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Brexit matters

nw1

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Will step back a little from this discussion now but if it shows anything, it's that the UK is still a very divided country on these matters (if this forum is representative of course). However, our government is clearly on one side (and, to be fair, I can see the political reasons for that).

I thus think whatever government we have in the future needs to work towards a compromise position who will make some consideration, at least, of the views of those of us who want a closer relationship with continental Europe.

The chances, in my view, of Truss doing that is approximately zero - but I have more hope from the other possibilities for PM by mid-decade, i.e. after the next election.

And it seems obvious to me that any country should be able to prevent people from entering for nefarious purposes (such as, coming in in order to commit crimes), and deport people found to have done that,
As long as it's really serious crimes. I would hope that migrants would not be deported for, say, speeding, or other minor crimes of a similar nature.
 
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RT4038

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Will step back a little from this discussion now but if it shows anything, it's that the UK is still a very divided country on these matters (if this forum is representative of course). However, our government is clearly on one side (and, to be fair, I can see the political reasons for that).

I thus think whatever government we have in the future needs to work towards a compromise position who will make some consideration, at least, of the views of those of us who want a closer relationship with continental Europe.

The chances, in my view, of Truss doing that is approximately zero - but I have more hope from the other possibilities for PM by mid-decade, i.e. after the next election.
It will take a little time (and effort on both sides - the NI situation needs resolving and that is going to take some compromise on both sides). A close relationship should be possible, and desirable, just not quite the one we have just come out of. (Really good friends, rather than married!)

Yes, I think that is a key issue with EU Freedom of Movement. It does sound positive if the EU is thinking about a language requirement.

I think the problem with FoM as set up by the EU was that it became all about rights, with no sense of corresponding responsibilities. To my mind, if I chose to emigrate to another country, it seems obvious that should come with a responsibility on my part to learn the local language, and to familiarize myself with that country's law, customs, way of life, etc. as a minimum so that I don't for example end up acting in ways that would be normal in the UK, but would come across as offensive or threatening to most people in that country. To me it therefore seems perfectly reasonable that any country should be able to impose requirements on would-be immigrants to do likewise, but EU FoM rules - as far as I can make out - prevented that.

I think I'd also feel some responsibility to attempt to integrate with the local communities and to seek to contribute to life there - and not end up forming part of a 'British' ghetto in that country. That kind of thing is much harder to regulate because it's very much in the realm of, personal lifestyle choices; but even so, it does seem to me concerning that EU FoM rules make no acknowledgement of that as an important part of migration.

And it seems obvious to me that any country should be able to prevent people from entering for nefarious purposes (such as, coming in in order to commit crimes), and deport people found to have done that, and that any country should be able to determine what immigration level they can reasonably accommodate, and impose restrictions if immigration levels become too high. Once again, something that historically hasn't been recognised in FoM rules.
As if us Brits have done of this when we have emigrated abroad (anywhere in the world) in any numbers. Just not going to happen with ordinary people, whether ours or from elsewhere coming here. FoM is just an impractical concept unless it is between countries of more or less equal culture and economic conditions. I am not blaming the individual immigrants - they are doing the best for themselves and their families - FoM with countries of a disparate wealth to us is just asking for trouble - we would not dream of signing an FoM with Nigeria as we know exactly what would happen. Not that people from a particular country or countries should be refused per se, but there has to be sensible controls to prevent our own experience happening again. Minimise disruption to social cohesion.
 
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najaB

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The geographic distribution of industry is largely under the control of the market. The Government tries to influence it of course, to try to balance opportunities across the country or for all sorts of political reasons, but usually has only partial success.
So, in other words, "levelling up" is a con?
 

Cloud Strife

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Yes, I think that is a key issue with EU Freedom of Movement. It does sound positive if the EU is thinking about a language requirement.

I think the problem with FoM as set up by the EU was that it became all about rights, with no sense of corresponding responsibilities. To my mind, if I chose to emigrate to another country, it seems obvious that should come with a responsibility on my part to learn the local language, and to familiarize myself with that country's law, customs, way of life, etc. as a minimum so that I don't for example end up acting in ways that would be normal in the UK, but would come across as offensive or threatening to most people in that country. To me it therefore seems perfectly reasonable that any country should be able to impose requirements on would-be immigrants to do likewise, but EU FoM rules - as far as I can make out - prevented that.

I think I'd also feel some responsibility to attempt to integrate with the local communities and to seek to contribute to life there - and not end up forming part of a 'British' ghetto in that country. That kind of thing is much harder to regulate because it's very much in the realm of, personal lifestyle choices; but even so, it does seem to me concerning that EU FoM rules make no acknowledgement of that as an important part of migration.
Let me preface this by saying that I'm a huge supporter of the EU, but:

Yes, I think the big issue is that the EU leadership never imagined the kind of mass population movements that took place post-2004. It seems to me that the EU12 (and subsequently EU15) thought that it would progress on the same way that it had been prior to Schengen and the Customs Union, where people would take jobs in border areas, but nothing more. You can see how it evolved in the 1980s in Strasbourg/Kehl, where the two cities have effectively merged by now. That meant very little controls on FoM, and when it became clear in 2005-6 that FoM was resulting in significant problems, the A8 (subsequently A11) group of countries were strong enough to resist any controls on FoM. I remember the Brexit referendum as seen from the Polish perspective, and it was absolutely clear that the Polish government was not going to agree to any concessions on limiting FoM.

There was some degree of warning in how the Brits formed enclaves in Spain, and how the UK criminal element found refuge in Spain. Yet, it seems that it wasn't taken seriously, probably because the Brits themselves didn't really use things like schools there. I was chatting with one pub owner in February, and he reckoned that out of all his mates, only 10% at most could speak passable Spanish.

With regards to limits: yes, in hindsight, I suspect the EU15 would have imposed limits before the 2004/7/13 accessions if they knew what was going to happen. The lack of limits have caused a demographic disaster in parts of the EU, such as in Eastern Poland, and there are sociological consequences that are being largely ignored in the pursuit of FoM. For instance, what happened in Eastern Poland: children left with grandparents while the parents worked abroad, or one parent being mostly absent for years so that they could build a big house in the countryside. The effects of this will be felt for generations, and that's before we even discuss the major brain drain that took place in the A11 countries.

The question is: how do you limit people? One option could have been to require A11 workers to get a work permit, and only to issue the work permit if the proposed place of residence could accommodate them. But that would require a huge amount of data and investment, and even then, I'm really not sure how feasible it would be in practice. Another option would be to simply impose a hard limit, but at the same time, the UK (and others) quite happily found places for them to work. Maybe one possible option would have been to impose a 'migration tax' to expand public services, but then again: they already pay the same tax anyway.

I thus think whatever government we have in the future needs to work towards a compromise position who will make some consideration, at least, of the views of those of us who want a closer relationship with continental Europe.

I think that once the Johnson era (and I'd include Truss in this) is consigned to history, we'll see a quick agreement with the EU on a wide range of things. I could even see limited FoM returning for workers in exchange for financial passporting rights.

As long as it's really serious crimes. I would hope that migrants would not be deported for, say, speeding, or other minor crimes of a similar nature.

I think this was and is one of the major problems with FoM: it allows convicted criminals to simply move abroad. It should have been clear from 2004 onwards that anyone convicted of a serious crime (let's say one where they were imprisoned for the sake of argument) would have to obtain a visa/residence permit and that FoM wouldn't be in place for them. But again, this would have required a system where it could be monitored, and that would be quite difficult without abandoning Schengen.

I don't think there are really any easy answers, and some of the UK concerns were valid (such as not being able to block known criminals from entering). The UK did need a brake by the time that the EU referendum came around, and had Cameron been given the right to limit migration and benefits for 4-5 years, Remain probably would have won.

(on the benefits topic: I always thought that benefits should have been capped at the 'home' country level. It was clearly a very sore point for many Leave voters...)
 

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dosxuk

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Many of these issues can be traced, not to the EU, but to UK Government.

Firstly, the EU grants the rights to Freedom of Movement of Labour - EU citizens are permitted to travel and live in any other EU country for the purpose of working - it doesn't grant the right of just choosing to up sticks and it doesn't require the local authorities to assist or support non-workers. Many EU countries require people moving to demonstrate that they are working (or can support themselves) and to register with the authorities - the UK Government decided this was too much effort.

Secondly, the question of where these people are moving to really needs to be looked at in more detail - sure Wisbech has a higher migrant population than it can support - but why are so many people wanting to live there? Is it because of the majestic views, the plentiful tourist attractions, the amazing transport links, or is it because that is where there is the demand for jobs? If the latter, then surely the lack of housing, transport, schools, hospitals, etc is not because there are too many immigrants, but because the area has too many people working for what the Government has allowed for. Wisbech and the other fen towns are struggling, but not because of the immigrants overrunning the place, but because there are too many jobs for the local infrastructure to support - so we either need to build that infrastructure out or stop employing so many people (even if UK residents worked in those jobs, they would still need the same levels of infrastructure (or higher - many Eastern Europeans are young, healthy and don't have children, so need fewer schools or hospitals per-person compared to the average Brit))/.
 

najaB

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(even if UK residents worked in those jobs, they would still need the same levels of infrastructure (or higher - many Eastern Europeans are young, healthy and don't have children, so need fewer schools or hospitals per-person compared to the average Brit))
This. Exactly. It doesn't matter what passport someone holds - they will still need a house, still get ill, still have children who need to go to school, etc.
 

Cloud Strife

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Firstly, the EU grants the rights to Freedom of Movement of Labour - EU citizens are permitted to travel and live in any other EU country for the purpose of working - it doesn't grant the right of just choosing to up sticks and it doesn't require the local authorities to assist or support non-workers. Many EU countries require people moving to demonstrate that they are working (or can support themselves) and to register with the authorities - the UK Government decided this was too much effort.

There is a problem here. While you can be deported (and France in particular is/was deporting many Romanian Roma), there's nothing preventing you from coming straight back.

There's a good article here on this topic - https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25419423

Many of the evicted Roma end up being deported - almost 11,000 Romanian nationals were deported from France last year, more than any other immigrant group. Being a citizen of a European Union country offers little protection as EU law allows a member country to expel people who are deemed a burden on its social system.

But then you had this...


France was forced on to the defensive over Nicolas Sarkozy's crackdown on the Roma population today after the European commission threatened the French government with legal action, labelling the policy disgraceful and comparing it to second world war deportations.

So in practice, the EU frowns upon such deportations. It's also very possible to simply up sticks and move abroad: in PL, one estimate is that only as little as 25% of all Brits resident bothered to have a residence certificate/permanent residence before Brexit. In many cases, people simply don't bother registering because they simply don't need to. In Poland, most EU foreigners don't bother to register because it's a pain to do so, and you can work/live without it.

You're right that the UK could have done it like that, and they really should have. One major problem was that the UK simply didn't even know where people were, due to the lack of a registration obligation.


Secondly, the question of where these people are moving to really needs to be looked at in more detail - sure Wisbech has a higher migrant population than it can support - but why are so many people wanting to live there? Is it because of the majestic views, the plentiful tourist attractions, the amazing transport links, or is it because that is where there is the demand for jobs? If the latter, then surely the lack of housing, transport, schools, hospitals, etc is not because there are too many immigrants, but because the area has too many people working for what the Government has allowed for. Wisbech and the other fen towns are struggling, but not because of the immigrants overrunning the place, but because there are too many jobs for the local infrastructure to support -

No argument here. One thing though, is that migrants did tend to go to places where there was plentiful low-skill work that the locals didn't want and low housing costs, and Wisbech met that criteria perfectly.

so we either need to build that infrastructure out or stop employing so many people (even if UK residents worked in those jobs, they would still need the same levels of infrastructure (or higher - many Eastern Europeans are young, healthy and don't have children, so need fewer schools or hospitals per-person compared to the average Brit))/.

There is one thing that you haven't accounted for: the "Eastern Europeans" (BTW, most of them are central Europeans ;)) were very, very quick to use as much of the infrastructure as they could. Poles, for instance, are hypochondriacs, and they are used to running to the doctor over very minor things. If you've got a Polish mother with two kids, then she will be reaching for the doctor every time the children have a sniffle, whereas our culture is much more suck-it-up-and-get-on-with-it.

It was the same with the benefits system: they were very quick to claim everything they could. The situation where they could claim child benefits for kids that were still resident abroad was a major screw up, especially before Poland got its own child benefit system.

The thing is: all of this could be avoided by simply using existing EU laws. The UK chose not to do so.
 

alex397

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The EU is literally not mentioned in the story. It's a problem with the French Border Police if you bother to read it.
It’s easy to blame the French for everything. And yes, the French authorities are partly the reason behind the delays. But it certainly doesn’t help that each passport has to be stamped, and processing now takes longer because of…. Brexit.
I’m sure the Port of Dover and other relevant authorities have worked hard to prepare for this, but it seems predictably lazy to blame it all on the French.
 

AlterEgo

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It’s easy to blame the French for everything. And yes, the French Border Force are partly the reason behind the delays. But it certainly doesn’t help that each passport has to be stamped, and processing now takes longer because of…. Brexit.
No, sorry, it's the French Border Police's fault there are delays, that's all. This one is 100% on the French, just like how if we fail to staff our passport kiosks at Heathrow it's 100% our fault.

Blaming Brexit is facile because if I go to the USA with an ESTA and stand in the ESTA line for two hours, this is not the fault of the ESTA requirement (which is a relatively recent introduction!), but rather CBP not staffing an airport properly.
 

Cloud Strife

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It’s easy to blame the French for everything. And yes, the French Border Force are partly the reason behind the delays. But it certainly doesn’t help that each passport has to be stamped, and processing now takes longer because of…. Brexit.

The infrastructure is also to blame. Dover simply isn't designed as a non-EU border.

(picture: passport control at the Port of Dover)

-1x-1.jpg


You can see here that it's simply woefully inadequate for the amount of traffic. It was fine pre-Brexit, because the French controls were often just a wave of the passport, or they were sometimes unmanned. Now with each passport being scanned and stamped, it's taking up a lot more time.

@AlterEgo The question for me is who is to blame for only 6 out of 12 lanes being open. There's a common problem on the SLO/HR border in that the Slovenians don't want to open all the lanes during busy times, while the Croatians are very good at doing so. Yet if Slovenia doesn't staff all the lanes, then Croatia can't do anything about it, as the controls are usually in the same format as in Dover (so-called 'one stop control'). We don't know if it's the French PAF or UKBF to blame here.
 

TwoYellas

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Must admit - shocking amounts of generalisations regarding different nationalities going on here by little Englanders. Yeah sure everyone bad. Your own subset of Brits - always great people!

Absolute........

Hope the Tories betray the hard right loons and continue more and more immigration, which I think they will.
 

alex397

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No, sorry, it's the French Border Police's fault there are delays, that's all. This one is 100% on the French, just like how if we fail to staff our passport kiosks at Heathrow it's 100% our fault.

Blaming Brexit is facile because if I go to the USA with an ESTA and stand in the ESTA line for two hours, this is not the fault of the ESTA requirement (which is a relatively recent introduction!), but rather CBP not staffing an airport properly.
Nope. It’s lazy to blame it all on the French authorities. The delays would not be as bad if we didn’t have Brexit. So it’s not 100% down to the French authorities.

And I’m not sure why we have to keep saying it’s ‘the French’ as if it’s the whole nation and all it’s people to blame.
 

AlterEgo

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Nope. It’s lazy to blame it all on the French authorities. The delays would not be as bad if we didn’t have Brexit. So it’s not 100% down to the French authorities.
No, it is 100% down to them not having the proper staffing capability, that's all.

And I’m not sure why we have to keep saying it’s ‘the French’ as if it’s the whole nation and all it’s people to blame.
Of course you would always be very specific when referring to "the French" when you really mean their government. 20 seconds on the search function:
hopefully if and when Covid calms down the French won’t want to restrict their citizens from visiting the UK.
 

alex397

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No, it is 100% down to them not having the proper staffing capability, that's all.
Nope, wrong again. It’s not 100% down to them. What would the queues be like if we didn’t have a hard Brexit? The same?
Of course you would always be very specific when referring to "the French" when you really mean their government. 20 seconds on the search function:
That’s why I said ‘why do we’ keep referring to them as ‘the French’. Me included. It’s the wrong language to use.
 

AlterEgo

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Nope, wrong again. It’s not 100% down to them. What would the queues be like if we didn’t have a hard Brexit? The same?
What would queues be like at JFK if there wasn't an ESTA requirement, or the need to take fingerprints, for example? If I go to JFK and wait two hours to get into the country it's not the fault of "ESTAs and fingerprints", it's because CBP don't staff the border appropriately.

It is very fashionable to blame Brexit for everything but that is the reality of where we are, and today, the problem is France being unable to staff their port of entry correctly.
 

RT4038

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So, in other words, "levelling up" is a con?
I think that is taking the 'levelling-up' a little too literally. It was never going to be done by a moving over to a command economy, or by making every part of the country the same.
 

AlterEgo

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I think that is taking the 'levelling-up' a little too literally. It was never going to be done by a moving over to a command economy, or by making every part of the country the same.
Levelling up is a con though, it's just pork-barrel politics to Red Wall and other northern Tory constituencies for the most part - at least in terms of the motiviation.
 

najaB

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No, sorry, it's the French Border Police's fault there are delays, that's all. This one is 100% on the French, just like how if we fail to staff our passport kiosks at Heathrow it's 100% our fault.
And why, exactly, are these border checks required this year when they weren't in years past?
 

DynamicSpirit

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Must admit - shocking amounts of generalisations regarding different nationalities going on here by little Englanders. Yeah sure everyone bad. Your own subset of Brits - always great people!

Maybe I've missed something, but I've not seen anything in this thread that looks to me like a 'shocking' 'generalisation regarding different nationalities'. It looks to me like most people posting are being very careful to distinguish where they are talking about behaviour by *some* people. I also haven't seen anything that plausibly looks like anyone is being a 'little Englander'. No-one is claiming that the English are in any way superior to other people, and no-one seems to be posting in a xenophobic way. Are you sure you're not either misreading posts or just tarring people you disagree with with attitudes that they do not actually have? If people here are actually being 'little Englanders' then maybe you could provide examples?
 

RT4038

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Levelling up is a con though, it's just pork-barrel politics to Red Wall and other northern Tory constituencies for the most part - at least in terms of the motiviation.
Depends what you were expecting I suppose?
 

DynamicSpirit

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Nope, wrong again. It’s not 100% down to them. What would the queues be like if we didn’t have a hard Brexit? The same?

It would be reasonable to blame Brexit if the queues were an inevitable result of Brexit. But from what we can tell from the BBC story, they aren't: Brexit happened over 2 years ago. I can't imagine that it takes over 2 years to train a passport/customs control officer, so it would appear that the French (Government, if you want to be pedantic) had ample time to ensure there were enough border staff to man the port at Dover. For whatever reason, they haven't. Assuming there isn't something important that is missing from the BBC report, that would therefore appear to be the fault of the French Government.

So, in other words, "levelling up" is a con?

I wouldn't say it's a con: It's an honest and noble aim that the UK Government is pursuing. But it's likely to be a very difficult thing to achieve. Given that this is the UK and not North Korea, you can't just order businesses to move to areas that you want to level up - all you can do as a Government is provide the conditions in poorer areas that would make it more likely that businesses would want to be based in those areas, or that people would want to start businesses in those areas. That's not impossible, but is easier said than done.
 
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najaB

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It would be reasonable to blame Brexit if the queues were an inevitable result of Brexit. But from what we can tell from the BBC story, they aren't: Brexit happened over 2 years ago. I can't imagine that it takes over 2 years to train a passport/customs control officer, so it would appear that the French (Government, if you want to be pedantic) had ample time to ensure there were enough border staff to man the port at Dover. For whatever reason, they haven't. Assuming there isn't something important that is missing from the BBC report, that would therefore appear to be the fault of the French Government.
Here's a question: Are queues at Dover a problem for the French?

Follow-up question: What incentive is there for the French to invest in increased border resources, given the UK government's generally hostile attitude towards the EU?
 

WelshBluebird

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Before we start throwing stones whilst sat in a glass house, I'll remind this thread about the chaos at British airports at the moment. I suspect they have had exactly the same issues in staffing their ports as we have had with our airports.
 

TwoYellas

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They watch Polish TV, and they have a very hostile attitude towards the UK in general, along the lines of "the country is to give me because I deserve it". Then there's the constant insults about fat British kids (nevermind the fact that Polish kids aren't doing much better in this respect!) and insults about the educational system, and they also have the same problem as Serbs with believing things like "Polonophobia" because it's what they've read on far right Polish websites and Facebook groups.

There is one thing that you haven't accounted for: the "Eastern Europeans" (BTW, most of them are central Europeans ;)) were very, very quick to use as much of the infrastructure as they could. Poles, for instance, are hypochondriacs, and they are used to running to the doctor over very minor things. If you've got a Polish mother with two kids, then she will be reaching for the doctor every time the children have a sniffle, whereas our culture is much more suck-it-up-and-get-on-with-it.

It was the same with the benefits system: they were very quick to claim everything they could. The situation where they could claim child benefits for kids that were still resident abroad was a major screw up, especially before Poland got its own child benefit system.

Maybe I've missed something, but I've not seen anything in this thread that looks to me like a 'shocking' 'generalisation regarding different nationalities'.
@DynamicSpirit.

I didn't have to look very far to find a couple of quotes (see first 2 above). It's clear what it is, you seem to be backing it. Not getting a very good image of yourself. Maybe you agree that calling a family "scummy" is ok too.
So yes, I totally understand where the locals are coming from. I once told one scummy Polish family on the bus in London that a) I could understand them and b) they should show more respect towards their hosts, and they were shocked that a Brit could speak their language.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Here's a question: Are queues at Dover a problem for the French?

I guess that depends on the extent to which French citizens are caught in the same queues.

Follow-up question: What incentive is there for the French to invest in increased border resources, given the UK government's generally hostile attitude towards the EU?

I would assume that the incentive is the same incentive that any country has to provide reasonable facilities for entry: If you make it too hard for visitors to come into your country, you lose tourist income, and eventually lose business income.
 

alex397

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It would be reasonable to blame Brexit if the queues were an inevitable result of Brexit. But from what we can tell from the BBC story, they aren't: Brexit happened over 2 years ago. I can't imagine that it takes over 2 years to train a passport/customs control officer, so it would appear that the French (Government, if you want to be pedantic) had ample time to ensure there were enough border staff to man the port at Dover. For whatever reason, they haven't. Assuming there isn't something important that is missing from the BBC report, that would therefore appear to be the fault of the French Government.
.
Well, this year is the first year when Brexit is really having an impact on international travel, because of Covid.

I am not being pedantic by talking about the French government/authorities rather than ‘the French’. I think it’s very important to differentiate.

Also, while the French authorities should be set up properly to handle post-Brexit travel, it’s hardly a priority for them considering Brexit is our own doing.

Lastly, it will be interesting to know what has caused the issues with the French border control. Dover’s lovely kind and compassionate MP Natalie Elphicke claimed it’s because the French border staff “didn’t turn up to work”, a comment which reinforces the stereotype of the French being lazy. Would be interesting to know if there are staff shortages similar to what we have been having, or staff sickness, or if it is what people like Elphicke really want it to be - French workers deciding they just didn’t want to go to work today.
 
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DynamicSpirit

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Well, this year is the first year when Brexit is really having an impact on international travel, because of Covid.

OK. So if your point is that, it's the first year of international travel and there are therefore teething problems getting the post-Brexit arrangements it all set up correctly which you'd expect to be resolved over the next few months, then I'd agree that would be fair to mention Brexit. Was that your point?

I am not being pedantic by talking about the French government/authorities rather than ‘the French’. I think it’s very important to differentiate.

I would say that it's important to differentiate if there is a reasonable possibility of confusion. If - as in this case - it's blindingly obvious from the context that you can only be talking about the French Government, and no reasonable person would think otherwise, then it would seem OK to just say 'the French'. It's more concise, and saying, 'the French' or 'the British' or 'the Americans' etc. when the context makes it clear which group within that country you're referring to is a perfectly normal part of the English language. Think for example about how often, when reporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we say, 'the Ukrainians' or 'Ukraine' when we are obviously actually referring to 'the Ukrainian Government' or 'some Ukrainian soldiers' etc. I suspect you don't object to that usage.

Also, while the French authorities should be set up properly to handle post-Brexit travel, it’s hardly a priority for them considering Brexit is our own doing.

That sounds like you're saying that it's reasonable and OK for the French to take a carelessly vindictive attitude towards UK citizens on the grounds of blaming the UK for Brexit. Hopefully, it's obvious that it's not OK for any country to take that attitude.
 

RT4038

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Well, this year is the first year when Brexit is really having an impact on international travel, because of Covid.

I am not being pedantic by talking about the French government/authorities rather than ‘the French’. I think it’s very important to differentiate.

Also, while the French authorities should be set up properly to handle post-Brexit travel, it’s hardly a priority for them considering Brexit is our own doing.

Lastly, it will be interesting to know what has caused the issues with the French border control. Dover’s lovely kind and compassionate MP Natalie Elphicke claimed it’s because the French border staff “didn’t turn up to work”, a comment which reinforces the stereotype of the French being lazy. Would be interesting to know if there are staff shortages similar to what we have been having, or staff sickness, or if it is what people like Elphicke really want it to be - French workers deciding they just didn’t want to go to work today.
No doubt you are right. The UK is not good at coping with peak travel days (Dover, Heathrow or anywhere else) before Covid, let alone after, so can hardly throw stones. Staff difficulties abound here and I expect the same in France and other European countries (see thread on suspension of Cologne S-bahn due to staff sickness). No doubt Brexit hasn't helped either - surely there was an expectation after the Divorce from the EU that there will be all sorts of issues until we can settle down again as good friends. People don't like being divorced from, usually (treachery and all that), so it'll take a while. I don't expect this is such a significant factor though.
 

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