That statement by the Daft makes next to no sense. Phases 3-7 are running well behind time so if anything the need for more DMUs increases.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That statement by the Daft makes next to no sense. Phases 3-7 are running well behind time so if anything the need for more DMUs increases.

That's not a DfT statement.
It's from an independent auditor working for the National Audit Office.

 

[thealexweb]

That's not a DfT statement.
It's from an independent auditor working for the National Audit Office.

My mistake, I thought it was one of those governmental organisations that are accountable to the Minister.

 

[cool2005]

when will blackpool north to preston have trains running instead of the busses?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

when will blackpool north to preston have trains running instead of the busses?

Not quite sure what you mean here.
All that has happened is that a few very early/late trains have been replaced by buses so that Network Rail have longer overnight to work on the route.
Everything else is as normal until there are some full blockades, mainly at winter weekends.
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...-before-they-travel-as-railway-upgrade-begins

It is all supposed to be complete in May 2018, when electric trains start running.

 

[cool2005]

Not quite sure what you mean here.
All that has happened is that a few very early/late trains have been replaced by buses so that Network Rail have longer overnight to work on the route.
Everything else is as normal until there are some full blockades, mainly at winter weekends.
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...-before-they-travel-as-railway-upgrade-begins

It is all supposed to be complete in May 2018, when electric trains start running.

sorry i mate the late trains which are replaced by busses will this be like this till 2018?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

sorry i mate the late trains which are replaced by busses will this be like this till 2018?

Yes, that's what it says on the NR press release.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another week of seemingly negligible progress.
Some registration arms are now up on the Bolton line at Ordsall Lane.
More blue markers for mast bases have appeared on the Blackpool line, reaching almost to Kirkham.
But that's it. Nothing new Salford Crescent to Euxton.
Despite what NR says about completion, this project doesn't have the momentum to finish in 13 months.

I had a look at the Victoria-Stalybridge line too, and again nothing doing.
The OHLE feeder point east of the tunnel didn't seem to have any work going on either.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its deja vu, remember everyone complaining about no progress being made on the Liverpool-Wigan line electrification. That in the end only slipped from Dec to March.

 

[LDECRexile]

Yes, that's what it says on the NR press release.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another week of seemingly negligible progress.
Some registration arms are now up on the Bolton line at Ordsall Lane.
More blue markers for mast bases have appeared on the Blackpool line, reaching almost to Kirkham.
But that's it. Nothing new Salford Crescent to Euxton.
Despite what NR says about completion, this project doesn't have the momentum to finish in 13 months.

I had a look at the Victoria-Stalybridge line too, and again nothing doing.
The OHLE feeder point east of the tunnel didn't seem to have any work going on either.

Hmmm......

Disquieting. I fear your comment on "momentum" might hit the nail on the head. The three things which trouble me the most are:

1. lack of comment from NR on progress or lack of, at Farnworth we had no end, including when things went wrong
2. the National Grid work south of Kearsley which hasn't been started
3. the substantial stretches with no evidence of any electrification activity at all, notably Bolton to Agecroft.

From Liverpool-Manchester/Wigan I can well believe that things can motor when they get cracking, but getting cracking ain't evident yet.

 

[fflint]

Off topic slightly, does anyone know whats happened to "Philip Phlopp"? He seemed to have an inside track on NR and what was happening which helped us understand these schemes. While I am on the subject of contributers thanks are due to "Joseph Locke" for his contributions throughout this and other threads.

 

[Mollman]

Its deja vu, remember everyone complaining about no progress being made on the Liverpool-Wigan line electrification. That in the end only slipped from Dec to March.

Liverpool to Wigan / Manchester also involved last minute weekend closures to get it done.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Off topic slightly, does anyone know whats happened to "Philip Phlopp"? He seemed to have an inside track on NR and what was happening which helped us understand these schemes. While I am on the subject of contributers thanks are due to "Joseph Locke" for his contributions throughout this and other threads.

I wholeheartedly agree.
Philip Phlopp's insights into the electrification clearance and standards issues are very valuable, and Joseph Locke knows all about the upgrade work on the routes.

 

[QueensCurve]

Possibly not for this thread, but BBC News has just reported that electrification of the Windermere branch will be deferred.

The suggestion is it may go back to 2024.

Disappointing but not too surprising.

 

[snowball]

As I read it, they're not committing to doing it in CP6 before the other decisions on the CP6 programme are taken.

So that may not be a change from the previous position, which was that a date for doing this (and Bolton-Wigan) would be announced when GRIP3 for those schemes is completed, which would be in CP5.

 

[Mordac]

Someone better tell Northern this, they were supposed to use 331s on Northern Connect services there.

EDIT: The report seems to be Tim Farron's account of what the minister told him, so until there's an official announcement I'd take it with a grain of salt.

 

[swt_passenger]

As I read it, they're not committing to doing it in CP6 before the other decisions on the CP6 programme are taken.

So that may not be a change from the previous position, which was that a date for doing this (and Bolton-Wigan) would be announced when GRIP3 for those schemes is completed, which would be in CP5.

The September milestones update still shows NR are only to get to Grip 3 in CP5, with every other phase being shown as TBC.

Strikes me that if there is any indication of CP6 then the BBC simply translate this as "2024", because that looks more extreme than writing "during 2019-2024"

 

[notlob.divad]

ministers refused to commit to having the project completed by 2024

If that is correct it is pushing it even further back is it not i.e. 2024-2029 or not at all.

I've read somewhere today again the suggestion that Northern take on the spare 185s. Looking at all the discussions across multiple threads about these, I think this is now more likely in light of this news regarding the Windermere Branch.

If this was to be delayed, I assume Northern end up with a couple of extra 331s and have suggested before that the Blackpool - Liverpool could be an easy win Northern Connect Service with appropriate rolling stock putting Leyland and St Helens on the Northern Connect network.

Just my thoughts, no insider information

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If that is correct it is pushing it even further back is it not i.e. 2024-2029 or not at all.

That's because nothing is decided for CP6 (2019-24), and they don't want to pre-empt the planning round about to start.
Nor do they yet know what impact the NR CP5 overruns will have.
No point in promising and then having to defer again.
The money for Windermere will have been swallowed by the GW project.

 

[snowball]

So that may not be a change from the previous position, which was that a date for doing this (and Bolton-Wigan) would be announced when GRIP3 for those schemes is completed, which would be in CP5.

Just to clarify, when I said "which would be in CP5" I meant GRIP 3 would be completed in CP5. So I'm agreeing with swt_passenger and LNW-GW Joint.

 

[LDECRexile]

I wholeheartedly agree.
Philip Phlopp's insights into the electrification clearance and standards issues are very valuable, and Joseph Locke knows all about the upgrade work on the routes.

Heartily seconded

Dave

 

[Mordac]

Heartily seconded

Dave

Thirded. I'd wondered a while ago about where Philip Phlopp had gone to, I hope he's alright and that they didn't hit him with the naughty stick for posting here!

 

[ironstone11]

Thirded. I'd wondered a while ago about where Philip Phlopp had gone to, I hope he's alright and that they didn't hit him with the naughty stick for posting here!

Fourthed. I too had wondered what had become of him. I suspect, as suggested above, that he may be on the naughty step.

 

[edwin_m]

Fourthed. I too had wondered what had become of him. I suspect, as suggested above, that he may be on the naughty step.

Or perhaps had enough of making the same point again and again to certain people on here who seem to take no notice?