Break of journey on smartcard

[DailyCommuter]

Today I had Anytime Day Single ticket loaded onto a smartcard. Whilst changing trains at Reading, I exited the barriers to buy a coffee. Afterwards when exiting at Swindon the barrier and staff member's GWR app showed the ticket as expired and I was told I would have to purchase a new ticket instead. No amount of explanation, showing the email receipt with booked train times or even the National Rail Smartcard app which still showed the ticket as Active was going to convince the staff member that I wasn’t trying to defraud GWR. “Computer says no”

Outside the station I checked the ITSO data with another app shows the ticket has been marked as used when I exited at Reading. I went back and showed him this extra data, only then did he agree it seemed like a technical issue with the break of journey.

It got me thinking, should gate line staff be able to see the tap history, as that would have showed him better what had occurred and hopefully he would have seen it was a technical issue with the break of journey on this occasion?

I also wonder how likely is it that either GWR or whoever develops the backend software will resolve this, as surely a break of journey shouldn't mark the ticket as expired?

I've emailed GWR too, so will see what they come back with.

 

[furlong]

They are continually improving, but smartcards (and electronic tickets) are still not really ready for mainstream IMHO. It's really an extended pilot that is being rolled out before the glitches and inconsistencies in the systems have been resolved. Many staff and passengers seem to understand this and make sensible allowances for the out-of-the-ordinary but some do seem to assume the system is already perfect when it is not. The important thing is to keep reporting problems to maintain the pressure for getting them all fixed.

 

[gray1404]

OP were you forced to pay more by paying for an excess or new ticket in order to exit through the barrier at Swindon or were any of your details taken?

 

[leshuttle]

Not necessarily just smartcards the problem always, but perhaps barrier ticket configuration and staff knowledge. Once or twice did a break of journey on a valid paper ticket with the same problems of claiming it was used.

 

[madjack]

I don't know if it's the same kind of issue, but recently I bought an Off-Peak Day Return from Oxford to Charlbury on the GWR app. (Validity code CDR). Looking at the ticket information on the app (pressing the I button below the QR code) it says A break of journey at intermediate stations is not permitted. I had always been sure that a CDR ticket allowed a break of journey, so was I wrong, have the terms changed, or is this a GWR app thing?

 

[Haywain]

They are continually improving, but smartcards (and electronic tickets) are still not really ready for mainstream IMHO. It's really an extended pilot that is being rolled out before the glitches and inconsistencies in the systems have been resolved. Many staff and passengers seem to understand this and make sensible allowances for the out-of-the-ordinary but some do seem to assume the system is already perfect when it is not. The important thing is to keep reporting problems to maintain the pressure for getting them all fixed.

Because nobody has ever had a problem with a paper ticket.

 

[jfollows]

I don't know if it's the same kind of issue, but recently I bought an Off-Peak Day Return from Oxford to Charlbury on the GWR app. (Validity code CDR). Looking at the ticket information on the app (pressing the I button below the QR code) it says A break of journey at intermediate stations is not permitted. I had always been sure that a CDR ticket allowed a break of journey, so was I wrong, have the terms changed, or is this a GWR app thing?

It's a GWR thing from memory, it's been reported for a few months now which makes it worse because they should have fixed it by now.
EDIT For example, #31

 

[madjack]

It's a GWR thing from memory, it's been reported for a few months now which makes it worse because they should have fixed it by now.
EDIT For example, #31

Thanks very much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem with this is the same as any other ticketing inconsistency, namely that the benefit of the doubt is not given to the passenger. Any business with quality customer care would give the customer the benefit of the doubt in the event of the "computer saying no" because the computer is often wrong.

 

[PeterC]

Is this a problem with the cards or with the gates? In overall terms it isn't a common use case, most passengers just want to get to their destinations and probably don't realise that "break of journey" is even allowed. However, considering the existance of stations where you cannot change trains without passing through the barriers, it is indicative of a sloppy approach to system design for it to have been missed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this a problem with the cards or with the gates? In overall terms it isn't a common use case, most passengers just want to get to their destinations and probably don't realise that "break of journey" is even allowed. However, considering the existance of stations where you cannot change trains without passing through the barriers, it is indicative of a sloppy approach to system design for it to have been missed.

Or a defect has been accepted, but an acceptable workaround has not been put in place.

 

[jfollows]

Because nobody has ever had a problem with a paper ticket.

Whilst you're not wrong in implying that paper tickets can cause problems, I myself have never had a problem with a paper ticket, and have used them properly and been able to break my journey when appropriate and suitable. There are scores of posts on this forum alone by people who encounter problems with non-paper tickets. I just had the opportunity to buy a railcard in "digital" form - no thank you, very much, I'm very happy with the plastic version and it will be accompanied by many paper tickets over the coming three years!

 

[Haywain]

I myself have never had a problem with a paper ticket, and have used them properly and been able to break my journey when appropriate and suitable.

In which case you are very fortunate and, I would suggest, in a minority.

There are scores of posts on this forum alone by people who encounter problems with non-paper tickets.

There are also scores of posts by people who have encountered similar problems with paper tickets, and have been for many years.

 

[bakerstreet]

Because nobody has ever had a problem with a paper ticket.

In which case you are very fortunate and, I would suggest, in a minority.

There are also scores of posts by people who have encountered similar problems with paper tickets, and have been for many years.

Whatever the ratio of issues might be with paper tickets versus other types of ticket, and I don’t know what the ratio is, perhaps we should begin to examine why passengers of a railway which has such a proud history of development and innovation has problems with both paper tickets and other tickets.

Could it be that it is not the tickets !

Could it be staff (minority) who do not seem to be in the business of providing customer service, staff (minority) who do not know the rules and fill the void by making up their own, staff (minority) who enjoy creating unnecessary friction with the travelling public and an industry which for many journeys has no meaningful competition.

Could it be because we have an industry which struggles with correctly implementing new tech, where the bigger risk coming from the failure of that tech falls to passengers and not the industry - passengers who could find themselves with a criminal record, an industry which struggles to find consistency in approach across the network, can’t have just one smart card or one app but instead prefers to offer a siloed approach of many all with limitations of use. An industry which has such complex rules and ticketing that even its own front line public facing people cannot understand them. An industry which insists on making things more complex each year and then proclaims that the issues are due to the complexity it has created.


Perhaps it is not the tickets.

 

[jfollows]

Perhaps it is not the tickets.

I take your point and agree with most of it, but from my viewpoint the problem is with the tickets because they become the gateway to incompetent and badly trained staff, which I have found avoidable when using paper tickets. That said, there is a real problem with some of the tickets, such as the case with "no break of journey" being stated when it's not the case, compounded by the industry's inability to fix this quickly enough.

But there is a long history of implementing poor solutions here, things which don't work properly, which are foisted on passengers as "improvements" which then lead to unfair prosecutions and so on.

 

[bakerstreet]

I take your point and agree with most of it, but from my viewpoint the problem is with the tickets because they become the gateway to incompetent and badly trained staff, which I have found avoidable when using paper tickets. That said, there is a real problem with some of the tickets, such as the case with "no break of journey" being stated when it's not the case, compounded by the industry's inability to fix this quickly enough.

But there is a long history of implementing poor solutions here, things which don't work properly, which are foisted on passengers as "improvements" which then lead to unfair prosecutions and so on.

I agree that I have always had more issues and less flexibility from staff re non paper tickets because they seem to be less happy disagreeing with the computer even when the computer is wrong

 

[Haywain]

"no break of journey" being stated when it's not the case, compounded by the industry's inability to fix this quickly enough.

That is not an industry problem, it is one owning group. Every other TOC manages not to do that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is not an industry problem, it is one owning group. Every other TOC manages not to do that.

Though misinformation is an industry problem. For example Virgin Trains stating on its website that the only way to change the route of a walk-up ticket was to refund less £10 and reissue, no mention of an excess available at any booking office. Or LNER, Avanti and GWR still showing trains as compulsory reservation when they are not. Or even, every TOC showing "reservations available" when they aren't really, just counted places which are a workaround to fixing the quota issue properly. All the way to cleaners saying people can board the next train with their ticket and them getting PFed or prosecuted later on.

It's utterly endemic.

 

[Watershed]

Because nobody has ever had a problem with a paper ticket.

You'd like to think that the bar is set higher than "it's no worse than what we already have"...