Blackpool Trams News

[Kite159]

The taxi drivers will still be busy with passengers travelling from North station to waterfront hotels, especially if someone arrives and has just missed a Fleetwood tram and has a 30 minute* wait. Not exactly turn up and go

(* Although unless it's changed since my last visit to Blackpool the tram stops have no real time departure information and the trams don't track on Google maps)

 

[stadler]

I just noticed the new timetable has now been published which can be downloaded as a PDF file at the bottom of this page:

Tram - Fleetwood to Starr Gate

Timetable for Tram - Fleetwood to Starr Gate

www.blackpooltransport.com

I have also attached the timetable PDF file too.

So the three routes will be as follows:

• T1 - Fleetwood Ferry to Starr Gate
• T2 - Fleetwood Ferry to Blackpool North
• T3 - Blackpool North to Starr Gate

This is also the only tram routes in the UK to use numbers now that Croydon seems to have gotten rid of their numbering except for internal purposes.

Unfortunately the new timetable means the end of an even every fifteen minutes timetable. Also for those travelling along the seafront the timetable is reduced to every thirty minutes unless you change trams at Blackpool North station.

The new timetable means the frequency along the route is as follows:

Going in the Northbound direction the timetable is an even every fifteen minutes between Starr Gate and the Town Centre and also an even every fifteen minutes between the Town Centre and Fleetwood Ferry too. So at least in this direction the same frequency has been kept.

Going in the Southbound direction the timetable is an even every fifteen minutes between Fleetwood Ferry and the Town Centre but unfortunately an uneven frequency on the Town Centre to Starr Gate section. On this section trams will run five minutes apart. So you will a 5 minute gap then a 25 minute gap then a 5 minute gap then a 25 minute gap etc. So it is a shame an even fifteen minute frequency was not kept on this section.

The biggest inconvenience will be for passengers travelling along the seafront and crossing the town centre. There will now only be a tram every thirty minutes instead of every fifteen minutes.

Changing trams at Blackpool North does not really work well:

In the Northbound direction the trams artive at xx:09 and xx:39 and depart at xx:00 and xx:30 meaning you have a 21 minute wait to continue your journey.

In the Southbound direction trams arrive at xx:15 and xx:45 and depart at xx:15 and xx:45 giving a zero minute connection. I doubt a zero minute connection will work. So you will have a 30 minute wait to continue your journey.

Changing at Blackpool North simply does not work well. So this means passengers travelling along the coast will be greatly inconvenienced by having their frequency halved. The only people that will benefit from these changes are railway passengers travelling to or from the station.

I can see these changes being unpopular with the passengers. Although at least i believe bus route 1 basically follows the tram route. I see bus route 1 is also being diverted to serve Blackpool North station when the tram opens. So that will always be an alternative to take. But it is a shame that the tram frequency can not be increased.

 

[Harvey B]

Now that the Edinburgh extension to Newhaven is open the tram requirement is 25 out of a fleet of 27 with a 7minute frequency each day. A sensible use of resources compared to Blackpool.

The problem is, they knew that this day would be coming for at least 10 years (if not, longer). So why couldn't they come up with a plan to increase the frequency of the trams?

A more sensible approach would have been to increase the timetable to one that requires no less than 15 trams to operate it.

If I were running it I'd keep T1 but merge T2 and T3 together so you get a single combined service which goes via North Station.

Second of all, I'd increase the minimum output from 11 no less than 15 Trams.

I'd also bring in a new "T3" running between Pleasure Beach and Cleveleys ( Avoidong North Station), which would require 3x B and 2x Flexities.

You shouldn't be waiting no more than 7 minutes for a Tram to show up during peak season

 

[AndrewE]

The problem is, they knew that this day would be coming for at least 10 years (if not, longer). So why couldn't they come up with a plan to increase the frequency of the trams?

A more sensible approach would have been to increase the timetable to one that requires no less than 15 trams to operate it.

If I were running it I'd keep T1 but merge T2 and T3 together so you get a single combined service which goes via North Station.

Second of all, I'd increase the minimum output from 11 no less than 15 Trams.

I'd also bring in a new "T3" running between Pleasure Beach and Cleveleys ( Avoidong North Station), which would require 3x B and 2x Flexities.

You shouldn't be waiting no more than 7 minutes for a Tram to show up during peak season

I agree that would all be nice to have, but we (you and I) don't have to cope with the budget they have to work with. Resourcing public transport to accommodate peak flows can never be cost-effective, as that capacity sits idle off-peak.

I'm surprised that they don't go back to the old system of taking on student conductors for the summer (and into the Illuminations?) though. A sensible manning policy would see full-time conductors stepping up to be drivers in the summer (for Higher Grade Duty payments) and reverting to conductors to keep them emplyed through the winter.

 

[davehsug]

I agree that would all be nice to have, but we (you and I) don't have to cope with the budget they have to work with. Resourcing public transport to accommodate peak flows can never be cost-effective, as that capacity sits idle off-peak.

I'm surprised that they don't go back to the old system of taking on student conductors for the summer (and into the Illuminations?) though. A sensible manning policy would see full-time conductors stepping up to be drivers in the summer (for Higher Grade Duty payments) and reverting to conductors to keep them emplyed through the winter.

I understand that of course, but Blackpool is still the country's most popular seaside resort and the trams have always been the way that Blackpool moved people around. The present management have completely abdicted any responsibility for this. We're left with an infrequent and inadequate service, which may serve the local population well in winter months, but will greatly inconvenience and annoy visitors. How on earth will people move around during illumination weekends, when the main demand will cross North Pier? The last hope is that they might run all-day specials throughout the season to help, but I'm losing faith.

 

[Harvey B]

I understand that of course, but Blackpool is still the country's most popular seaside resort and the trams have always been the way that Blackpool moved people around. The present management have completely abdicted any responsibility for this. We're left with an infrequent and inadequate service, which may serve the local population well in winter months, but will greatly inconvenience and annoy visitors. How on earth will people move around during illumination weekends, when the main demand will cross North Pier? The last hope is that they might run all-day specials throughout the season to help, but I'm losing faith.

I Wouldn't be opposed if they'd have just kept a 15 minute frequency between Starr Gate and Fleetwood but just made every other service go via North Station and then continuing on to Fleetwood (or Vice Versa) to North Station. Having the trams terminate at North Station to go back in the direction they came from is a ludicrous idea, Especially at the busiest time of year for Blackpool.

As noted above, Splitting the Service in half has also left anywhere south of North Station with a 25/5 minute split meaning it's practically impossible to get a tram from North Pier to Starr Gate.

Unrelated subject but does anyone know when Blackpool Transport last ran a 10 minute timetabled frequency on the Trams?

 

[Leedsbusman]

I Wouldn't be opposed if they'd have just kept a 15 minute frequency between Starr Gate and Fleetwood but just made every other service go via North Station and then continuing on to Fleetwood (or Vice Versa) to North Station. Having the trams terminate at North Station to go back in the direction they came from is a ludicrous idea, Especially at the busiest time of year for Blackpool.

As noted above, Splitting the Service in half has also left anywhere south of North Station with a 25/5 minute split meaning it's practically impossible to get a tram from North Pier to Starr Gate.

Unrelated subject but does anyone know when Blackpool Transport last ran a 10 minute timetabled frequency on the Trams?

trouble is though if trams start 15 mins apart sending alternate ones to North Station would make them 25/5 apart!

 

[stadler]

Why not just send all trams via Blackpool North station. Therefore you would have an even every fifteen minute service running Starr Gate - Blackpool North - Fleetwood Ferry and running Fleetwood Ferry - Blackpool North - Starr Gate with all stops served every fifteen minutes in each direction. This would only add maybe five to ten minutes to the overall journey time and would result in a better service for all. Therefore every staion would have a nice even every fifteen minute frequency in each direction and it would retain a fifteen minute frequency along the whole entire route for passengers travelling the full length. I honestly think sending all trams via Blackpool North station would be the best solution.

 

[Bovverboy]

I just noticed the new timetable has now been published which can be downloaded as a PDF file at the bottom of this page:

Tram - Fleetwood to Starr Gate

Timetable for Tram - Fleetwood to Starr Gate

www.blackpooltransport.com

I have also attached the timetable PDF file too.

So the three routes will be as follows:

• T1 - Fleetwood Ferry to Starr Gate
• T2 - Fleetwood Ferry to Blackpool North
• T3 - Blackpool North to Starr Gate

This is also the only tram routes in the UK to use numbers now that Croydon seems to have gotten rid of their numbering except for internal purposes.

Unfortunately the new timetable means the end of an even every fifteen minutes timetable. Also for those travelling along the seafront the timetable is reduced to every thirty minutes unless you change trams at Blackpool North station.

The new timetable means the frequency along the route is as follows:

Going in the Northbound direction the timetable is an even every fifteen minutes between Starr Gate and the Town Centre and also an even every fifteen minutes between the Town Centre and Fleetwood Ferry too. So at least in this direction the same frequency has been kept.

Going in the Southbound direction the timetable is an even every fifteen minutes between Fleetwood Ferry and the Town Centre but unfortunately an uneven frequency on the Town Centre to Starr Gate section. On this section trams will run five minutes apart. So you will a 5 minute gap then a 25 minute gap then a 5 minute gap then a 25 minute gap etc. So it is a shame an even fifteen minute frequency was not kept on this section.

The biggest inconvenience will be for passengers travelling along the seafront and crossing the town centre. There will now only be a tram every thirty minutes instead of every fifteen minutes.

Changing trams at Blackpool North does not really work well:

In the Northbound direction the trams artive at xx:09 and xx:39 and depart at xx:00 and xx:30 meaning you have a 21 minute wait to continue your journey.

In the Southbound direction trams arrive at xx:15 and xx:45 and depart at xx:15 and xx:45 giving a zero minute connection. I doubt a zero minute connection will work. So you will have a 30 minute wait to continue your journey.

Changing at Blackpool North simply does not work well. So this means passengers travelling along the coast will be greatly inconvenienced by having their frequency halved. The only people that will benefit from these changes are railway passengers travelling to or from the station.

I can see these changes being unpopular with the passengers. Although at least i believe bus route 1 basically follows the tram route. I see bus route 1 is also being diverted to serve Blackpool North station when the tram opens. So that will always be an alternative to take. But it is a shame that the tram frequency can not be increased.

According to the timetable, T2 is going to be North Station to Starr Gate, and T3 Fleetwood to North Station. The end to end journey time Fleetwood to Starr Gate ('T1') seems to be being increased from 58 minutes to 65.
A fifteen minute headway on the Talbot Square to Starr Gate section could be created by having the fifteen minute layover at Fleetwood rather than North Station (T3) or Starr Gate (T1).
On the impending timetable there is potential for changes at Talbot Square, although Northbound the connection is tight. If missed, there would still be the option of waiting 15 minutes for the ex-Starr Gate tram, though.
I can't help but think that there are some errors in the published timetable. A few 'highlights'.
1) There is an 0855 journey shown, Fleetwood to North Station, but no corresponding arrival. It isn't inconceivable, of course, that a tram is to come out of service from Starr Gate, but it seems unlikely at that time of day. Furthermore there is a 0920 journey shown, Starr Gate to North Station, arrival 0944, in time to work 1000 to Fleetwood, so maybe the 0855 Fleetwood to North Station isn't really going to exist at all.
2) The tram which would be expected to operate 2115 North Station to Starr Gate seems to drop back to 2128 for no obvious reason. This means it would not get to Starr Gate in time to work 2145 Starr Gate to North Station. This latter journey could be operated by the 2145 arrival ex-Fleetwood, but that appears to be uncharacteristically tight, so I doubt that will be the situation.
3) There is an 'extra' journey shown, 2125 Starr Gate to North Station, with no corresponding arrival. Tram out of depot? Seems unlikely, but you never know. Looks to come back as the 2158 ex-North Station, arrival at Starr Gate 2223. So it could do the 2230 Fleetwood, with the 2215 arrival going onto North Stations for two trips. But suspiciously complicated.
4) There is a 2255 journey shown, Fleetwood to Starr Gate, and also a Fleetwood to North Station, with only one suitable arrival. I think the 2255 Fleetwood to Starr Gate will prove to be the actual journey.

EDIT: Some of the above is superseded by information contained in posts 387, 388, and 392.

 

[philthetube]

I agree that would all be nice to have, but we (you and I) don't have to cope with the budget they have to work with. Resourcing public transport to accommodate peak flows can never be cost-effective, as that capacity sits idle off-peak.

Peak flows in Blackpool are 10 am to 7pm seven days a week from late May bank holiday to the end of October,

September and October peak extends to 9 pm

 

[AndrewE]

Peak flows in Blackpool are 10 am to 7pm seven days a week from late May bank holiday to the end of October, September and October peak extends to 9 pm

good points, but it doesn't get away from the seasonal demand. And the implications of the LA's budget deficit. Let's not forget that (tourists apart) it is one of the most deprived and unhealthy areas in England with all the costs which follow on from that.

 

[Bovverboy]

On the impending timetable there is potential for changes at Talbot Square, although Northbound the connection is tight. If missed, there would still be the option of waiting 15 minutes for the ex-Starr Gate tram, though.

Google Street View isn't quite up to date, so I can't tell for sure where the stops are. So it may be that there is only limited scope for swapping between trams at North Pier/Talbot Square.

 

[markymark2000]

good points, but it doesn't get away from the seasonal demand. And the implications of the LA's budget deficit. Let's not forget that (tourists apart) it is one of the most deprived and unhealthy areas in England with all the costs which follow on from that.

1. It would maybe help if Blackpool Transport didn't insist on having the 1 service which directly duplicates the tram line. Anyone using the 1 should be using the tram or another bus service. Cut the 1, that saves 2 buses and so saves tens of thousands of pounds which can instead go into the tram network.
2. A bigger push for off tram ticketing using the app would reduce the amount of onboard sales which then means onboard staff can get through more people, that should speed up the amount of tickets sold per journey. Also on crush loaded trams it would mean there is more people with tickets onboard those trams rather than it being chancers paying when challenged knowing full well the inspectors can't get to them.
3. Remove free trams for pass holders and instead opt for a small payment from pass holders.

There are options that the LA could opt to increase revenue without increasing costs. I am sure that others may know of other savings which could be made or know of other ways to increase revenue without a huge upfront cost.

Google Street View isn't quite up to date, so I can't tell for sure where the stops are. So it may be that there is only limited scope for swapping between trams at North Pier/Talbot Square.

About 150 metres actual walking distance but there are 2 traffic light crossings and you need to cross the tram tracks so it depends how quickly you can do all that, safely.

 

[davehsug]

I'm a little surprised that the Gazette hasn't picked up on any of this yet. Maybe hoteliers and companies generally, aren't aware of the specifics and their implications?

 

[Bovverboy]

The taxi drivers will still be busy with passengers travelling from North station to waterfront hotels, especially if someone arrives and has just missed a Fleetwood tram and has a 30 minute* wait. Not exactly turn up and go.

I don't think the tram service will cut much ice with holidaymakers arriving at North Station, especially with luggage. They are likely to continue doing what they've always done, i.e. get a taxi. A further complication is that they would be at risk of contravening Blackpool Transport's conditions of carriage, which say, amongst other things:
'Luggage must be safely stored away to not cause an obstruction to the main gangway, or any emergency exit'.
I can't remember how much provision there is for luggage on Blackpool trams, but I imagine it will be quite limited.

1) There is an 0855 journey shown, Fleetwood to North Station, but no corresponding arrival. It isn't inconceivable, of course, that a tram is to come out of service from Starr Gate, but it seems unlikely at that time of day. Furthermore there is a 0920 journey shown, Starr Gate to North Station, arrival 0944, in time to work 1000 to Fleetwood, so maybe the 0855 Fleetwood to North Station isn't really going to exist at all.
4) There is a 2255 journey shown, Fleetwood to Starr Gate, and also a Fleetwood to North Station, with only one suitable arrival. I think the 2255 Fleetwood to Starr Gate will prove to be the actual journey.

On the interactive version of the timetable, there is no mention of either an 0855 or 2255 Fleetwood to North Station.

 

[Towers]

A good friend of mine in the area advises that Blackpool cabbies have taken it upon themselves to block the tramlines into North Station this morning, presumably in protest. Police in attendance and recovery vehicles now on site!

How depressing to see a complete inability/unwillingness to operate the tramway so as to recognise demand, the existing timetable was poor but it now appears the system will be verging on unuseable for many. Fair points raised about budget, but how much was spent on the extension? You really cannot sink all those millions into building something only to render the service unuseable ‘because money’! Irrelevant I realise, but back in the day the tramway provided exactly the sort of turn and up go system that is needed along the prom, and it catered well for the market traffic too. Times change of course, but how sad that after so much investment it’s now verging on being a pointless operation; what a waste.

 

[David M]

Not sure I understand what the taxi drivers are complaining about - is it simply that you can now catch a tram at Blackpool North?

 

[JJmoogle]

Not sure I understand what the taxi drivers are complaining about - is it simply that you can now catch a tram at Blackpool North?

It's a protest against Blackpool council allowing Uber/Out of town operators to get away with flouting a bunch of rules. It lasted 2 hours and stopped about 10 minutes ago but they managed to cause a fair bit of disruption

 

[Harvey B]

How depressing to see a complete inability/unwillingness to operate the tramway so as to recognise demand, the existing timetable was poor but it now appears the system will be verging on unuseable for many. Fair points raised about budget, but how much was spent on the extension? You really cannot sink all those millions into building something only to render the service unuseable ‘because money’! Irrelevant I realise, but back in the day the tramway provided exactly the sort of turn and up go system that is needed along the prom, and it catered well for the market traffic too. Times change of course, but how sad that after so much investment it’s now verging on being a pointless operation; what a waste.

I do agree. The decision to reduce to a 15 minute frequency was an appalling one. It served it purpose during the covid times but we're like 3/4 years on from covid now and they were still using it up until this week.

The new timetable is even more appalling. On the section between North Pier and Starr Gate, you are left with a 25 minute gap between trams, followed by a 5 minute gap

The current service also requires only 11 trams out of a possible 18 trams so how will they fill the rest of the gaps between North Pier and Starr Gate?

Are they intending on running Specials on a daily basis between 10am and 7pm? (Which extends to 9/10pm during the Illuminations)

I wonder how many complaints Blackpool transport will get in the next few weeks?

 

[Bovverboy]

Here's a clip of Blackpool Transport MD Jane Cole speaking at today's launch of the North Station link. It's missable, even if you can hear what she's saying above the sound of the brass band.

MSN

 

[Harvey B]

I'm starting to feel that Blackpool transport should start to roll out Next Tram departure boards at all of their stops. Something that wouldn't have been necesarry if direct trams to Fleetwood weren't cut to every 30 mins.

A cut from every 15 to every 20 wouldn't have been that bad, and you could have filled it in with services going to and from North Station, Making a 10 minute peak service

 

[davehsug]

Well, I've taken the plunge and booked a few days in Blackpool from Sunday. This isn't something I could miss after all these years of being a Blackpool enthusiast. I'll try to give an unbiased assessment of what I find during the week....assuming I can ever get on a tram back to the hotel .

 

[Towers]

Is there still a policy within BT of buses being no older than five years?

This article:

Blackpool Transport announce the purchase of 19 new buses for 2020

Blackpool Transport have announced a deal to purchase 19 buses from Alexander Dennis.

www.blackpooltransport.com

is from 2019 and mentions this policy, as well how BT were “reversing decline”.

Quote from the article:

“The sustained investment has been part of a strategy to ensure that no bus in our fleet is older than five years. With the first replacement cycle complete, discussions have begun about a continuation of the programme in order to maintain the high standards now achieved.

Jane Cole, Managing Director of Blackpool Transport, says: “Blackpool Transport has its focus on the concept of customer experience. Our business plan has stopped a decade of customer ridership decline and Blackpool is ready to thrive.”

One would hope that, if there are no funds to run a tram service that is vaguely useful, money isn’t still being poured into replacing nearly new buses for no apparent reason?

 

[Tramfan]

As recently as 2022(?) they got rid of some of the earliest Enviro 400s which were new in 2016, though they do still have some 2015 Citaros

 

[pokemonsuper9]

they got rid of some of the earliest Enviro 400s which were new in 2016,

That explains how I ended up surprised seeing them in Vision Bus' care.

Replacing the entire fleet every 5 years feels like such a waste of resources that could be spent on the trams, I'd imagine they could easily be kept for 10.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That explains how I ended up surprised seeing them in Vision Bus' care.

Replacing the entire fleet every 5 years feels like such a waste of resources that could be spent on the trams, I'd imagine they could easily be kept for 10.

Are there any recent passenger annual figures for both Blackpool Transport tram and bus use?

 

[markymark2000]

Are there any recent passenger annual figures for both Blackpool Transport tram and bus use?

The DFT has got stats for Blackpool Trams in their 'Light rail and tram statistics, England: year ending March 2023' statistics. These do work by financial years and we don't yet have data for the 2023-24 financial year (due for release around September). For the 2022-23 financial year though, Blackpool carried 4,900,000 passengers (4.9 million).

There was an article released yesterday as well conveniently whereby Blackpool Gazette reported that in the 2023/24 financial year that Blackpool Transport buses carried 6.1 million passengers. Only down side is they haven't said where they got these figures from.

with the latest figures showing passenger numbers in Blackpool were up by three per cent in 2023/24 compared to the previous year to 6.5 million in total. The vast majority (6.1 million) used Blackpool Transport services.

Not sure if this helps as they are for different financial years but they are the latest stats on the usage.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Is there still a policy within BT of buses being no older than five years?

This article:

Blackpool Transport announce the purchase of 19 new buses for 2020

Blackpool Transport have announced a deal to purchase 19 buses from Alexander Dennis.

www.blackpooltransport.com

is from 2019 and mentions this policy, as well how BT were “reversing decline”.

Quote from the article:

“The sustained investment has been part of a strategy to ensure that no bus in our fleet is older than five years. With the first replacement cycle complete, discussions have begun about a continuation of the programme in order to maintain the high standards now achieved.

Jane Cole, Managing Director of Blackpool Transport, says: “Blackpool Transport has its focus on the concept of customer experience. Our business plan has stopped a decade of customer ridership decline and Blackpool is ready to thrive.”

One would hope that, if there are no funds to run a tram service that is vaguely useful, money isn’t still being poured into replacing nearly new buses for no apparent reason?

well there are 90 new electric buses on order for 2025 which will replace most of the current fleet.
The ‘no more than five years’ plan was quietly dropped, perhaps because of the electric bus plan. Currently the newest bus is now over four years old.
Most date from 2017-20 other than the Citaros of 2015.

 

[Towers]

well there are 90 new electric buses on order for 2025 which will replace most of the current fleet.
The ‘no more than five years’ plan was quietly dropped, perhaps because of the electric bus plan. Currently the newest bus is now over four years old.
Most date from 2017-20 other than the Citaros of 2015.

The new electrics are presumably being government funded, however? With ZEBRA or whatever it is?

 

[Harvey B]

I'm starting to feel that Blackpool transport should start to roll out Next Tram departure boards at all of their stops. Something that wouldn't have been necesarry if direct trams to Fleetwood weren't cut to every 30 mins.

A cut from every 15 to every 20 wouldn't have been that bad, and you could have filled it in with services going to and from North Station, Making a 10 minute peak service

The following should have been the Standard Summer Timetable:

*T1: Start Gate to Fleetwood (Every 20 Mins)
*T2: Starr Gate to North Station (Every 20 mns)
*T3: North Station to Fleetwood (Every 20 mins)
To run and maintain this service. It would likely require 14 or 15 (out of a Possible 18) Flexity 2s rather than the Measely 11 trams that the current service requires

Additional Services (Specials)
*S1: Pleasure Beach to Little Bispham/Cleveleys (Avioiding North Station). Utilising x3 B Fleet Balloons
*S2: The same as S1 but going via North Pier and Utilising x2 Flexities instead of the B Fleet

Heritage Serivices (Calling at Heritage Stops only)
*H1 Pleasure Beach Loop to North Pier
*H2 Pleasure Beach Loop to Bispham/Little Bispham Loop
*H3 Pleasure Beach Loop to Fleetwood