Blackpool North platform staff

[duffield]

Previous MP left Parliament under something of a cloud. Replacement (= Chris Webb) has only just been elected.

But Blackpool North station isn't in his constituency anyhow. The station is currently in "Blackpool North and Cleveleys", and the relevant MP is Paul Maynard (Conservative). I believe it's considered a breach of etiquette to step on another member's toes by dealing with an issue within their boundaries, even if it's only literally by a few yards in this case.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

But Blackpool North station isn't in his constituency anyhow.

Yep, you're right. Believe there are plans to nudge the Northern boundary of the Blackpool South constituency slightly Northwards so that it would then include Blackpool North station. But this hasn't happened yet.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yep, you're right. Believe there are plans to nudge the Northern boundary of the Blackpool South constituency slightly Northwards so that it would then include Blackpool North station. But this hasn't happened yet.

The next election, whenever it is, will be fought on the new boundaries.

 

[kkong]

Aberdeen has operated this way ever since the ticket barriers were put in (the platforms themselves are shut off with Tensa bariers and woe betide you if you go round or under them). The staff there would certainly give the ones at Blackpool North a run for their money in the rudeness stakes.

Of course at Inverness they just set all the ticket barriers to exit only until about 3 minutes before departure time and shout at you if you dare approach them before then.

At Inverness, don't forget the tensabarriers before you even get to the ticket barriers!

There's no good reason that I can see for them operating the barriers the way they do - it certainly causes confrontation and a surge of people when they do open them.

Aberdeen seem less keen on tensabarriers on the platforms recently, it's been a while since I've seen them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At Inverness, don't forget the tensabarriers before you even get to the ticket barriers!

There's no good reason that I can see for them operating the barriers the way they do - it certainly causes confrontation and a surge of people when they do open them.

It was much better as it was with a member of staff doing boarding checks and a civilised queue forming snaking around the station for each train. The service at Inverness is so sparse and the trains so short that one person can do all that, same as you need to man a gateline. Installing one was the definition of bizarre.

 

[BeijingDave]

But Blackpool North station isn't in his constituency anyhow. The station is currently in "Blackpool North and Cleveleys", and the relevant MP is Paul Maynard (Conservative). I believe it's considered a breach of etiquette to step on another member's toes by dealing with an issue within their boundaries, even if it's only literally by a few yards in this case.

Yes, you are right, in the case of genuinely local issues.

But if we're talking about a transport issue of wider significance, is that really the case? See the many local MPs of surrounding constituencies who comment on the Thelwall Viaduct, despite it being within (I think) Warrington South constituency boundary.

 

[greaterwest]

At Inverness, don't forget the tensabarriers before you even get to the ticket barriers!

There's no good reason that I can see for them operating the barriers the way they do - it certainly causes confrontation and a surge of people when they do open them.

Aberdeen seem less keen on tensabarriers on the platforms recently, it's been a while since I've seen them.

Inverness has always been a horrible experience for boarding trains in my experience. Last time we were held back on the concourse until 3 minutes before departure, then they decided to forfeit the ticket check and open all the gates. Complete chaos as stampede of people rushed for the Edinburgh train, which subsequently departed late. I didn't see any tensabarriers though, everyone was simply waiting in a large crowd in front of the gateline.

 

[jfollows]

Yep, you're right. Believe there are plans to nudge the Northern boundary of the Blackpool South constituency slightly Northwards so that it would then include Blackpool North station. But this hasn't happened yet.

It’s well in the Blackpool South constituency for the next general election.

Interactive Seat Map

The old Blackpool North and Cleveleys constituency becomes Blackpool North and Fleetwood. Fleetwood is detached from Lancaster and attached to Blackpool.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So, Blackpool North (railway station) will be located in Blackpool South (constituency)?! Who'd have thunk it?

 

[Andyh82]

At Blackpool a higher than usual proportion of passengers are likely to be intoxicated and there is likely to be a higher than usual number of unruly children with ineffective parents. Trains probably arrive at the destination with more onboard rubbish that needs cleaning than is normal as well due to the above two groups.

Therefore they obviously think it is best to keep everyone locked in until the last moment

 

[furnessvale]

Therefore they obviously think it is best to keep everyone locked in until the last moment

Which is quite the wrong thing to do. Sufficient time MUST be allowed for orderly loading, rather than a last minute scramble.

If the timetable does not allow for this sort of turnround then the timetable needs altering.

 

[Skymonster]

My experiences are that it isn’t usually a lack of turnround time that causes the problems. The Northern trains arrive, passengers unload and then the guard shuts the doors and goes off [for a break]. Blackpool North staff won’t let outbound passengers onto the platform until the guard is back and has opened the train doors - or at least is almost ready to do so. It seems to me it it is the guard, who often seems to return with only a few minutes to go until departure, that effectively causes the logjam.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My experiences are that it isn’t usually a lack of turnround time that causes the problems. The Northern trains arrive, passengers unload and then the guard shuts the doors and goes off [for a break]. Blackpool North staff won’t let outbound passengers onto the platform until the guard is back and has opened the train doors - or at least is almost ready to do so. It seems to me it it is the guard, who often seems to return with only a few minutes to go until departure, that effectively causes the logjam.

The guard is of course entitled to their break (and indeed required to take it).

Is this then a symptom of Northern diagramming things way too tightly (as well as too much interworking with other stuff and stupid crew changes on Castlefield?)

 

[Bow Fell]

The guard is of course entitled to their break (and indeed required to take it).

Is this then a symptom of Northern diagramming things way too tightly (as well as too much interworking with other stuff and stupid crew changes on Castlefield?)

It depends, if the guard has their break which is the minimum sometime between trains then not much can be done.

If the guard is “fresh on” then again they require time to sign on, read their notices and walk to the unit.

There is some interworking - more so Wigan/Blackpool crews where they arrive on the xx:50 arrival from Manchester Airport then work the xx:04/05 to Lime Street, no break required but if one is late the other will be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is some interworking - more so Wigan/Blackpool crews where they arrive on the xx:50 arrival from Manchester Airport then work the xx:04/05 to Lime Street, no break required but if one is late the other will be.

That's definitely too tight, proves my point I think!

 

[43066]

My experiences are that it isn’t usually a lack of turnround time that causes the problems. The Northern trains arrive, passengers unload and then the guard shuts the doors and goes off [for a break]. Blackpool North staff won’t let outbound passengers onto the platform until the guard is back and has opened the train doors - or at least is almost ready to do so. It seems to me it it is the guard, who often seems to return with only a few minutes to go until departure, that effectively causes the logjam.

If the train is late in they’re obligated to still take their full break, even if it means being late back out. There’s also no obligation to rush when undertaking safety critical activities, however late the train, or however tight the turnaround might be.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

If the train is late in they’re obligated to still take their full break, even if it means being late back out. There’s also no obligation to rush when undertaking safety critical activities, however late the train, or however tight the turnaround might be.

Obligated is probably the wrong word. They're not obligated, although they may be entitled to do so, and take their full break. It's extremely common for traincrew to agree to a shorter/no break, (funnily enough it's never usually a problem at the end of their day on the way home!)

 

[43066]

Obligated is probably the wrong word. They're not obligated, although they may be entitled to do so, and take their full break. It's extremely common for traincrew to agree to a shorter/no break, (funnily enough it's never usually a problem at the end of their day on the way home!)

But there’s a perception, often rightly, that they will be blamed if they have an incident after having agreed to cut short their PNB, hence many will take their full break even if they end finishing work later.

 

[bramling]

If the train is late in they’re obligated to still take their full break, even if it means being late back out. There’s also no obligation to rush when undertaking safety critical activities, however late the train, or however tight the turnaround might be.

This is all something of a side-issue (IMO), as I’ve always found it perplexing that in some locations the practice is to leave trains locked up when no staff are on board, yet in the London area, and some other places, there is generally no issue with leaving trains open. It seems to be very much a Northern England thing, especially the north-west.

 

[43066]

This is all something of a side-issue (IMO), as I’ve always found it perplexing that in some locations the practice is to leave trains locked up when no staff are on board, yet in the London area, and some other places, there is generally no issue with leaving trains open. It seems to be very much a Northern England thing, especially the north-west.

Agreed. The platform staff often do it with ours at Sheffield if we’re there for more than a short period. But even that doesn’t seem to be a consistent policy, and it’s easy to not realise (or just forget they’ve done it) until very shortly before departure time!

 

[bramling]

Agreed. The platform staff often do it with ours at Sheffield if we’re there for more than a short period. But even that doesn’t seem to be a consistent policy, and it’s easy to not realise (or just forget they’ve done it) until very shortly before departure time!

I’ve never really got it. So there’s supposedly all sorts of reasons why it’s terribly risky to have passengers sit inside a 158 for 15 minutes at Manchester Victoria, yet you can have a 12-car EMU in the London area with no staff supervision at all, both at a terminus or during its journey.

One has to say that there’s times one is glad of DOO.

 

[Skymonster]

I don’t by any means blame the guards for having the necessary breaks. The turns I mainly see are the diesel runs from York where the guard invariably shuts up the train on arrival and the guard for the next departure of the unit arrives back only shortly before departure time. And of course the Blackpool North station staff - whether through policy or cussedness - don’t let customers onto the platform if the unit is locked.

 

[MetalMicky]

Why not take covert vids of obnoxious staff and send to Northern in first instance, then follow up with Transport Focus or the Rail Ombudsman or BBC North West Tonight!

Management at Northern should show vids to staff of how LU staff at stations like King’s Cross are able to throughput thousands of customers per shift without treating them all like criminals. LU management would never allow a BPN type scenario to continue.

Coach operators should use their marketing spend on radio advertising to promote their helpful drivers, great value fares and guaranteed seats as their unique selling points.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Coach operators should use their marketing spend on radio advertising to promote their helpful drivers, great value fares and guaranteed seats as their unique selling points.

There are as many unhelpful or even downright snarky coach drivers out there as there are railway staff, even at Blackpool North. Indeed I'd say as a whole railway staff are generally much friendlier and more helpful than service coach drivers, quite a lot of whom would probably be better off switching to HGV given how much they seem to dislike passengers!

 

[daodao]

Why not take covert vids of obnoxious staff and send to Northern in first instance, then follow up with Transport Focus or the Rail Ombudsman or BBC North West Tonight!

Management at Northern should show vids to staff of how LU staff at stations like King’s Cross are able to throughput thousands of customers per shift without treating them all like criminals. LU management would never allow a BPN type scenario to continue.

Coach operators should use their marketing spend on radio advertising to promote their helpful drivers, great value fares and guaranteed seats as their unique selling points.

The days of frequent scheduled coach and express bus services to Blackpool (such as former route X60) are long gone - only a handful of National Express services now run to the resort. There are also far fewer charabancs descending on it in the holiday season.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There are as many unhelpful or even downright snarky coach drivers out there as there are railway staff, even at Blackpool North. Indeed I'd say as a whole railway staff are generally much friendlier and more helpful than service coach drivers, quite a lot of whom would probably be better off switching to HGV given how much they seem to dislike passengers!

There used to be a particularly unhelpful staff member on a blackpool coach park. We used to see it as a challenge to try and raise a smile out of him. Noone ever succeeded.

 

[MetalMicky]

Has anyone on here needed to travel to/from Blackpool North using the Passenger Assist scheme? Does it make any difference to the attitude of the member of station staff in their interaction with that customer?

 

[Starmill]

Obligated is probably the wrong word. They're not obligated, although they may be entitled to do so, and take their full break. It's extremely common for traincrew to agree to a shorter/no break, (funnily enough it's never usually a problem at the end of their day on the way home!)

Is this comment actually intended to be helpful to the discussion? Perhaps you could clarify your intentions here so people don't get the wrong idea. Surely it is very obvious that once one is on one's way home, by definition, their fitness for work can't be questioned...

 

[Bow Fell]

Is this comment actually intended to be helpful to the discussion? Perhaps you could clarify your intentions here so people don't get the wrong idea. Surely it is very obvious that once one is one one's way home, by definition their fitness for work can't be questioned...

They know exactly what they’re implying

Basically traincrew will be awkward on purpose when the jobs up the wall and claim their full PNB (when I say full I mean the bare minimum 20/30 mins anyway) to cause maximum disruption. However, if they were booked a PNB before their last job they would cut their PNB short so that they weren’t delayed.

Obviously, the poster wasn’t going to come out and say that for three reasons.

1. It’s inaccurate.

2. I can’t think of many jobs off the top of my head where you are booked your PNB before your last service. It does happen of course.

3. In my experience anyway that’s not the case at all with traincrew who are flexible regardless. Any good controller would plan their service recovery and delay mitigation around the traincrew having a full break anyway, they would never ask traincrew to cut short their break, if traincrew decide to that’s up to them.

 

[Starmill]

They know exactly what they’re implying

Basically traincrew will be awkward on purpose when the jobs up the wall and claim their full PNB (when I say full I mean the bare minimum 20/30 mins anyway) to cause maximum disruption. However, if they were booked a PNB before their last job they would cut their PNB short so that they weren’t delayed.

Obviously, the poster wasn’t going to come out and say that for three reasons.

1. It’s inaccurate.

2. I can’t think of many jobs off the top of my head where you are booked your PNB before your last service. It does happen of course.

3. In my experience anyway that’s not the case at all with traincrew who are flexible regardless. Any good controller would plan their service recovery and delay mitigation around the traincrew having a full break anyway, they would never ask traincrew to cut short their break, if traincrew decide to that’s up to them.

I always think it's right to give people a proper opportunity to go on the record about their motivation for posting, if they post something provocative, but not totally transparently. If they choose not to take that opportunity, that in itself helps people to come to their own conclusions about the intentions behind the posts doesn't it.

The reality is as you and others have said the fitness for work of train crew usually comes under close scrutiny in the event of an incident, even if the cause of the incident wasn't at all connected to it.