Blackpool Trams News

[Silver Cobra]

The trams have been very busy and very well used since it opened from North station - at all times when i have used it or passed on the bus so maybe its just a few commentators on here who seem to have a problem with the new timetable and extension ( always the case with something new its better to criticise from afar than actually use it but what do we know )

After using the trams for the five days I spent in Blackpool last week, I can say that the service worked fine for me. I did get caught out by the 5/25 minute gap between services from North Pier towards Starr Gate on the first day of my stay, just missing a tram from Fleetwood at North Pier after arriving too late into Blackpool North off an Avanti service for a connection onto a tram at the North Station stop, but otherwise I had no other issues personally. Every day though, I did hear locals complaining about getting on the wrong trams for their intended destinations, often with them boarding trams to North Station when they want Fleetwood/Starr Gate-bound trams.

One other change I noticed during my stay was the policy regarding mobility scooters. It seems now that class 3 scooters are no longer permitted on trams; only class 2. Three times on Wednesday I encountered people trying to board the tram on a class 3 scooter, only to be refused boarding by the conductors (in one instance, after getting into an argument when refusing one particular person boarding the tram, the conductor said that they've had to tell that person several days in a row that they can't board on their class 3 scooter yet they keep trying to).

 

[stuartl]

Has Blackpool not considered ticket machines like Metrolink and Nottingham? They would need an enforcement team as well. I read that Nottingham changed from conductors to TVMs as the former were getting robbed. Meanwhile Midland Metro, as it was called then, went the other way, from TVMs to conductors, and Sheffield has always used conductors.

When Sheffield Supertram first started they used ticket machines at the stops. However they were soon replaced by on board conductors.

 

[Harvey B]

After using the trams for the five days I spent in Blackpool last week, I can say that the service worked fine for me. I did get caught out by the 5/25 minute gap between services from North Pier towards Starr Gate on the first day of my stay, just missing a tram from Fleetwood at North Pier after arriving too late into Blackpool North off an Avanti service for a connection onto a tram at the North Station stop, but otherwise I had no other issues personally. Every day though, I did hear locals complaining about getting on the wrong trams for their intended destinations, often with them boarding trams to North Station when they want Fleetwood/Starr Gate-bound trams.

But what's it going to be like during the Summer Holidays and Illuminations when the Majority of people are wanting to travel Between the Pleasure Beach and Little Bispham? No one is going to want to wait half an hour for the Next Fleetwood Tram to show up. And How is the 5/25 Minute gap going to meet the demands for people wishing to Travel between North Pier and Pleasure Beach?

The current level of service is going to be appalling if they don't intend to run any specials at all.

Would you be happy to see them run this timetable without any specials during the School Holidays and Illuminations?

 

[cool110]

Has Blackpool not considered ticket machines like Metrolink and Nottingham?

Given the previously mentioned issues with no one submitting a bid to provide a platform PIS due to the exposure to sea water, on platform ticket machines would be a complete non-starter.

 

[davehsug]

There seems to be an awful lot of wasted time on layovers at North Station. It's almost usual foor both routes to have a tram there at the same tiime. There must be room for improvement to the timetable when you regularly have trams sitting for over15 minutes at North Station, alongside the regular 10 minutes at Fleetwood. You'd like to hope that the management can get to grips with this over the next few weeks?

 

[Andyh82]

If they’d had their time again I’m not sure the almost complete removal of the heritage trams was a good idea. Back in the day people would use the tram just for a ride even if they didn’t have anywhere to go. Now it’s purely a public transport link, and an inadequate crowded one at that, that is no more ‘fun’ than riding on the Manchester Metrolink

The B fleet Balloons are never out and the heritage fleet is also hardly used. It seems to be about 1 tram a day on poorly advertised limited departures that nobody understands, other than on a very small number of special weekends

There should really be B fleet balloons running Little Bispham to Pleasure Beach on an undefined frequent basis with open boats somehow added to the mix as well.

I’m sure all the extra £3.50 fares from people who are just going for a ride, plus those fares on the as a result less crowded normal trams that wouldn’t normally be collected would quickly add up

 

[Bovverboy]

There seems to be an awful lot of wasted time on layovers at North Station. It's almost usual foor both routes to have a tram there at the same tiime.

The ex-Fleetwood trams are scheduled to arrive at North Station at the same time that the Starr Gate ones are scheduled to depart, i.e. 15 and 45 minutes past the hour. But as we know it doesn't take the scheduled five minutes to get from Talbot Square, so most trips the ex-Fleetwood tram will arrive before the Starr Gate has departed, and that's without considering trams departing Talbot Square early, which they probably do. So, twice an hour there are likely to be two trams parked at North Station together for a few minutes - if there's two there for longer than that, something is going seriously wrong.

There must be room for improvement to the timetable when you regularly have trams sitting for over15 minutes at North Station

The ex-Fleetwood trams are indeed scheduled to lie over at North Station for fifteen minutes, in reality no doubt more. The ex-Starr Gate trams are scheduled to lie over for just six minutes, in reality no doubt more.

alongside the regular 10 minutes at Fleetwood.

The scheduled lie over time at Fleetwood is five minutes, but as the running time from Fishermans Walk is seven minutes, they're likely to get to Fleetwood Ferry early.

You'd like to hope that the management can get to grips with this over the next few weeks?

Refer to my post #278.

Has anyone witnessed a crew change? If so, where did it take place, and in which direction was the tram heading at the time? Did the entire crew change at the same time?
There's an obvious location for crew changes to take place, but it would be nice to have confirmation that they do in fact take place there.

 

[daodao]

If they’d had their time again I’m not sure the almost complete removal of the heritage trams was a good idea. Back in the day people would use the tram just for a ride even if they didn’t have anywhere to go. Now it’s purely a public transport link, and an inadequate crowded one at that, that is no more ‘fun’ than riding on the Manchester Metrolink

The B fleet Balloons are never out and the heritage fleet is also hardly used. It seems to be about 1 tram a day on poorly advertised limited departures that nobody understands, other than on a very small number of special weekends

There should really be B fleet balloons running Little Bispham to Pleasure Beach on an undefined frequent basis with open boats somehow added to the mix as well.

I’m sure all the extra £3.50 fares from people who are just going for a ride, plus those fares on the as a result less crowded normal trams that wouldn’t normally be collected would quickly add up

The pre-war vintage trams are too old and worn out for regular intensive service, and I believe there is also a restriction on how many days per year the B fleet balloons are permitted to operate on regular services due to disability regulations. However, it should be possible for an additional service to operate using the Flexity2 trams between Bispham and Pleasure Beach during peak periods, e.g. 1000-1800 in late July/August over the summer holidays, and 1400-2200 from the start of the Illuminations to the end of the Autumn half-term holiday. A half-hourly service on this route would require 2 trams, a 15 minute service would require 4 trams.

 

[davehsug]

The ex-Fleetwood trams are scheduled to arrive at North Station at the same time that the Starr Gate ones are scheduled to depart, i.e. 15 and 45 minutes past the hour. But as we know it doesn't take the scheduled five minutes to get from Talbot Square, so most trips the ex-Fleetwood tram will arrive before the Starr Gate has departed, and that's without considering trams departing Talbot Square early, which they probably do. So, twice an hour there are likely to be two trams parked at North Station together for a few minutes - if there's two there for longer than that, something is going seriously wrong.

The ex-Fleetwood trams are indeed scheduled to lie over at North Station for fifteen minutes, in reality no doubt more. The ex-Starr Gate trams are scheduled to lie over for just six minutes, in reality no doubt more.

The scheduled lie over time at Fleetwood is five minutes, but as the running time from Fishermans Walk is seven minutes, they're likely to get to Fleetwood Ferry early.

Refer to my post #278.

Has anyone witnessed a crew change? If so, where did it take place, and in which direction was the tram heading at the time? Did the entire crew change at the same time?
There's an obvious location for crew changes to take place, but it would be nice to have confirmation that they do in fact take place there.

I saw many crew changes last week. For T2 and T3 it's Talbot Square, with the crew coming to/from breaks at Market Street like the bus drivers. Obviously for T1, it's Starr Gate.

 

[Blackpool boy]

I don't have a problem with the Extension itself. The problem I have is with the fact that they cut every 2nd Starr Gate to Fleetwood Service. It wouldn't have been so bad if they interworked both T2 and T3 services, Or if they made it a Pleasure Beach to Little Bispham service which goes via North Station. I've explained the reasoning why here:

Its not perfect by any means but it is what it is and it seemingly works and thats generally all that matters. Any major timetable improvements will only come about in a major way if they buy more trams

 

[Bovverboy]

I saw many crew changes last week. For T2 and T3 it's Talbot Square, with the crew coming to/from breaks at Market Street like the bus drivers. Obviously for T1, it's Starr Gate.

But why 'obviously'? I would have thought the obvious point for changeovers on the T1 would have been North Pier (Southbound), which is actually closer to the crew quarters on Market Street than even Talbot Square.
If Starr Gate is the obvious point for crew changes on the T1 would it not also be the obvious point on T2?

 

[davehsug]

But why 'obviously'? I would have thought the obvious point for changeovers on the T1 would have been North Pier (Southbound), which is actually closer to the crew quarters on Market Street than even Talbot Square.
If Starr Gate is the obvious point for crew changes on the T1 would it not also be the obvious point on T2?

I wouldn't know. I assume staff park at Starr Gate and that there is a staff canteen and rest facilities? Maybe they change at both for T2? Is it important?

 

[Bovverboy]

I wouldn't know. I assume staff park at Starr Gate and that there is a staff canteen and rest facilities? Maybe they change at both for T2? Is it important?

Yes.

 

[Harvey B]

Its not perfect by any means but it is what it is and it seemingly works and thats generally all that matters.

Again. I think you're underestimating the demand for the trams during the Summer and during the Traditional Illuninations season. Many people won't want to wait half an hour for the next T1 tram to show up. How else does someone get directly from South Pier to Cabin without waiting half an hour for the next T1 to Fleetwood?

The 5/25 Minute Gap on the Stops between North Pier and Starr Gate, is also apalling. No one would want to wait 25 minutes between trams, especially during the Illuminations and the Summer Holidays.

So in that sense, the Service will not work if they don't put on any additonal Specials to cope with the demand

Any major timetable improvements will only come about in a major way if they buy more trams

This is a Blatant lie. Blackpool Council have got a fleet of 18 Flexity 2 Trams, and only 11 Trams are needed for the current standard timetable.

They could in Theory, run a timetable that requires 15 or 16 Trams to be run but for one reason or another they either can't do that because they don't have enough Staff (or enough Budget to employ enough staff) or they're just simply choosing not to run any additional Services

Why would you need to order any additonal Trams at all when there's 7 Trams sitting in Depot and doing nothing each and every day?

 

[Blackpool boy]

Again. I think you're underestimating the demand for the trams during the Summer and during the Traditional Illuninations season. Many people won't want to wait half an hour for the next T1 tram to show up. How else does someone get directly from South Pier to Cabin without waiting half an hour for the next T1 to Fleetwood?

The 5/25 Minute Gap on the Stops between North Pier and Starr Gate, is also apalling. No one would want to wait 25 minutes between trams, especially during the Illuminations and the Summer Holidays.

So in that sense, the Service will not work if they don't put on any additonal Specials to cope with the demand

This is a Blatant lie. Blackpool Council have got a fleet of 18 Flexity 2 Trams, and only 11 Trams are needed for the current standard timetable.

They could in Theory, run a timetable that requires 15 or 16 Trams to be run but for one reason or another they either can't do that because they don't have enough Staff (or enough Budget to employ enough staff) or they're just simply choosing not to run any additional Services

Why would you need to order any additonal Trams at all when there's 7 Trams sitting in Depot and doing nothing each and every day?

Firstly i would appreciate it if you didn't call me a liar. Secondly i live here, I know all about summer and illumination traffic and how it impacts the whole of the town ( not just on the trams) and honestly - you don't know what people may or may not wait for you are just speculating without anything to back it up apart from what you think

And lets be honest - none of us know what the state the current fleet is in when it comes to their exams - and have the issues with star gate depot caused any disruption to the planned maintenance of the fleet and you cant just run the max number of the fleet like you claim because how else would they get in for their exams? Sorry 'sitting there doing nothing each and every day'

The timetable isn't perfect and I'm sure there will be some work to do with it in future however and ill repeat this, it could be much better with extra trams on the system however there is no money for them

 

[Harvey B]

Firstly i would appreciate it if you didn't call me a liar. Secondly i live here, I know all about summer and illumination traffic and how it impacts the whole of the town ( not just on the trams) and honestly - you don't know what people may or may not wait for you are just speculating without anything to back it up apart from what you think

You are the one who didn't take into account about how many trams Blackpool Transport has (18 Trams) compared to how many trams the current standard service requires (11 Trams) so of course I'm going to point that out.

They don't need to buy any additional Trams to increase the frequency of services on the Promande, they have 7 Trams sitting empty in the Depot.

And lets be honest - none of us know what the state the current fleet is in when it comes to their exams - and have the issues with star gate depot caused any disruption to the planned maintenance of the fleet and you cant just run the max number of the fleet like you claim because how else would they get in for their exams? Sorry 'sitting there doing nothing each and every day'

I'm not suggesting that all 18 Trams should be out and running, but they should be using as much of the Fleet as they Possibily can during the busiest times of year, and having over a 3rd of the fleet sat in the depot is the least efficient way of doing it.

Even if you do account for exams and routine servicing, etc. I'm pretty certain that they'd only be working on a Maximum of Two Trams at any given time so that leaves 5 Trams sat in Starr Gate Depot all day doing absolutely nothing. 4 of those 5 trams could be put into good use by running additonal Specials between Pleasure Beach.

(And This isn't taking the number of B fleet Trams into consideration either)

The timetable isn't perfect and I'm sure there will be some work to do with it in future however and ill repeat this, it could be much better with extra trams on the system however there is no money for them

If money is the Issue, then why can't Blackpool Council just simply have a look at the operating budget for the LRT system and adjust it accordingly?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Some people just won’t listen and are still bleating the same points, and I have no intention of repeating the points I’ve already made that refute this (it’s good to see others now asking similar questions to me, though).

However, I will add (repeat) that there currently aren’t 18 Flexities available for service, with some (no I won’t say how many) stopped long term. 11 for service with some for specials and maintenance cover makes sense.

Even ten days on it’s clear that, whilst there are niggles as would be expected, the timetable isn’t the calamity that some individuals (who don’t seem to have actually used the service yet) proclaimed. Quelle surprise.

 

[Sunil_P]

Definitely, if you did:
T2 13:45 to Tower (arrival ~13:53)
T2 ~14:00 to North Station (Arrival 14:09)
T3 14:30 to Bispham* (arrival 14:46)
T3 14:59 to Talbot Square (arrival 15:10) {North station at 15:15}
and that's all the track done with an hour to spare
There's probably a quicker way by walking between stops

* could use Pleasant St instead of Bispham, but it probably wouldn't make the connection either way.
Any estimated (~) times are based on this timetable which only has a few stops

Thanks, almost did the above, but was half an hour late arriving due to Avanti being late leaving London on Wednesday!

So I did:

T2 14.15 North Station to Tower
T2 14.30 to Talbot Square, walked to North Station
T3 15.00 North Station to Pleasant Street
T3 ~15.37 Pleasant Street to North Station (arr. 15.45).

Also, just realised I should have reprised T1 Tower to Pleasant Street in order to take pics of the new junctions from the tram heading N/S, but it was a very low priority.

 

[Harvey B]

However, I will add (repeat) that there currently aren’t 18 Flexities available for service, with some (no I won’t say how many) stopped long term. 11 for service with some for specials and maintenance cover makes sense.

Firstly How do you know that some of the Flexities have been stopped long Term?

Secondly, How many have been stopped Long Term? Why did they get stopped in the first place? And Will they ever be put back into service again?

 

[Tramfan]

Only 005 hasn't been out since the extension opened

 

[cool110]

Only 005 hasn't been out since the extension opened

That one had a motor removed when I saw it on the depot tour before opening day.

 

[Harvey B]

Only 005 hasn't been out since the extension opened

That one had a motor removed when I saw it on the depot tour before opening day.

View attachment 160758

So the other 17 Trams have been out in the last week?

 

[Tramfan]

So the other 17 Trams have been out in the last week?

Yes they have, although i've not seen 003 for a few days now either, but it was certainly out at the start of last week

 

[Sunil_P]

Blackpool North tram stop as seen on Wednesday 19th:

 

[Harvey B]

Yes they have, although i've not seen 003 for a few days now either, but it was certainly out at the start of last week

Okay, Thank you

Only 005 hasn't been out since the extension opened

Has 005 even been in Service this year? Part of me thinks that it hasn't been in service at all since December?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Firstly How do you know that some of the Flexities have been stopped long Term?

Secondly, How many have been stopped Long Term? Why did they get stopped in the first place? And Will they ever be put back into service again?

Have you used the extension since it’s opened?

 

[Harvey B]

Have you used the extension since it’s opened?

Firstly, No I haven't as I haven't visited Blackpool since it opened.

Secondly, can you answer my questions please

 

[ValleyLines142]

The trams have been very busy and very well used since it opened from North station - at all times when i have used it or passed on the bus so maybe its just a few commentators on here who seem to have a problem with the new timetable and extension ( always the case with something new its better to criticise from afar than actually use it but what do we know )

It's more so the fact that BT think this level of service is acceptable in the summer, especially now the weather is getting nice.

The 5/25 minute headway is shambolic. When I was in Blackpool last week I checked the tram times and if I had more than 15 minutes wait I would go into Coral Island or something just to kill time. The fact of the matter is, I shouldn't have to do that.

Also trams are leaving up to two minutes early and in some cases, leaving timing points early.

The extension to the station is great. I stay on Dickson Road and to Fleetwood on Market day I boarded from the station to ensure I got a seat as it's the first stop. In that sense, the extension is a welcome addition. But something seriously needs to give; whether that's additional Pleasure Beach to Bispham services or bringing out a couple of the oldies.

I'm back again in a week. I'll report my observations.

 

[Bovverboy]

Also trams are leaving up to two minutes early and in some cases, leaving timing points early.

All operators (of buses or trams) make it clear that timings given for intermediate points (i.e. those other than the principal timing points) are estimates only and that crews are under no instruction to wait time at those points. You would think, though, that the estimated times for intermediate stops would be such that there would be limited scope for a vehicle passing one of those stops prior to the estimated times.
I get the feeling that the timetable is unduly slack, and, given that the scheduled time for Starr Gate to Fleetwood has recently been increased from 58 minutes to 65, slack is what it might be expected to be.
There seem to be some huge stretches without a timing point (the greatest being Cleveleys to/from Fishermans Walk, 16 minutes) and there are minor variations in scheduled times in opposite directions and between services.

 

[Alvin_official]

Staff have been given feedback about the current timetable being poor from what I've been hearing the last few days.