Boeing Starliner

YorkRailFan · 8 Aug 2024

The Starliner took off on 5 June on its first crewed flight, originally set for 2019. However, they were only expected to be in space for 8 days, but are now expected to remain on the ISS until May 2025 at the earliest and return on SpaceX's Dragon. The FAA has raised concerns regarding the Starliner.

Two astronauts stuck at the International Space Station since early June may not return back to Earth until 2025, NASA officials have said.

The space agency has been examining whether the two stranded astronauts could come home on board a SpaceX craft instead of the Boeing’s Starliner capsule, which has been beset with problems since its launch over two months ago.There is lingering uncertainty over the safety of Boeing’s capsule, NASA officials said on Wednesday, and the space agency is split over the risk.

As a result, chances are increasing that test pilots Butch Wilmore and Sunita Williams may have to watch from the space station as their Starliner is cut loose to return to Earth empty.If that happens, NASA would leave behind two of four astronauts from the next SpaceX taxi flight in late September, with the vacant seats set aside for Wilmore and Williams on the return trip next February. The pair expected to be gone just a week or two when they launched June 5 as Starliner’s first crew.NASA is bringing in additional experts to analyze the thruster failures experienced by Starliner before it docked. At the same time, NASA is looking more closely at SpaceX as a backup. At this point, “we could take either path,” said Ken Bowersox, NASA’s space operations mission chief.The disagreements over Wilmore and Williams’ return to earth prompted officials to postpone an in-depth readiness review of the Starliner and to delay a SpaceX launch that was planned for Tuesday.

The Independent has contacted NASA, Boeing, and SpaceX for comment.

Publically, Boeing has insisted it still stands behind the Starliner, which suffered mechanical issues on its way to docking at the ISS on June 6 for what was supposed to be an eight-day mission.“Boeing remains confident in the Starliner spacecraft and its ability to return safely with crew,” the company said in a statement on Friday. “We continue to support NASA’s requests for additional testing, data, analysis and reviews to affirm the spacecraft’s safe undocking and landing capabilities.”.

Bringing the astronauts back in a SpaceX capsule would be a major blow to Boeing.

Astronauts stuck in space until 2025 after 8-day Boeing Starliner mission goes wrong

Astronauts arrived at ISS two months ago for what was supposed to be an eight-day mission

www.independent.co.uk

The question is: Will Boeing put pride over the astronauts and insist on them returning on the Starliner or will they concede and send the Starliner back to Earth empty with the astronauts returning on SpaceX's Dragon craft?
For the sake of the astronauts, I hope for the latter.

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nlogax · 9 Aug 2024

YorkRailFan said:
For the sake of the astronauts, I hope for the latter.

Same. Honestly, SpaceX & Starlink are the only worthy things to come from the Musk stable. SpaceX's progress has been hugely impressive over the last decade and it's already well-proven in terms of safety of crewed missions.

najaB · 10 Aug 2024

YorkRailFan said:
The question is: Will Boeing put pride over the astronauts and insist on them returning on the Starliner or will they concede and send the Starliner back to Earth empty with the astronauts returning on SpaceX's Dragon craft?

First off, the "stranded" and "unsafe" angles have been overplayed. They aren't stranded and, if necessary, could return in Starliner today.

There are two issues that have resulted in NASA extending the stay of the test crew. The first is that the thrusters that failed during the ascent and docking are the ones that would normally be used to put the vehicle into a slightly lower orbit than the ISS after undocking so that there's zero chance of it re-contacting the ISS after undocking. So there's a small chance that, were they to fail again after undocking, they would be forced to deorbit earlier than planned (and might end up landing outside of any designated recovery area).

The second issue is again related to the thrusters and helium system - the reduction in redundancy since they were only able to recover four out of five (or maybe it was three out of four) thrusters means that the overall risk of LOVC is under NASA's 1:270 threshold for crewed vehicles. Obviously I'm not part of the MMT but the figure I've heard is something around 1:200, so it's still safe, just not quite safe enough. That's why they've said all along that if ISS has to be evacuated then the crew comes back on Starliner.

With respect to returning Starliner uncrewed, the problem there is that neither Boeing nor NASA thought to update the autonomous reentry guidance software since this and all future flights were supposed to be crewed. As such, there's no confidence that the vehicle would be able to return successfully. By the way, this isn't a new thing or a sign of Boeing incompetence - the Space Shuttle orbiters were capable of automated flight all the way back to the runway, but the landing gear had to be deployed manually, since there was never expected to be an uncrewed mission.

YorkRailFan · 10 Aug 2024

najaB said:
With respect to returning Starliner uncrewed, the problem there is that neither Boeing nor NASA thought to update the autonomous reentry guidance software since this and all future flights were supposed to be crewed. As such, there's no confidence that the vehicle would be able to return successfully. By the way, this isn't a new thing or a sign of Boeing incompetence - the Space Shuttle orbiters were capable of automated flight all the way back to the runway, but the landing gear had to be deployed manually, since there was never expected to be an uncrewed mission.

I believe that the autonomous reentry software was switched off to prevent it interfering in the flight that sent Williams and Wilmore to the ISS.

najaB · 10 Aug 2024

YorkRailFan said:
I believe that the autonomous reentry software was switched off to prevent it interfering in the flight that sent Williams and Wilmore to the ISS.

Yup. Turned off and they've never tested re-enabling it.

YorkRailFan · 22 Aug 2024

A new issue for the 2 astronauts who are stuck on the ISS after flying up on the Starliner, their spacesuits aren't compatible to fly on SpaceX's Dragoncraft.

An interesting dilemma has cropped up as NASA weighs its options on handling the problem-plagued Boeing Starliner currently docked to the International Space Station. If astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams were to hitch a ride back to Earth on a SpaceX Crew Dragon, they would need new spacesuits. Boeing’s (BA) intravehicular activity suits aren’t compatible with SpaceX’s spacecraft.

The stranded Boeing Starliner astronauts have another problem

They might hitch a ride back to Earth on with SpaceX. But Boeing spacesuits aren't compatible with SpaceX

qz.com

Either way, it will be costly for NASA.

najaB · 22 Aug 2024

YorkRailFan said:
A new issue for the 2 astronauts who are stuck on the ISS after flying up on the Starliner, their spacesuits aren't compatible to fly on SpaceX's Dragoncraft.

Mandatory pedantry: they're not stuck. They can come back on Starliner if they need to, the issue is that problems experience with the thrusters during ascent and docking means that the margin of safety is lower than it would have been with all thrusters working correctly.

NASA typically considers a 1:270 chance of LOV/LOC (loss of vehicle, loss of crew) to be the minimum for human rated spacecraft, but they haven't yet been able to agree on what the figure is for Starliner in its current state. From what I've heard, the gut feeling is that it's above the minimum, but they're still working through the numbers and no consensus has been reached.

What they do know is that the crew are safe on board ISS, and there's no pressing need to bring them back immediately so it's easier to just let them stay there while the engineers work. If the ISS was to develop a serious leak, suffer a major power failure or any other issue that required immediate evacuation then they would ride Starliner back down in a heartbeat.

Cloud Strife · 23 Aug 2024

najaB said:
What they do know is that the crew are safe on board ISS, and there's no pressing need to bring them back immediately so it's easier to just let them stay there while the engineers work. If the ISS was to develop a serious leak, suffer a major power failure or any other issue that required immediate evacuation then they would ride Starliner back down in a heartbeat.

Yes, it's really not a drama at all for them. They can carry out a lot of additional work for NASA, especially scientific work where extra hands are always welcome. If they have to stay until next year, it wouldn't really change much, and an unexpected long term mission on the iSS will be a dream come true for the two astronauts.

YorkRailFan · 24 Aug 2024

NASA has said the two astronauts will return on a SpaceX craft in February and the Starliner will return uncrewed.

Two Nasa astronauts who have been stuck in space for over two months will return to Earth in February 2025 with SpaceX.

Nasa said the Boeing Starliner spacecraft the astronauts Sunita Williams and Barry Wilmore had travelled to International Space Station (ISS) on would return to Earth "un-crewed".

Starliner: Astronauts stuck in space will return with SpaceX - BBC News

Sunita Williams and Barry Wilmore took off on what was planned to be an eight-day mission but will now spend around eight months in orbit.

www.bbc.co.uk

Considering that the reentry software had been switched off so the two astronauts could fly to the ISS on the Starliner in the first place, and the software hasn't been updated, how is the Starliner going to return uncrewed?

najaB · 24 Aug 2024

YorkRailFan said:
Considering that the reentry software had been switched off so the two astronauts could fly to the ISS on the Starliner in the first place, and the software hasn't been updated, how is the Starliner going to return uncrewed?

Either it was just disabled rather than completely removed, or they've done a firmware update in space.

JamesT · 25 Aug 2024

YorkRailFan said:
A new issue for the 2 astronauts who are stuck on the ISS after flying up on the Starliner, their spacesuits aren't compatible to fly on SpaceX's Dragoncraft.

The stranded Boeing Starliner astronauts have another problem

They might hitch a ride back to Earth on with SpaceX. But Boeing spacesuits aren't compatible with SpaceX

qz.com

Either way, it will be costly for NASA.

It’s not really a new issue, it’s been mentioned in coverage the first time coming back on Dragon was suggested. It would equally be an issue if there was a fault with Dragon, as Soyuz uses different suits again.

YorkRailFan · 30 Aug 2024

NASA has announced that Starliner will return to Earth next Friday (6 September):

Boeing's Starliner capsule now has a homecoming date.NASA announced this evening (Aug. 29) that Starliner will depart the International Space Station (ISS) no earlier than next Friday (Sept. 6), provided the weather cooperates and no technical issues pop up.

If all goes according to plan, the capsule will undock at 6:04 p.m. EDT (2204 GMT) on Sept. 6 and land under parachutes six hours later in White Sands Space Harbor in New Mexico.

Boeing's 1st crewed Starliner to return to Earth without astronauts on Sept. 6

Undocking will occur no earlier than 6:04 p.m. ET on Sept. 6.

www.space.com

Hopefully all goes well as a reentry going well for Starliner could claw back some of its reputation.

Starliner has safely returned to Earth:

Boeing's Starliner spacecraft has completed its journey back to Earth - but the astronauts it was supposed to be carrying remain behind on the International Space Station.

The empty craft travelled in autonomous mode after undocking from the orbiting lab.