Blyth & Fleetwood potential reopenings?

[Wtloild]

Guardian is reporting potential reopening of lines to Blyth & Fleetwood.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ionalised-and-some-beeching-closures-reversed

in an effort to regain political impetus, and following the promise of “levelling up” the regions post-Brexit, the Department for Transport will this week set out details of lines that could be reopened.

Earlier this month, Shapps visited Blyth, where he discussed a £100m council blueprint for the reintroduction of passenger services on a Northumberland rail line linking Newcastle to Ashington via Blyth, currently partly used for freight services. He said there was £500m set aside for reopening lines.

A project to restore the line linking Blackpool to Fleetwood, visited by Boris Johnson in November on the election campaign, is also likely to be a prime candidate for funding.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ionalised-and-some-beeching-closures-reversed

Think Blyth not a massive exercise, but Fleetwood a bigger job??

Moderator note: There is a dedicated thread regarding Blyth and Tyne at: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-the-blyth-and-tyne-route-be-reopened.177921/

 

[30907]

Fleetwood will be the bigger job, but "is likely to be" doesn't amount to much. Both lines have been on the radar for some years IIRC.

 

[Codville]

The Ashington line has the advantage of still being an active freight line, Fleetwood branch would need a new set of points fitted at Poulton after it was lifted during the electrification works and a new bridge at Jameson Road in Fleetwood plus the associated drainage, signalling and building a new station.

 

[modernrail]

and electrifi

The Ashington line has the advantage of still being an active freight line, Fleetwood branch would need a new set of points fitted at Poulton after it was lifted during the electrification works and a new bridge at Jameson Road in Fleetwood plus the associated drainage, signalling and building a new station.

....and electrification (unless the proposal is to run a diesel/battery shuttle or divert the Calder Valley service?) and if not a shuttle also paths further down the line for an extra service as I am sure Blackpool doesn't want to lose any.

Can't see Fleetwood happening personally for the cost/population it would serve unless they do go for a bargain basement battery powered shuttle to Poulton.

 

[paul1609]

Can see thousands of tourists flocking to Fleetwood for the highlight of the view of the Nuclear Power Station across the mud. Ive got to go back up there for football next month for the second time this season depressing.

 

[swanhill41]

Frankly cannot see the figures stacking up for Fleetwood line...That is as a heavy railway...
There maybe a case for LRT line to Poulton as being pushed by Paul Maynard the local MP

 

[Codville]

and electrifi

....and electrification (unless the proposal is to run a diesel/battery shuttle or divert the Calder Valley service?) and if not a shuttle also paths further down the line for an extra service as I am sure Blackpool doesn't want to lose any.

Can't see Fleetwood happening personally for the cost/population it would serve unless they do go for a bargain basement battery powered shuttle to Poulton.

The old Halcrow report from 2006 suggested extending the Ormskirk service to Preston up to Fleetwood but also don't forget its not just Fleetwood that would be served by reopening the line as it would also open Thornton and Burn Naze, the latter having seen some significant house building in the last few years.

Frankly cannot see the figures stacking up for Fleetwood line...That is as a heavy railway...
There maybe a case for LRT line to Poulton as being pushed by Paul Maynard the local MP

I think it'll cost more to convert it to LRT and connect it to the tramway than reopen it for heavy rail use, the proposals I've seen suggest running tracks down Dock Street and then I presume down Amounderness Way to link onto the old rail alignment.

 

[Starmill]

Fleetwood is almost certainly a complete waste of time.

The so-called 'Northumberland line' has almost everything going for it.

 

[swanhill41]

Burn Naze Station is not accessible to the public at present ….Its inside the Hillhouse industrial site,which is not open to the public.

 

[swanhill41]

The old Halcrow report from 2006 suggested extending the Ormskirk service to Preston up to Fleetwood but also don't forget its not just Fleetwood that would be served by reopening the line as it would also open Thornton and Burn Naze, the latter having seen some significant house building in the last few years.


I think it'll cost more to convert it to LRT and connect it to the tramway than reopen it for heavy rail use, the proposals I've seen suggest running tracks down Dock Street and then I presume down Amounderness Way to link onto the old rail alignment.

The big cost for a heavy rail line is the points being reinstalled at Poulton....The line was moved over for higher speed ,so Network Rail would be up in arms over doing that

 

[tbtc]

and electrifi

....and electrification (unless the proposal is to run a diesel/battery shuttle or divert the Calder Valley service?) and if not a shuttle also paths further down the line for an extra service as I am sure Blackpool doesn't want to lose any.

Can't see Fleetwood happening personally for the cost/population it would serve unless they do go for a bargain basement battery powered shuttle to Poulton.

That's the problem I have with Fleetwood.

Ashington/Blyth is an ideal kind of route for a re-opening - clear demand for people to get from smaller towns into the nearest big city - frequent commercial bus service, box-ticking stuff about regeneration of post-industrial "left behind" places etc - the kind of simple re-opening that worked well at Ebbw Vale etc - do it.

But the set up at Fleetwood means that any Preston - Fleetwood service comes at the expense of a Preston - Blackpool service - I can see the argument for linking it to the national network but I'm not sure what the service would be, so I'd personally file it alongside places like Newcastle (Staffordshire), where there's a decent size of population without heavy rail but no compelling case/service to extend/divert there. No offence to the Cod Army etc but I can't see people in (e.g.) Leeds being delighted that their Blackpool service has been diverted to Fleetwood instead. But, at the same time, with two Blackpool - Manchester services per hour, one to Yorkshire, one to Liverpool and two different irregular Euston services, I'm not sure how much capacity there is for more paths through Poulton (if the plan is for Fleetwood services to be additional to the existing Blackpool ones?).

At least they are focussing on shortish stubs to towns with reasonable populations, rather than engaging in some of the fanciful stuff about lines through the middle of nowhere.

 

[Glenn1969]

There have been calls for a 2nd service over Copy Pit to Preston by political leaders and stakeholders. Maybe if they did that it could serve Fleetwood instead of Blackpool?

 

[andyj158]

With a decent sized free car park at Fleetwood I can see a Fleetwood - Preston service doing well.

It's fairly straightforward to get to Fleetwood by car from surrounding towns and villages such as Cleveleys, Knott End etc and there's certainly the space around any potential station for a decent size car park.

Plus the Poulton & Wyre Railway Society have been clearing parts of the route of vegetation over the years.

 

[CockneySparrow]

If the Fleetwood line was to reopen and there wasnt any further paths between there and Preston they could do the popular "split train" method thats used with the obvious split at Poulton

Personally I dont think it would happen as with the electrification the points have been removed and correct me if I am wrong but when they done that they said it would never ever be reconnected

In terms of viability it will be a financial waste of money as the train to BPN is only a few minutes down the line and there are trams every 10 minutes from there, besides expect Blackpool council to block every move as well

 

[158756]

There have been calls for a 2nd service over Copy Pit to Preston by political leaders and stakeholders. Maybe if they did that it could serve Fleetwood instead of Blackpool?

Where would it go East of Copy Pit though, and how many people would use it? To me the obvious service to run from Fleetwood would be a shuttle to Preston. Though that raises the question of what to do with it at Preston - maybe joining it to the Ormskirk route could work.

I don't believe it's beyond the wit of man to fit five trains an hour on the not particularly fast railway between Poulton and Preston. The points issue at Poulton is just another example of the total lack of long term planning on the railway and UK infrastructure in general, but is surely not insurmountable - every reopened line (though many English people have probably forgotten such a thing is even possible) has needed a connection to the network somewhere.

Is a bigger issue not the location of the station at Fleetwood - it looks like the original alignment barely even reaches the edge of the town now, and it'd be a lot of work to get any further.

 

[Glenn1969]

Presume it would go to Leeds either via Halifax or via Brighouse (after the Transpennine Route Upgrade)

 

[Wtloild]

Blackpool wouldn't miss the odd train, it's over-served as it is.
Alternatively, running Ormskirk trains through to Fleetwood to save the blocking Preston isn't a bad call.

 

[Wtloild]

Is a bigger issue not the location of the station at Fleetwood - it looks like the original alignment barely even reaches the edge of the town now, and it'd be a lot of work to get any further.

I think there'd be room for some basic station near the Freeport outlet place, which would be handy for the centre, the footy & the outlet itself.

 

[Ant158]

Not sure how or if these would work but Maybe:
Fleetwood to Colne, now that has been delinked with Blackpool South or Link it up with the Todmorden curve service at Blackburn.

 

[philthetube]

With a decent sized free car park at Fleetwood I can see a Fleetwood - Preston service doing well.

It's fairly straightforward to get to Fleetwood by car from surrounding towns and villages such as Cleveleys, Knott End etc and there's certainly the space around any potential station for a decent size car park.

Plus the Poulton & Wyre Railway Society have been clearing parts of the route of vegetation over the years.

Knott end to fleetwood is 11 miles unless you use the ferry, which cannot be relied on at low tide.

 

[swanhill41]

A question I would ask,before all the chat about splitting trains....Is there an actual demand for this line in terms of passengers?...With todays very high infrastructure costs,I cannot see an economic case....Can I remind you all that you will be able to go from Fleetwood,Cleveleys by tram to Blackpool North by 2023 or so.!

 

[swanhill41]

Knott end to fleetwood is 11 miles unless you use the ferry, which cannot be relied on at low tide.

People from Knott End use Poulton and would do in the future as easier to get to

 

[DarloRich]

is it time for the government to trot out another undoing Dr Beeching story. Have they something to hide?

 

[gordonthemoron]

is it time for the government to trot out another undoing Dr Beeching story. Have they something to hide?

Skipton to Colne would be a better idea, and I'm sure there are loads more. Perhaps make Blackburn-Hellifield a regular service?

 

[geoffk]

Where would it go East of Copy Pit though, and how many people would use it? To me the obvious service to run from Fleetwood would be a shuttle to Preston.

There are a lot of calls from people in the Calder Valley for a service to Huddersfield via Brighouse.

 

[paul1609]

Having just paid £27 for an away ticket I could check next month but my OS map shows the freight line terminating on the outskirts of the town, is the formation still clear to the town centre?

 

[Tobbes]

Having just paid £27 for an away ticket I could check next month but my OS map shows the freight line terminating on the outskirts of the town, is the formation still clear to the town centre?

No, the A585 Amounderness Way bypass appears to have been built on the formation, so some landtake and property acquisition would be required to get back into central Fleetwood. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyre_Dock_railway_station which is now retail and light industrial - though buy Home Bargains and there's your station, complete with large carpark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyre_Dock_railway_station

 

[swt_passenger]

The “Northumberland line” proposals have been in development for quite a while now though, I’m sure there’ll be an existing discussion somewhere in the forums.

To be accurate Blyth station itself was on a separate branch off the main route to Ashington, and has never been on the cards for reopening. Is the station for Blyth to be at a new location or the original site of Newsham? I guess that won’t stop politicians referring to a reopening to Blyth of course.

 

[swanhill41]

No, the A585 Amounderness Way bypass appears to have been built on the formation, so some landtake and property acquisition would be required to get back into central Fleetwood. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyre_Dock_railway_station

The only feasible location for terminus is around Wyre Dock location,and this might require the demolition of a newly built pub...Any further would require removal of car park of the "FREEPORT" Any further not possible without large costs ...

 

[Tobbes]

The “Northumberland line” proposals have been in development for quite a while now though, I’m sure there’ll be an existing discussion somewhere in the forums.

To be accurate Blyth station itself was on a separate branch off the main route to Ashington, and has never been on the cards for reopening. Is the station for Blyth to be at a new location or the original site of Newsham? I guess that won’t stop politicians referring to a reopening to Blyth of course.

All the work appears to have been on Newsham, or somewhere near it, rather than the Blyth branch per se. Given the manifesto commitment to scrap the Fixed Terms Parliament Act, I presume that this Parliament won't run all the way to late 2024, so politically these reopenings need to either be done by then, or with very tangible/visible progress by then for a major political payoff - all of which suggests the Blyth-Ashington main, rather than the branch.