tram21
Member
So presumably it's just luck and keeping an eye out! It's illuminations day so no heritage tours are running, and it'll be busy so fingers crossed!
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Blackpool Trams News
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bluegoblin7
Established Member
B Fleet has been out ad-hoc to cover mainly for cancelled Flexity workings but there's not really any pattern to it - they generally use Heritage crews in between other duties. There is a higher chance for them to be out in the Illuminations, if not used on tours.
If you're wanting to ride the Heritage trams a Heritage Travelcard at £18 is your best option, also valid on all Blackpool Transport services. This is valid on any 'tours' running outside of enhanced days, despite this not being particularly clear in the advertising. Even on a 'normal' day with one 'Coastal Tour' to Fleetwood and two 'Promenade Tours' to Small Bispham this works out cheapest overall.
If not, your best option is to get a through train ticket to 'BPOOL NTHBUSTRAM' - assuming you have a return this is valid on all Blackpool Transport services irrespective of area, or one single journey if you hold a single. Railcard discounts are valid although sometimes you might have to split to get it to be offered. An equivalent fare is available to Blackpool South also.
A PlusBus is only really worth it if you want to use other operators services or you're not going to do the full length of the tramway, as it is only valid as far as Cleveleys.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I've not heard of one of those before; I have just looked up and I can see they are available from Preston, but not from my home station of Epsom - what is the furthest away from Blackpool from which one can be found?
As the fare from Epsom is the same to Preston as to Blackpool North, I am guessing there are no opportunities that wopuld make this ticket worthwhile for me?
splashoutradio
Member
I can't claim to be local, but made a few journeys on the tramway today.
From what I saw, the timetable seemed to be largely working well with passengers, and was running to time throughout.
That said, there was one group of tourists who were perplexed by the layout of platforms at the triangle junction, not helped by their referral to a somewhat inaccurate map on the BT website (map)
Operationally, the on board staff were excellent, and appeared to be making a game out of the northbound and southbound services being scheduled to depart North Station at the same time.
From what I saw, the timetable seemed to be largely working well with passengers, and was running to time throughout.
That said, there was one group of tourists who were perplexed by the layout of platforms at the triangle junction, not helped by their referral to a somewhat inaccurate map on the BT website (map)
Operationally, the on board staff were excellent, and appeared to be making a game out of the northbound and southbound services being scheduled to depart North Station at the same time.
Hadn't noticed that until the other day, they also seem to be timetabled to stop at Talbot Square and arrive at North Station at the same time going into the terminus as well
I noticed that the timetable allows 9 minutes from Talbot Square to departure from North Station. Seems a bit excessive, but there is an awful lot of time wasted at each end anyway. Even with the diversion, end to end is more than 15 minutes longer than 30/40 years ago, when there were twice as many stops, and slower loading/unloading. Hardly progress.
Does anyone know what's happening with Rigby Road at the minute? Are they still waiting for the survey to happen?
Am I the only here who thinks that the future of both Rigby Road Depot, and the Heritage Trams at Blackpool is looking pretty bleak at the minute?
Rigby Road Depot has been closed since January while they wait for a survey to be carried out, and yet nothing has happened since then. I'm really starting to fear that we could potentially lose the entire fleet of Heritage Trams if something isn't done ASAP.
If the issue is money, then maybe Blackpool Council funding the restoration of Rigby Road themselves rather than having to rely on donations from the public. If Manchester Council are willing to invest in the Heritage Tramway at Heaton Park, then Blackpool should be willing to do the same for their Heritage Trams if they care about them that much.
It is a real shame that Blackpool are treating their Heritage Trams as Disposable at the minute
Am I the only here who thinks that the future of both Rigby Road Depot, and the Heritage Trams at Blackpool is looking pretty bleak at the minute?
Rigby Road Depot has been closed since January while they wait for a survey to be carried out, and yet nothing has happened since then. I'm really starting to fear that we could potentially lose the entire fleet of Heritage Trams if something isn't done ASAP.
If the issue is money, then maybe Blackpool Council funding the restoration of Rigby Road themselves rather than having to rely on donations from the public. If Manchester Council are willing to invest in the Heritage Tramway at Heaton Park, then Blackpool should be willing to do the same for their Heritage Trams if they care about them that much.
It is a real shame that Blackpool are treating their Heritage Trams as Disposable at the minute
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The whole tramway is quite clearly being poorly run at present, the regular service is a mess. I think the heritage operation is doing very well, funding is always going to be tight for a major project like Rigby Rd but they’ll get there I suspect. What could be improved, IMHO, is things like advertising and the heritage shop online, but that’s a different issue.
seasidersfan
Member
I fully agree the tramway is a mess at the moment. BTS have totally fumbled this and this is from someone who liked the T1/T2/T3 routing if it actually had good frequency.
There's a lot that needs sorting but short term do all of this:
* Reduce Fleetwood to Starr Gate journey time back to 58/55 minutes. It was idiotic to increase this to 65 minutes for no good reason. This automatically frees up 1-2 trams for better frequency.
* Do T1/T2/T3 but with an actual decent frequency of 15 minutes or less and stop messing with everything. Alternatively keep 30 mins but introduce a T4 which is Promenade/lights service (PB-Bispham/LB).
* Stop treating the No 1 bus as a replacement competing service. Give it a slightly different route so it stops taking passengers away from the trams.
* Sort out live tracking. It's unacceptable to not have this on a light rail service in 2024 on the app, especially when buses have had it since 2018 or so. Put it out to third party apps like Google maps as well not just BTS app.
* Leading on from above, it's comical there is a departure board installed at the terminus that hasn't been switched on once! What was the point of installing this?
* Actual signage that there is a tram interchange inside the station itself (maybe even a tram departure board), you have no idea it even exists until you leave the station and happen to look that way.
* Fix the disabled/wheelchair lift from Talbot Rd. Again, why was this installed if it doesn't work?
* Pave over the building site ASAP. A car park is planned but please please include some greenery and a proper use for the space longer term that's a bit more ambitious.
* If it has to be one conductor per tram due to staffing issues, so be it. If you properly advertise ticket options and have multiple methods that shouldn't be a problem, buses have tap & go so it's not that difficult. Improving staff retention is also an option...
Medium term you could look at:
* More fencing, such as between Starr Gate and Pleasure Beach, and Metropole and Cabin, away from peak footfall areas. That would allow higher operating speeds to further improve journey time and improve safety.
* Look at adding Fylde borough residents to the concessions scheme alongside Blackpool and Wyre.
* Better bus interchange at Starr Gate for onward travel to South Fylde.
* Repaint the trams, they're looking faded. Maybe a refreshed livery.
* Identify if Park & Ride is viable, possibly at Little Bispham and/or Cleveleys/Fleetwood.
And this is before you even consider anything too ambitious or long term like further extensions.
If the majority of this can't be sorted (short term goals especially) then any competent local authority would consider a new operator for the tramway to let it actually reach its full potential. Fylde Coast Metro has a nice ring to it ...
There's a lot that needs sorting but short term do all of this:
* Reduce Fleetwood to Starr Gate journey time back to 58/55 minutes. It was idiotic to increase this to 65 minutes for no good reason. This automatically frees up 1-2 trams for better frequency.
* Do T1/T2/T3 but with an actual decent frequency of 15 minutes or less and stop messing with everything. Alternatively keep 30 mins but introduce a T4 which is Promenade/lights service (PB-Bispham/LB).
* Stop treating the No 1 bus as a replacement competing service. Give it a slightly different route so it stops taking passengers away from the trams.
* Sort out live tracking. It's unacceptable to not have this on a light rail service in 2024 on the app, especially when buses have had it since 2018 or so. Put it out to third party apps like Google maps as well not just BTS app.
* Leading on from above, it's comical there is a departure board installed at the terminus that hasn't been switched on once! What was the point of installing this?
* Actual signage that there is a tram interchange inside the station itself (maybe even a tram departure board), you have no idea it even exists until you leave the station and happen to look that way.
* Fix the disabled/wheelchair lift from Talbot Rd. Again, why was this installed if it doesn't work?
* Pave over the building site ASAP. A car park is planned but please please include some greenery and a proper use for the space longer term that's a bit more ambitious.
* If it has to be one conductor per tram due to staffing issues, so be it. If you properly advertise ticket options and have multiple methods that shouldn't be a problem, buses have tap & go so it's not that difficult. Improving staff retention is also an option...
Medium term you could look at:
* More fencing, such as between Starr Gate and Pleasure Beach, and Metropole and Cabin, away from peak footfall areas. That would allow higher operating speeds to further improve journey time and improve safety.
* Look at adding Fylde borough residents to the concessions scheme alongside Blackpool and Wyre.
* Better bus interchange at Starr Gate for onward travel to South Fylde.
* Repaint the trams, they're looking faded. Maybe a refreshed livery.
* Identify if Park & Ride is viable, possibly at Little Bispham and/or Cleveleys/Fleetwood.
And this is before you even consider anything too ambitious or long term like further extensions.
If the majority of this can't be sorted (short term goals especially) then any competent local authority would consider a new operator for the tramway to let it actually reach its full potential. Fylde Coast Metro has a nice ring to it ...
Certainly can't argue with any of that. If I remember rightly, there were proposals to make the Pleasure Beach to Starr Gate section reserved track prior to the upgrade (i.e. like that north of Cabin), not sure what came of that.
The problem with doing that is all the pensioners complaining, as ENCTS passes from outside Blackpool and Wyre aren't valid on the tram.
The pensioners will still come, they’ll just have to pay a fare! BT could introduce half fares for non-local concessionary passholders on the trams, which would add to ridership whilst still delivering decent value. Of course it’s a bit “chicken & egg” isn’t it; the cycle needs to be broken by stopping the flow of passengers onto the No 1, but you’d need the tram capacity to replace it first!
Apart from the journey time being increased to 65 mins, What's the issue about the present Starr Gate to Fleetwood (via North Station) service on a 15 minute frequency. I think I can agree with you and say that the turnaround time at North Station is far too long (this is where the extra time comes in) No one needs 6 minutes to change cabs, You can probably do it in about 2 mins max
Also, at present, the plan that you propose (T1/T2/T3 at 15 minute intervals) is impossible to do, It'd require ordering extra Trams and building an entirely new depot to store them in. You'd need about 20 extra Trams to do something like this (taking the total to 38).
I feel like the single end to end service is the best option for now, although if any if the other proposed extensions happen anytime (Such as the Lytham extension & the Poulton extension) then I think a return to having 3 (or 4) seperate services should be considred
Is the frequency really enough to damage the tramway? And especially since it was curtailed to the town centre, there is no bus available for people South of Talbot Square, apart from the lesser spotted Transpora. BT have effectively made the tram the only way to travel to Fleetwood, and then cut the service.
seasidersfan
Member
Certainly not true:
15 minute frequency on SG-Fleetwood on 55 ish minute journey time = 110 minutes total
110/15 = 7.3, round up to 8 trams
NS-Fleetwood approx 45 mins (high end) = 90 minutes total
90/15 = 6 Trams
NS-SG approx 20 mins = 40 minutes total
40/15 = 2.7, round up to 3 trams
Total trams = 8 + 6 + 3 = 17
If that's a concern then you could better optimise this or have one of the routes be 20 minutes and utilise 16/18 trams to be on the safe side.
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It's pretty much impossible to do it on 17 Trams. You'd need an extra two trams at the very least so then they can be all rotated about for Maintance, Breakdowns, etc.
seasidersfan
Member
Then just have every other T2 tram terminate at Pleasure Beach or something to cut one tram. Point is there are ways to do this that doesn't lead to either an abysmal frequency or the current situation of massively inconvenient journey times.
Not to mention the fact I haven't even brought up no service to the station after 19:00 or the state of the tram shelters yet!
Not to mention the fact I haven't even brought up no service to the station after 19:00 or the state of the tram shelters yet!
Blackpool boy
On Moderation
You are aware that Manchester council has more money for things like this than Blackpool council ?
bluegoblin7
Established Member
The cost of a relatively modest power supply is also an order of magnitude smaller than the cost to resolve the structural issues at Rigby Road.
In terms of live tracking, can they not just install bus ticket machines in the cabs of all the trams, that the driver would log into for every trip, but would obviously not issue tickets.
Therefore the trams would track just the same as the buses, and for Blackpool Transport it would all work as one tracking system
Therefore the trams would track just the same as the buses, and for Blackpool Transport it would all work as one tracking system
seasidersfan
Member
Live tracking is so trivial at this point there are probably dozens of ways and likely very cheap.
duffield
Established Member
And as I understand it, the totally bogus excuse given was not being able to source suitably weather/salt proof displays for the stops, when they could just provide online tracking without stop displays (and maybe add them later if a solution was found).
Returning to the pre-June 2024 timings would release just one tram, compared to the present schedules. In any case, there is currently no shortage of trams, any shortage is of crews.
You're already reducing your proposed timings, from what you said just fifteen hours earlier.
Those schedules would be fine if you weren't actually carrying anyone.
Even on your own proposed schedules, terminating every other T2 at Pleasure Beach wouldn't save a tram, it would save half a tram, and that's not a lot of use when trams come in whole numbers.
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sierraromeo
Member
I travelled Norbreck to North Station on a Starr Gate service yesterday. Only a single as I’d got a lift there. The tram was so busy that there was no chance of the conductor taking any fares, including my own. I would have happily paid via a contactless pad either on the platforms or the trams. Just seems a big loss of revenue for Blackpool transport if the only way of paying contactless on board is via the conductors machine.
What time was that roughly? I know Saturdays can be pretty bad all day with the 15 minute frequency. I think they're trying to push people towards the app for buying tickets, but given how many of the passengers are visitors who don't necessarily know the best option for them, I'm not sure how successful that's going to be.
Conductors being unable to get round people, or even move at all due to overcrowding has been an issue for years unfortunately.
sierraromeo
Member
6pm-ish.
And yes, I was visiting and I see what you’re saying. I wasn’t going to download an app for one trip when information is communicated that tickets are available to buy on board.
And yes, I was visiting and I see what you’re saying. I wasn’t going to download an app for one trip when information is communicated that tickets are available to buy on board.
Not sure how hard they're pushing them on the ground, but they've slashed the cost of group tickets on the from £18 for 5 to £10 for 2 + £2 per additional person up to £16 for 5.
Going to be an even bigger problem now as Lights season has begun all the way through to the New Year.