Bradford Council proposal for a new NPR station

[Bald Rick]

I think it's TfN, Bradford City Council and any other relevant northern bodies getting together to fight off the threat of the government's likely wish to make the Leeds-Manchester section of NPR into no more than the Trans-Pennine upgrade via Huddersfield.

I agree with other recent posters that in order to protect the aim of a route via Bradford (and possibly a very long new tunnel from Littleborough) they're tacitly accepting the dropping of previous ideas like lots of tunnelling in and around Bradford.

Having read the reports now, this is not an NPR proposal. It’s a proposal to NPR. Rather different.

 

[Glenn1969]

I view it as a TfN proposal though, maybe via WYCA but definitely not just Bradford Council

 

[Bald Rick]

I view it as a TfN proposal though, maybe via WYCA but definitely not just Bradford Council

It’s definitely a Bradford proposal. TfN would find it hard not to support it, but notice Tim Wood’s carefully chosen words.

 

[Glenn1969]

I did. I also happen to think NPR will be Sunaked and considerably descoped to save money

 

[Purple Orange]

I did. I also happen to think NPR will be Sunaked and considerably descoped to save money

How would you describe NPR being ‘Sunaked’ and descoped to what extent?

 

[Glenn1969]

Either no new build at all except what is planned for the TRU or no tunneling. And serving Bradford I thought would add a fair amount to the cost

 

[takno]

Either no new build at all except what is planned for the TRU or no tunneling. And serving Bradford I thought would add a fair amount to the cost

To be fair, they seem to have reduced it to a relatively short tunnel through Bradford. Beyond that it could be done as just a diversion of the main Transpennine between Huddersfield and Leeds on existing tracks.

 

[Halifaxlad]

If it was done then I think it should be done closer to the Interchange with future proofing for crossing Bradford, if done like below then it would only need a viaduct above part of the Broadway Shopping Centre.

 

[Bigman]

If it was done then I think it should be done closer to the Interchange with future proofing for crossing Bradford, if done like below then it would only need a viaduct above part of the Broadway Shopping Centre.

View attachment 93287

Will there be any shops left in the Broadway post-Covid? Most high streets are going to resemble ghost towns. May as well just demolish the lot, build the new station, and build a new shopping centre on top with a multi-story car park.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Will there be any shops left in the Broadway post-Covid? Most high streets are going to resemble ghost towns. May as well just demolish the lot, build the new station, and build a new shopping centre on top with a multi-story car park.

Yes but proposing to demolish the entire lot only creates resistance to the proposed scheme, when anyone suggests crossing Bradford now they presume that the Shopping Centre has to be demolished and then are reluctant to support the idea. Only the part adjacent to Well St needs to be demolished, its only two storey except for Debenhams (which is now shut) and could be rebuilt later although I would use the land below it for this mass transit as Well St is rather narrow!

 

[Bigman]

Yes but proposing to demolish the entire lot only creates resistance to the proposed scheme, when anyone suggests crossing Bradford now they presume that the Shopping Centre has to be demolished and then are reluctant to support the idea. Only the part adjacent to Well St needs to be demolished, its only two storey except for Debenhams (which is now shut) and could be rebuilt later although I would use the land below it for this mass transit as Well St is rather narrow!

Good suggestion that. A once in a generation chance to create a proper transport hub.

 

[Halifaxlad]

A once in a generation chance to create a proper transport hub.

It is certainly is a once in a generation opportunity, lets just hope the Council takes the full opportunity of it!

Just looking at what actually would have to be relocated in the Broadway shopping centre and its only a small handful including...

Superdry
JD
Pandora
Game
HMV

they're certainly is plenty of other empty shops in it, so the only real issue would be to relocate M&S!

For a map of what shops are still left visit the Broadway website at the following address:

https://broadwaybradford.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/3434-2020-Changeover-Creative-Mall-Guide-AWK-Digital.pdf

 

[Bigman]

I am guessing that is this happened, this could open up the possibility of Leeds - Carlisle/Morecambe working via Bradford, and dare I say it Ilkley/Skipton to Halifax and beyond?

 

[nimbus21]

If it was done then I think it should be done closer to the Interchange with future proofing for crossing Bradford, if done like below then it would only need a viaduct above part of the Broadway Shopping Centre.

View attachment 93287

That layout looks to be an ideal solution. Keeping services operational during construction would be a big challenge.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Bradford Crossrail is the Crayonista idea that just won't die. In reality it would raise as many problems as the (very minor) problems it will solve... chief among them the time and distance penalty of running via Shipley rather than Bramley. The reversals at Interchange are only a problem in the heads of enthusiasts. That's also where most of the "untapped market" of potential Brighouse to Skipton travellers live.

If we're talking NPR, you wouldn't ideally want your approaches from either side to match the present approaches to the city centre from the Low Moor and Frizinghall directions. If NPR is to be a dedicated high-speed route, you'd be using an entirely new alignment anyway.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Bradford Crossrail is the Crayonista idea that just won't die. In reality it would raise as many problems as the (very minor) problems it will solve... chief among them the time and distance penalty of running via Shipley rather than Bramley. The reversals at Interchange are only a problem in the heads of enthusiasts. That's also where most of the "untapped market" of potential Brighouse to Skipton travellers live.

If we're talking NPR, you wouldn't ideally want your approaches from either side to match the present approaches to the city centre from the Low Moor and Frizinghall directions. If NPR is to be a dedicated high-speed route, you'd be using an entirely new alignment anyway.

I would say Bradford Crossrail is about as crayonista as this proposed new Interchange station! Actually on its own its probably less crayonista.

In my above suggestion Im certainly not suggesting routing services that currently run through Bramley via Shipley instead. Although I reckon it would have been quicker if it was done before Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge stations were built as all services now seem to be a lot slower. I think the best time between Leeds & Shipley before was about 9 miniutes from what I remember, when all goes well of course.

The only problem I have with reversals is that it slows everything down, although if this new proposal goes ahead then services will be able to run straight through the station anyway. If you look at the plans it appears that NPR is to share some of the existing line.

The best thing about Bradford Crossrail to me is freeing up capacity on Calder Valley Line services as with a few more wires Bradford FS services could carryon on to Leeds via Bramley. At the moment the long distance Manchester services/Calder Valley services also form the intermediate commuter services between Leeds and Bradford, which used to result in them becoming full especially when leaving Leeds or rather did pre-pandemic.

 

[30907]

Although I reckon it would have been quicker if it was done before Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge stations were built as all services now seem to be a lot slower. I think the best time between Leeds & Shipley before was about 9 miniutes from what I remember, when all goes well of course.

The Skiptons are booked nonstop (down) in 11min, and have been since the 333s arrived; 9min would be spectacular. With two stops it's 15 min.

 

[Halifaxlad]

According to WYCA's website:

'While a new Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) station is planned for Bradford City Centre, with the St James's Wholesale Market site being the preferred location for this, the Interchange is set to remain as the city’s primary bus station, meaning the proposals will deliver a lasting benefit.'

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) | Bradford Interchange Station Access | Your Voice

Please note - this survey has now closed To download the Outcome Report, please click here. The information below was presented during the public consultation between Monday 28 July to Sunday 22 September 2021: Introduction Bradford Council, in partnership with the West

www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk

 

[Gareth]

A big, hearty bowl of not-going-to-happen.

 

[Halifaxlad]

A big, hearty bowl of not-going-to-happen.

I can't imagine it myself I just thought I should highlight it as its the first I've read about maintaining the existing interchange, up to now my understanding of it was that it would also be moved to be with the new station.