Brecon...railway connection?

[Gareth Marston]

Thanks for that - may get round to a walk along the trackbed from Cray to Penwyllt - or so - when this miserable weather is over. (I can remember seeing the line alongside the reservoir - but did not see a train - there werent many in 1964 !)

You could get a DVD of "Young Winston" and watch the scenes of the armoured train in the Boer War , it was all filmed just beyond Craig Y Nos.

B&R Four ways to Brecon is another good watch.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's a Hereford-Brecon service too, via Hay (the 39).

We used that service when staying for three days on a short break holiday based at the Green Dragon Hotel in Hereford. A couple of hours each way through some scenic areas. It gives enough time in Brecon to explore the local town area.

 

[Quakers Yard]

Surely a line to Dowlais wont happen until the end of Ffros y ffran.
As for extension of mountain railway...nice idea but Torpantau tunnel is a great water feature these days.
Id love to get a train to work at lucky man junction!

 

[Rhydgaled]

On a slightly related note, it'd be good to reopen the station at Pontrilas, roughly halfway between Abergavenny and Hereford. Much of the infrastructure is still there including a freight siding. There's a local campaign and it's often mentioned as an aspiration by the Herefordshire rail groups.

Obviously it's not near Brecon but it's on a long section of line without any stations.

Looking at a map, Pontrilas looks a lot smaller than Caerleon and that doesn't have a station either (I think both are probably on Railfuture's list though). There's a proposal for 3tph between Cardiff/Newport and Abergavenny I beleive, which would provide a service that could serve Caerleon if reopenned without slowing the existing services. Personally though, I think the 3rd train per hour should be extended to Hereford, where there are more onward connections (Cotswolds and Birmingham) and would also allow that stopper to serve a Pontrilas station if there's a strong case for it.

The problem would be connecting up with the line @ Merthyr Tydfil

You're right. I think that any solution would be very expensive!

I don't think the Brecon-Merthyr line of old, which I think is the route partly taken by the Brecon mountain railway, would have any merit in today's world, just too indirect. I'm not sure what the maximum gradient an EMU can cope with is, or how to accurately estimate gradients with Google Earth, but I think the only way to make a new line competitive would be for it to follow the same valley as the A470. Trains to Brecon I expect would either have to bypass Merthyr Tydfil station or reverse there. I have plotted the idea, very roughly, on my Wales new route map. I agree that it would be eyewateringly expensive and therefore probably a non-starter though. That's one of the reasons why the whole route is in red on the map, unlike the other three routes on my map which are plotted in much more detail.

a first stage would be to put in decent "semi-fast" bus links in - Carmarthen - Aberystwyth is pretty good I gather. One of the franchise bidders proposed (pre Arriva) a comprehensive all Wales feeder network - but it came to nothing.

The Carmarthen-Aberystwyth bus timetable looks pretty good, but the single route number (T1) is applied to five different routes (though only two of those are regular, roughly every 2hrs making up an hourly service). What's the point of a route number if all the different routes use the same number? It's the same story on the three routes between Cardigan and Aberystwyth, all labeled 'X50' now. Also, I think long-distance passengers are likely to find the vehicles First provide for the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth services disapointing (although I've only used them for short hops of a few minutes within Aberystwyth, so cannot really provide an informed opinion yet, I must get round to a longer trip at some point). As for franchise bidders, I once read on this forum that one of the bidders (I think it was even Arriva) proposed reopening the Bangor-Caernarfon link. Then the powers that be decided to 'no-growth' the franchise and all the improvements died. I wonder what else we've missed out on.

The T4 Traws Cymru bus route from Cardiff to Newtown is hourly to Brecon via Pontypridd and Merthyr but only 8 a day north of Brecon, the last departure from Merthyr for Newtown is 1520!

New Adventure Travel run the X63/63 Swansea - Ystradgynlais - Brecon service which every 2 hours/90 minutes.

I agree the T4 needs improving particulary an later service from Cardiff at around 1635 which gets into Newtown at around 8pm.

Hours of operation are pretty much the only problem I can see with the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth timetable too. I think the first bus from Aberystwyth should be about 30mins earlier so it reaches Carmarthen at around 08:30 instead of 9am. Also, the last northbound journey being at 19:10 is around an hour too soon I think. As for the T4, the last southbound service from Aberystwyth to Cardigan doesn't get in until 22:36 so if a 16:35 from Cardiff would reach Newtown at 8pm I think the T4 ought to be able to have the last through service leave Cardiff at 18:35 reaching Newtown at 10pm. I guess the problem is Stagecoach don't have any vehicles or staff based in Newtown. On a route that long I really think there ought to be the capability to have vehicle and driver diagrams start and finish at the extremities of the route.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

You could get a DVD of "Young Winston" and watch the scenes of the armoured train in the Boer War , it was all filmed just beyond Craig Y Nos.

B&R Four ways to Brecon is another good watch.

Yes - I observed the filming of "Young Winston" - the tray meals debris was burnt in the firebox of the 14xx tank engine ! - the Four ways to Brecon is gem of a DVD. Might just watch it with a large red wine (or two) over Xmas.

 

[Bevan Price]

The only way of providing Brecon with a fast-ish service to Cardiff or Newport would have needed something like a very long tunnel (around 10 miles) under the mountains from Brecon to either Merthyr or Ebbw Vale - far too expensive for the amount of traffic that would ever have been available.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes - I observed the filming of "Young Winston" - the tray meals debris was burnt in the firebox of the 14xx tank engine ! - the Four ways to Brecon is gem of a DVD. Might just watch it with a large red wine (or two) over Xmas.

There repeating Young Winston on terrestrial tv as part of a series of programmes to mark the 50th anniversary of Churchill's death.

 

[deltic08]

You're right. I think that any solution would be very expensive!

£1.3 billion for two miles of dual carriageway near Stonehenge has just been approved. How about a new road to Brecon and put a railway along one side?

 

[Greenback]

£1.3 billion for two miles of dual carriageway near Stonehenge has just been approved. How about a new road to Brecon and put a railway along one side?

I understand that the road near Stonehenge is prone to traffic jams, and that it is very popular with visitors and others making the journey west.

I'm not aware of any such issues with the roads to Brecon, they always seem pretty empty when I'm on them. so what would be the justification for a new road? Just to build a railway next to it?

 

[Cardiffian]

It surprises me that the Brecon area hasn't attracted a more significant heritage railway than the Mountain Railway. If some enterprising enthusiasts had thought to save a few miles of track at the time of closure, Brecon could have had a stunning steam railway through the national park. Even if it wasn't connected to the main line, it'd be a draw for tourists.

The only standard gauge heritage railway in that general area that I'm aware of is the Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway, which is gradually extending towards Brynmawr to the north and Varteg - and maybe even Pontypool - to the south.

 

[Tobbes]

A quick play with GoogleEarth suggests that the Cwm Bargoed line could be extended north via Pant and through to the Brecon Mountain Railway and then up through Torpantau Tunnel and thence to Talyllyn Junction and Brecon. No idea about the costs of getting over the A470, but it would open up the national park and Brecon to Cardiff in a way that it isn't now.

 

[Rhydgaled]

£1.3 billion for two miles of dual carriageway near Stonehenge has just been approved. How about a new road to Brecon and put a railway along one side?

I understand that the road near Stonehenge is prone to traffic jams, and that it is very popular with visitors and others making the journey west.

I'm not aware of any such issues with the roads to Brecon, they always seem pretty empty when I'm on them. so what would be the justification for a new road? Just to build a railway next to it?

Don't bother with the road, just cancel the Welsh Government's road 'upgrade' programme (all of it, eg. the M4 double bypass and Llandewi Velfrey - Penblewin) and split that budget (not necessarily equally) between public transport schemes and an emergency road repair fund (so next time a landslip closes one lane of the A487, leaving 'single line working', we don't need to wait a year for the money to fix it)

The only standard gauge heritage railway in that general area that I'm aware of is the Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway, which is gradually extending towards Brynmawr to the north and Varteg - and maybe even Pontypool - to the south.

I am only aware of three standard gauge heritage lines in the whole of Wales. The other two being Llangollen and Gwili (may have mispelt the latter).

 

[deltic08]

I understand that the road near Stonehenge is prone to traffic jams, and that it is very popular with visitors and others making the journey west.

I'm not aware of any such issues with the roads to Brecon, they always seem pretty empty when I'm on them. so what would be the justification for a new road? Just to build a railway next to it?

Playing devils advocate.

 

[Greenback]

Fair enough!

 

[davetheguard]

Middleton Press have just reprinted (November 2014) their "Brecon to Newport" and "Brecon to Neath" picture books, for anyone who's interested.

Oakwood Press' book "The Mid Wales Railway" (Brecon to Moat Lane Junction) is out of print, but if you visit their website, it is easy to cast a vote for it to be reprinted. I for one would like buy a new copy, as it's a line I know very little about, and it seems to have been very, very scenic.