Brake vans: are they still used?

[crehld]

Brake vans: are they still used?

Leaving Crewe for London today I noticed what looked like a ballast train crawling along in the Basford Hall Yard with a battered brake van sporting faded Dutch livery attached to the end of it

I assumed these vehicles were a thing of the past, confined only to heritage lines and model railways, so it was somewhat surprising. Do they ever venture out onto the mainline or is this a strictly within yard limits affair?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Brake vans: are they still used?

Leaving Crewe for London today I noticed what looked like a ballast train crawling along in the Basford Hall Yard with a battered brake van sporting faded Dutch livery attached to the end of it

I assumed these vehicles were a thing of the past, confined only to heritage lines and model railways, so it was somewhat surprising. Do they ever venture out onto the mainline or is this a strictly within yard limits affair?

I've a feeling that none are left on the mainline however I think that one is still in use in South Wales for the movement of steel traffic away from the mainline. However I'm afraid that I have no idea of the location.

I'm pretty certain that I asked exactly the same question on this forum a few years a go! Without checking one of the last uses of a brake van on the mainline must have been the Denby branch which was taken out of use many years a go.

 

[Paul180]

Could it have been a Shark Ballast Plough Brake Van I did't think these were used any more.

 

[D60]

It would be a Shark ballast plough... Used to level out ballast dropped from ballast hoppers... A specialist p-way departmental type of a brake van... Prior to 'Dutch' livery, they would be in olive green livery... Often used in conjunction with Sealion and Dogfish hoppers...

 

[Mugby]

Is any ballast for the P/Way dropped from wagons anymore? I thought most of the hopper wagons had gone now. Most relaying jobs I've seen have ballast brought in flat wagons and it's distributed by road railers with grabs and then the road railer attaches a plough to regulate the ballast.

 

[Kneedown]

They may still be used on nuclear flask trains, and other high risk dangerous goods trains, HCN, Liquid Chlorine if still transported by rail?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can anyone confirm if the phrases "brake van" an "break van" are both correct, as the phrase "break van" appears in certain Victorian articles on railway operation.

 

[StripeyNick]

A brake vehicle rather than van is used with trains from East Usk Yard, Newport down to Birdport.

A shark has been used up until relatively recently however a converted container wagon is now used.

NOT MY PIC...........

Freight with Brake Van by Chris Davies, on Flickr

New wagon.........

https://flic.kr/p/zg782q

 

[krus_aragon]

They may still be used on nuclear flask trains, and other high risk dangerous goods trains, HCN, Liquid Chlorine if still transported by rail?

Nuclear trains in North Wales are double headed, with no brake van.

 

[jopsuk]

Can anyone confirm if the phrases "brake van" an "break van" are both correct, as the phrase "break van" appears in certain Victorian articles on railway operation.

As recently as Victorian times spelling (of a great many words) was much more fluid. It is a van to provide braking, not for staff breaks or to to do damage to trains, therefore the modern-correct spelling is "brake".

 

[Lemmy99uk]

As recently as Victorian times spelling (of a great many words) was much more fluid. It is a van to provide braking, not for staff breaks or to to do damage to trains, therefore the modern-correct spelling is "brake".

Although it could also be argued that it was provided as a safety measure should the train 'break' in two.

 

[Kneedown]

Nuclear trains in North Wales are double headed, with no brake van.

Maybe they've gone DOO now. Times have changed since I was on freight it would appear.

 

[richw]

One is in use at Penzance and Long Rock presently. Connected to the redevelopment of the depot at long rock. Stock is often left in sidings between long rock and Penzance station and always has a brake van attached.

 

[sprinterguy]

They may still be used on nuclear flask trains, and other high risk dangerous goods trains, HCN, Liquid Chlorine if still transported by rail?

The comparatively run-of-the-mill nuclear waste trains have run as formations exclusively made up of FNA flask wagons since DRS took over the nuclear traffic twenty years ago AFAIK. For higher risk consignments, DRS use a couple of mark 2 brakes as escort carriages.

 

[sprinterguy]

Is any ballast for the P/Way dropped from wagons anymore? I thought most of the hopper wagons had gone now. Most relaying jobs I've seen have ballast brought in flat wagons and it's distributed by road railers with grabs and then the road railer attaches a plough to regulate the ballast.

There are plenty of the Railtrack ordered autoballaster bogie hoppers around and in use.

I don't know whether any of the old Seacow or Sealion ballast hoppers, that were typically formed up with a Shark ballast plough van in the rake, are still in use, though I was surprised to see a rake of them at Bescot fairly recently; they weren't there when I passed through last week, though.

 

[tsr]

The comparatively run-of-the-mill nuclear waste trains have run as formations exclusively made up of FNA flask wagons since DRS took over the nuclear traffic twenty years ago AFAIK. For higher risk consignments, DRS use a couple of mark 2 brakes as escort carriages.

Some lines used by nuclear waste traffic aren't approved for DOO freight. The Lydd route is one example. So there still needs to be staff accommodation of some sort, whether it's a rear loco (if applicable), an escort vehicle or something else.

 

[Deepgreen]

Can anyone confirm if the phrases "brake van" an "break van" are both correct, as the phrase "break van" appears in certain Victorian articles on railway operation.

As with the continuing use of "slew"/"slue", "shown"/"shewn" and probably others. The grammar geek part of me wants to see consistency, but the historically-inclined part wants to see their continuance.

 

[Deepgreen]

The comparatively run-of-the-mill nuclear waste trains have run as formations exclusively made up of FNA flask wagons since DRS took over the nuclear traffic twenty years ago AFAIK. For higher risk consignments, DRS use a couple of mark 2 brakes as escort carriages.

I've never seen evidence of brake vans attached to nuclear flask trains.

 

[sprinterguy]

I've never seen evidence of brake vans attached to nuclear flask trains.

They're a common feature in sectorisation era images of nuclear flask workings, when the trains were typically class 31 or 37 hauled.

 

[Freightmaster]

I've never seen evidence of brake vans attached to nuclear flask trains.

They're a common feature in sectorisation era images of nuclear flask workings, when the trains were typically class 31 or 37 hauled.

Indeed!

https://geeceesfotts.smugmug.com/Trains/CLASS-31/i-fXGtTG5

https://www.flickr.com/photos/86020500@N06/8441116992


...and for some more info on the subject:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=27207.0



MARK

 

[Deepgreen]

Indeed!

https://geeceesfotts.smugmug.com/Trains/CLASS-31/i-fXGtTG5

https://www.flickr.com/photos/86020500@N06/8441116992


...and for some more info on the subject:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=27207.0



MARK

Well, that's another off my bucket list!

 

[trainlogger]

A brake vehicle rather than van is used with trains from East Usk Yard, Newport down to Birdport.

A shark has been used up until relatively recently however a converted container wagon is now used.

NOT MY PIC...........

Freight with Brake Van by Chris Davies, on Flickr

New wagon.........

https://flic.kr/p/zg782q

Meanwhile, further into South Wales, the unpowered half of an old Geismar multi-purpose vehicle is used by Colas Rail for similar purpose on the log trains between Briton Ferry and Baglan sidings.

Haven't seen a photo of it in action though.

 

[jopsuk]

The military nuclear waste trains run with a brake carriage housing armed guards (not in the railway sense) don't they?

 

[richw]

The military nuclear waste trains run with a brake carriage housing armed guards (not in the railway sense) don't they?

Not sure about guards, but yesterday's to Devonport had 2 seated coaches which were used for the locos outing to Penzance today as brake or barrier vehicles.

 

[Ploughman]

There are plenty of the Railtrack ordered autoballaster bogie hoppers around and in use.

I don't know whether any of the old Seacow or Sealion ballast hoppers, that were typically formed up with a Shark ballast plough van in the rake, are still in use, though I was surprised to see a rake of them at Bescot fairly recently; they weren't there when I passed through last week, though.

Over the last couple of weeks 3 trainloads of ballast has been delivered to the NYMR by 12 Seacows / Sealions working out of Doncaster.
We did think about buying some of them but price was too high. We already have 5 being renovated.

I think that 6 of the hoppers from Bescot have just been bought by the Severn Valley Rly. If they have disappeared recently that may be where they have gone. Remainder probably to scrap.

 

[D1009]

Some lines used by nuclear waste traffic aren't approved for DOO freight. The Lydd route is one example. So there still needs to be staff accommodation of some sort, whether it's a rear loco (if applicable), an escort vehicle or something else.

Can't they travel in the rear cab of the loco?

 

[DarloRich]

Is any ballast for the P/Way dropped from wagons anymore? I thought most of the hopper wagons had gone now. Most relaying jobs I've seen have ballast brought in flat wagons and it's distributed by road railers with grabs and then the road railer attaches a plough to regulate the ballast.

Apart from the auto hopper and side tipper fleet operated by NR you mean

P's also some sea cows in use but not many

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Don't all nuclear flask trains now run with two locos, to avoid being stranded? Obviously from photos above that hasn't always been the case, but I always understood it to be a pretty strict regulation these days.

 

[richw]

Don't all nuclear flask trains now run with two locos, to avoid being stranded? Obviously from photos above that hasn't always been the case, but I always understood it to be a pretty strict regulation these days.

This weeks to devonport had two locos, and 2 seated coaches. The locos and 2 seated coaches once dropped the flask went on a route refresher to Penzance, reportedly in preparation for Mazey Day specials

 

[sprinterguy]

Don't all nuclear flask trains now run with two locos, to avoid being stranded? Obviously from photos above that hasn't always been the case, but I always understood it to be a pretty strict regulation these days.

Nuclear flask trains have run with pairs of locos since DRS took over the traffic in 1997. Prior to this just a single locomotive was normally used when the trains were operated by BR.

Over the last couple of weeks 3 trainloads of ballast has been delivered to the NYMR by 12 Seacows / Sealions working out of Doncaster.
We did think about buying some of them but price was too high. We already have 5 being renovated.

I think that 6 of the hoppers from Bescot have just been bought by the Severn Valley Rly. If they have disappeared recently that may be where they have gone. Remainder probably to scrap.

That's interesting to know, thanks for your input.