Brexit matters

[21C101]

Hyperbole has gone up a notch I see. From being accused of comparing the EU with a Brutal Dictatorship to being accused of saying that the EU are a Brutal Dictatorship and being accused of stirring up anti EU feelings (they are good enough at that themselves without me needing to help them).

Oh dear. I think some people need to calm down and try and debate cooly and rationally and start playing the ball not the man.

And also learn that Europeans, who by and large are our friend are not the same thing as the European Union which is a political Institution.

 

[class ep-09]

Lets wait a few years on that rather than a few weeks. Goodnight.

I did hear this same rubbish 30 , then 20 , then 10 years ago and I am hearing it now . Lol

In fact, whether you like it or not EU , US and China are 3 powers that matter now in the world .

UK unfortunately can kiss goodbye to much of its influence , that it had while being one of the leaders of the EU.

 

[najaB]

Oh dear. I think some people need to calm down and try and debate cooly and rationally and start playing the ball not the man

That's been rather difficult so far, given that the man keeps being changing the ball.

 

[REVUpminster]

The EU and it's predecessor the EC was created in the 50s to stop Germany and France fighting each other after two world wars so all the rules are programmed to suit them. DeGaulle knew this when he vetoed our entry. Strasburg is a nonsense to placate the French. When we entered the EU we were seen as the middleman. As the EU grew so did the Brussels bureaucracy and as they took more power the UK reduced it's civil service that allowed the EU to give back some of our money in regional funding as the EU did throughout Europe.
The Euro was created so that Germany and France would become richer as other EU members had to buy German and French goods because cheaper good outside the EU face big tariffs. The euro has made southern Europe much poorer. British business knew how to work the system using cheap labour creating more jobs than anybody else.

The French closed the border to lorries recently trapping mainly overseas drivers this side of the channel. They were soon put in their place by Brussels.
The vaccine fiasco in Europe has it's roots in France wanting it's company Sanofi to produce the vaccine for Europe but their vaccine failed and they are having to change to produce the Pfizer vaccine which will take months.

I would say that the saying re covid nobody is safe to everybody is safe should mean we should offer vaccine to Ireland to keep up with Northern Ireland as free movement is still allowed between the UK and Ireland because of historic agreements but would the EU allow it. Ireland still owes the UK millions from the 2008 bailout so they could still buy UK goods. Germany sanctions loans via the EU so the poorer EU countries can buy German goods because cheaper goods outside the EU have heavy tariffs.

That's why I called it a protection racket. We lost the benefits of a club that rushed through a deal with China ignoring the human rights violations and Germany is the largest EU importer of Russian gas.

 

[Dave1987]

Hyperbole has gone up a notch I see. From being accused of comparing the EU with a Brutal Dictatorship to being accused of saying that the EU are a Brutal Dictatorship and being accused of stirring up anti EU feelings (they are good enough at that themselves without me needing to help them).

Oh dear. I think some people need to calm down and try and debate cooly and rationally and start playing the ball not the man.

And also learn that Europeans, who by and large are our friend are not the same thing as the European Union which is a political Institution.

Sorry but you cannot quip about the "EUSSR" and not be accused of calling the EU a brutal dictatorship.

The amount the likes of the Telegraph, Daily Mail and Daily Express attempt to stir up EU hatred and with people like yourself whose hatred of the EU is palpable, is there any wonder that relations between the UK and EU look to be at an all-time low?

The EU and it's predecessor the EC was created in the 50s to stop Germany and France fighting each other after two world wars so all the rules are programmed to suit them. DeGaulle knew this when he vetoed our entry. Strasburg is a nonsense to placate the French. When we entered the EU we were seen as the middleman. As the EU grew so did the Brussels bureaucracy and as they took more power the UK reduced it's civil service that allowed the EU to give back some of our money in regional funding as the EU did throughout Europe.
The Euro was created so that Germany and France would become richer as other EU members had to buy German and French goods because cheaper good outside the EU face big tariffs. The euro has made southern Europe much poorer. British business knew how to work the system using cheap labour creating more jobs than anybody else.

The French closed the border to lorries recently trapping mainly overseas drivers this side of the channel. They were soon put in their place by Brussels.
The vaccine fiasco in Europe has it's roots in France wanting it's company Sanofi to produce the vaccine for Europe but their vaccine failed and they are having to change to produce the Pfizer vaccine which will take months.

I would say that the saying re covid nobody is safe to everybody is safe should mean we should offer vaccine to Ireland to keep up with Northern Ireland as free movement is still allowed between the UK and Ireland because of historic agreements but would the EU allow it. Ireland still owes the UK millions from the 2008 bailout so they could still buy UK goods. Germany sanctions loans via the EU so the poorer EU countries can buy German goods because cheaper goods outside the EU have heavy tariffs.

That's why I called it a protection racket. We lost the benefits of a club that rushed through a deal with China ignoring the human rights violations and Germany is the largest EU importer of Russian gas.

Hasn’t the UK parliament just voted to allow the UK Government to do trade deals with human rights violators? Doesn’t the UK have an arms deals with Saudi Arabia which is accused of human rights violations? People in glass houses should not throw stones.....

 

[GusB]

Lets wait a few years on that rather than a few weeks. Goodnight.

A few years? A few days may be too long for British businesses which rely on speedy transit of their produce to the continent in order to maintain the freshness and quality on which they've built their reputations - reputations that have probably been built up over years, but can be destroyed within a few hours if the product is not in tip-top condition when it gets to where it's supposed to be.

The EU and it's predecessor the EC was created in the 50s to stop Germany and France fighting each other after two world wars so all the rules are programmed to suit them. DeGaulle knew this when he vetoed our entry. Strasburg is a nonsense to placate the French. When we entered the EU we were seen as the middleman. As the EU grew so did the Brussels bureaucracy and as they took more power the UK reduced it's civil service that allowed the EU to give back some of our money in regional funding as the EU did throughout Europe.
The Euro was created so that Germany and France would become richer as other EU members had to buy German and French goods because cheaper good outside the EU face big tariffs. The euro has made southern Europe much poorer. British business knew how to work the system using cheap labour creating more jobs than anybody else.

The French closed the border to lorries recently trapping mainly overseas drivers this side of the channel. They were soon put in their place by Brussels.
The vaccine fiasco in Europe has it's roots in France wanting it's company Sanofi to produce the vaccine for Europe but their vaccine failed and they are having to change to produce the Pfizer vaccine which will take months.

I would say that the saying re covid nobody is safe to everybody is safe should mean we should offer vaccine to Ireland to keep up with Northern Ireland as free movement is still allowed between the UK and Ireland because of historic agreements but would the EU allow it. Ireland still owes the UK millions from the 2008 bailout so they could still buy UK goods. Germany sanctions loans via the EU so the poorer EU countries can buy German goods because cheaper goods outside the EU have heavy tariffs.

That's why I called it a protection racket. We lost the benefits of a club that rushed through a deal with China ignoring the human rights violations and Germany is the largest EU importer of Russian gas.

It's hardly worth replying to this; very little of it makes any sense.

Hasn’t the UK parliament just voted to allow the UK Government to do trade deals with human rights violators? Doesn’t the UK have an arms deals with Saudi Arabia which is accused of human rights violations? People in glass houses should not throw stones.....

You're banging your head against a brick wall with this one, @Dave1987 - human rights violations only count when it's not us doing it. Chagos Islands, anyone?

Britannia waives the rules

 

[class ep-09]

The EU and it's predecessor the EC was created in the 50s to stop Germany and France fighting each other after two world wars so all the rules are programmed to suit them. DeGaulle knew this when he vetoed our entry. Strasburg is a nonsense to placate the French. When we entered the EU we were seen as the middleman. As the EU grew so did the Brussels bureaucracy and as they took more power the UK reduced it's civil service that allowed the EU to give back some of our money in regional funding as the EU did throughout Europe.
The Euro was created so that Germany and France would become richer as other EU members had to buy German and French goods because cheaper good outside the EU face big tariffs. The euro has made southern Europe much poorer. British business knew how to work the system using cheap labour creating more jobs than anybody else.

The French closed the border to lorries recently trapping mainly overseas drivers this side of the channel. They were soon put in their place by Brussels.
The vaccine fiasco in Europe has it's roots in France wanting it's company Sanofi to produce the vaccine for Europe but their vaccine failed and they are having to change to produce the Pfizer vaccine which will take months.

I would say that the saying re covid nobody is safe to everybody is safe should mean we should offer vaccine to Ireland to keep up with Northern Ireland as free movement is still allowed between the UK and Ireland because of historic agreements but would the EU allow it. Ireland still owes the UK millions from the 2008 bailout so they could still buy UK goods. Germany sanctions loans via the EU so the poorer EU countries can buy German goods because cheaper goods outside the EU have heavy tariffs.

That's why I called it a protection racket. We lost the benefits of a club that rushed through a deal with China ignoring the human rights violations and Germany is the largest EU importer of Russian gas.

Where to start picking your drivel apart ?

You won get over it, should suffice for start , I think.

I can’t stop myself laughing so I picked couple of lies you spouted :

Brussels employs less bureaucrats than City of Birmingham.
Considering that the EU has 400-500mil citizens, that is a very good good deal.

Imposing tariffs is not protection racket it is a default position, if you trade under WTO rules without Free Trade Agreement .
Do you remember WTO ?

Yes, it is this same WTO brexiters love so much.
Btw- has any brexiter voted for being a member of WTO , its rules and its bureaucrats?
I think , not .

Countries , industries and producers based in EU , want to be protected by tariffs, in case cheap imports kills their business.
What is wrong with protecting its own people and livelihoods ?

Rules squared to suite French and German ?

Why 27 countries joined the block ( recently 28) + few more in EEA.

Nobody forced ANY of the countries to join. They see benefits of being in the club.

Enough said , I can’t fix what is broken , and your mind and world view needs complete overhaul, so I am leaving you to it .

 

[REVUpminster]

I am sure Europhiles will donate their parents vaccine dose to the EU. The EU policy was to rely on French Sanofi to provide the bulk of vaccines and other countries pay top dollar for the German pfizer vaccine.

Now they want the UK/Swedish vaccine that charges cost price. They are hypocrites of the first order. Of course any critic of the EU brings out the worst in the Europhiles.

The EU does not believe in free trade but hides behind it's tariff wall.

 

[birchesgreen]

OK Nige

 

[21C101]

with people like yourself whose hatred of the EU is palpable

That is hyperbolic, over emotional and wholly uncalled for, and frankly, bordering on defamatory.

Yes, like many I dislike the EU, I don't have an emotional irrational fixation with something that is an inanimate object.

I don't have hatred for people I don't like either. Apart from anything else it is futile and makes you prone to unreason and dwelling on something when it is better to move on and forget about it (something I will soon be doing with this thread).

The word "Hatred" is banded around as a convenient emotional smear all too often when people are defeated in an argument or debate, which devalues its use in the much rarer appropriate situations.

It saddens me to see this happen here.

 

[class ep-09]

I am sure Europhiles will donate their parents vaccine dose to the EU. The EU policy was to rely on French Sanofi to provide the bulk of vaccines and other countries pay top dollar for the German pfizer vaccine.

Now they want the UK/Swedish vaccine that charges cost price. They are hypocrites of the first order. Of course any critic of the EU brings out the worst in the Europhiles.

The EU does not believe in free trade but hides behind it's tariff wall.

More word salad .

EU invested very heavily in to development of AZ vaccine including financing building production facilities so no surprise they want to get it asap.

I know very little of Europhiles no I am not one myself, but I do know some facts about EU , contrary to the “facts” brexiters can produce.

Also, I would rather be in a country that has vaccines bit later , but avoids many thousand unnecessary deaths due to its government incompetence .

If you compare EU’s countries to UK the numbers do not look that good to the UK in terms of the deaths rate, recession, do they?

It seems that brexiters , take pleasure in someone else’s misfortune, if it is any EU country ( or perhaps the whole continent of Europe), forgetting that there is not much to be proud of in how UK is dealing with its problems.

EU / Europe derangement syndrome comes to mind.

 

[Dave1987]

I am sure Europhiles will donate their parents vaccine dose to the EU. The EU policy was to rely on French Sanofi to provide the bulk of vaccines and other countries pay top dollar for the German pfizer vaccine.

Now they want the UK/Swedish vaccine that charges cost price. They are hypocrites of the first order. Of course any critic of the EU brings out the worst in the Europhiles.

The EU does not believe in free trade but hides behind it's tariff wall.

So 10 months ago the world was crying out for the biotech giants to start vaccine development against Sars-Cov-2. GSK (a British company) had got bitten hard by the SARS and Ebola outbreaks. I read they had spent money developing vaccines for them only for the outbreaks to peter out and their investment to be pretty worthless. GSK teamed up with Sanofi to use Sonafi's technology to start producing a vaccine but they started later than most when it was realised that Covid was to a big issue and the world would need lots of vaccines. So when you are having a dig at the French company Sanofi you are also having a dig at British listed company GSK. The only reason the AZ Oxford vaccine is effective is because they accidentally gave half doses to some of the trials volunteers but found it worked more effectively. But lets not let facts get in the way of a good Brexiteer rant eh?

I believe that the UK is pledging to protect British farmers from cheap imports post Brexit so the UK is hardly the shining beam of light of free trade. Once again lets not let facts get in the way of good old anti-EU rhetoric.

Ow by the way for you benefit @REVUpminster I will tell you why the BioNtech vaccine costs top dollar. It is made using state of the art technology. BioNtech had a viable vaccine ready to go weeks after the genome of Sar-Cov-2 was published by the Chinese. But because it was such radical technology it had to be tested very thoroughly. The AZ Oxford vaccine is made using old well-known tech which is why it is so cheap.

That is hyperbolic, over emotional and wholly uncalled for, and frankly, bordering on defamatory.

Yes, like many I dislike the EU, I don't have an emotional irrational fixation with something that is an inanimate object.

I don't have hatred for people I don't like either. Apart from anything else it is futile and makes you prone to unreason and dwelling on something when it is better to move on and forget about it (something I will soon be doing with this thread).

The word "Hatred" is banded around as a convenient emotional smear all too often when people are defeated in an argument or debate, which devalues its use in the much rarer appropriate situations.

It saddens me to see this happen here.

So *why* did you call the EU the "EUSSR" and compare them to the brutal dictatorship of the Soviet Union then? How much more defamatory can you get? It seems it is perfectly reasonable for you to band around hyperbolic language but not anyone else.

 

[najaB]

The EU policy was to rely on French Sanofi to provide the bulk of vaccines and other countries pay top dollar for the German pfizer vaccine.

Then why did the EU pay to expand the UK-based production facilities for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine (AstraZeneca being a part British/part Swedish company)? Why did they order hundred millions of doses of it?

 

[Domh245]

The only reason the AZ Oxford vaccine is effective is because they accidentally gave half doses to some of the trials volunteers but found it worked more effectively. But lets not let facts get in the way of a good Brexiteer rant eh?

I'm afraid that's utter rubbish. The half-dose/standard-dose hasn't been carried forward, and it's only been authorised on a SD/SD regime. It did however give them confidence in the longer time between doses (they theorise that this was the main reason for the improved efficacy, not the variation in dose)

The Ox/AZ vaccine is effective because of the people and institutes behind it. The BioNTech vaccine seems more effective because the numbers associated with their efficacy trials were 'cooked' by only reporting symptomatic covid infections. Odds are that they'll all be similarly effective, but critically they'll all massively cut down the number of hospitalisations and deaths, which is the key to 'beating' the virus.

Ow by the way for you benefit @REVUpminster I will tell you why the BioNtech vaccine costs top dollar. It is made using state of the art technology. BioNtech had a viable vaccine ready to go weeks after the genome of Sar-Cov-2 was published by the Chinese. But because it was such radical technology it had to be tested very thoroughly. The AZ Oxford vaccine is made using old well-known tech which is why it is so cheap.

It's "old well-known" tech in that it's using viral vector, but it is AFAIK the first application of Adenovirus as the vector (which required just as thorough testing and why both trials finished at roughly the same time). The fact that Pfizer are involved (and financed a large portion of the development) is also in no small part why that vaccine costs top dollar - there's profits to be made..

 

[najaB]

It seems it is perfectly reasonable for you to band around hyperbolic language [about the EU] but not anyone else [about Brexit-supporters].

A bit like "One rule for us Brits and another rule for Johnny Foreigner". Not, of course, that that's what it is.

The fact that Pfizer are involved (and financed a large portion of the development) is also in no small part why that vaccine costs top dollar - there's profits to be made..

There's a profit motive, no doubt, but most of the cost is due to it just being a very expensive vaccine to make and transport. -70°C isn't cheap to achieve or maintain. They almost certainly could have made it cheaper but for "Cheap, fast, effective - choose two."

 

[21C101]

So *why* did you call the EU the "EUSSR" and compare them to the brutal dictatorship of the Soviet Union then? How much more defamatory can you get? It seems it is perfectly reasonable for you to band around hyperbolic language but not anyone else.

What I actually said was "While it [the EU] dosent, have illegal detention in camps and other fascist tendencies, it lacks democratic accountabilty and seems to be obsessed with regulating everything, in some ways resembling a polite version of the Soviet Union."

No reasonable person would interpret that as calling the EU a "brutal dictatorship" or the "EUSSR"

 

[Dave1987]

I'm afraid that's utter rubbish. The half-dose/standard-dose hasn't been carried forward, and it's only been authorised on a SD/SD regime. It did however give them confidence in the longer time between doses (they theorise that this was the main reason for the improved efficacy, not the variation in dose)

The Ox/AZ vaccine is effective because of the people and institutes behind it. The BioNTech vaccine seems more effective because the numbers associated with their efficacy trials were 'cooked' by only reporting symptomatic covid infections. Odds are that they'll all be similarly effective, but critically they'll all massively cut down the number of hospitalisations and deaths, which is the key to 'beating' the virus.

It's "old well-known" tech in that it's using viral vector, but it is AFAIK the first application of Adenovirus as the vector (which required just as thorough testing and why both trials finished at roughly the same time). The fact that Pfizer are involved (and financed a large portion of the development) is also in no small part why that vaccine costs top dollar - there's profits to be made..

Well that is certainly not what I had read. I read that the AZ Oxford vaccine had at most 70% efficacy when two full doses were given but over 90% efficacy when given in specific doses.

From what I have read the mRNA tech is absolutely cutting edge stuff and has enormous potential going forward even after Covid is under control.

 

[najaB]

What I actually said was "While it [the EU] dosent, have illegal detention in camps and other fascist tendencies, it lacks democratic accountabilty and seems to be obsessed with regulating everything, in some ways resembling a polite version of the Soviet Union."

Actually, what you said was:

That is the sort of thing that went on at the Iron curtain inner German border, then people wonder why the EU gets dubbed as the EUSSR.

 

[Dave1987]

What I actually said was "While it [the EU] dosent, have illegal detention in camps and other fascist tendencies, it lacks democratic accountabilty and seems to be obsessed with regulating everything, in some ways resembling a polite version of the Soviet Union."

No reasonable person would interpret that as calling the EU a "brutal dictatorship" or the "EUSSR"

Utter and complete nonsense. The EU in no way represents any kind of dictatorship that the Soviet Union did. Each member state elects MEP's to the European parliament. The president of the European Commission faces votes to get into the post. The whole process is entirely democratic. It in no way resembles any part of what the Soviet Union was. It is quite ridiculous to even suggest a comparison between the two.

If you want to see what a real dictatorship looks like go and take a holiday in North Korea.

 

[Domh245]

Well that is certainly not what I had read. I read that the AZ Oxford vaccine had at most 70% efficacy when two full doses were given but over 90% efficacy when given in specific doses.

From what I have read the mRNA tech is absolutely cutting edge stuff and has enormous potential going forward even after Covid is under control.

It was 70% efficacy when all the different regimes were pooled, but it does seem that they just tried as many as possible to see what stuck. LD-SD at 12 weeks was 90%, SD-SD at 3 weeks was 62% which were used to calculate the 70% headline, but other regimes were trialled and were part of the reason why the 12 week interval between doses has been used in it's authorisation. Quoting from the MRHA assessment:

There is not persuasive evidence of a real difference in VE (vaccine efficacy) between SD (standard dose) and LD (low dose), and the apparent difference is considered more likely to be the result of confounding factors, especially the dosing interval. Conclusions on vaccine efficacy were primarily based on the pre-planned primary analysis including both SD and LD participants, and not on subgroups.

The key bit though again is the impact on Severe covid cases & hospitalisations which were (AFAIK) comparable to all the other vaccines thus far - ie good as completely eliminating them. Obsessing over the headline efficacy figure is a bit pointless so long as it stops people from becoming seriously ill and clogging up the NHS

Like you say mRNA tech is very much cutting edge stuff and does have enormous potential, and covid has been very beneficial in bringing it to the public attention and hopefully accelerating it's further use

 

[21C101]

Utter and complete nonsense. The EU in no way represents any kind of dictatorship that the Soviet Union did. Each member state elects MEP's to the European parliament. The president of the European Commission faces votes to get into the post. The whole process is entirely democratic. It in no way resembles any part of what the Soviet Union was. It is quite ridiculous to even suggest a comparison between the two.

If you want to see what a real dictatorship looks like go and take a holiday in North Korea.

There was a lot more to the Soviet Union than the NKVD/KGB and Gulag, which was more to do with Russian pre communism imperial political culture than communism.

The main featue of the USSR was its largely unaccoubtable, top down, pyramid bureaucracy and its regulation of things that were not regulated before. It was this bureaucracy and regulation that eventually did for it and to my eyes the EU is heading down exactly the same path.

Actually, what you said was: 21C101 Said, "That is the sort of thing that went on at the Iron curtain inner German border, then people wonder why the EU gets dubbed as the EUSSR."

That is not calling the EU the EUSSR, it is stating that, given their behaviour (in rejecting goods over trifling matters like omitting a full stop on a 40 page form), is it any wonder that the EU gets compared with the Soviet Union.

That is fair comment and you totally miss the point that what the EU is being compared with, isn't the gulags, KGB and general human rights abuses, it is the producer led, largely unaccountable bureacracy that regulated ever more of personal and work activity (it was this that eventually did for the Soviet Union).

 

[REVUpminster]

It's good here. Daily Telegraph Readers v Guardian readers. Perhaps we should read Die Zeit or Bild or Dutch newspapers.

One of the reasons for the high death rate was we repatriated 3 million brits abroad, the scientists did not realise care home staff moved between care homes. Hospital infections have gone down since staff have been inoculated. During the summer thousands of holiday makers descended on Devon and Cornwall with no rise in the infections, but as soon as they were allowed abroad, 500,000 went, the infections began to rise. It's only called the UK variant because it was first discovered here. The variant is widespread in Portugal at the moment. Do we take it there or did we get it there?

The German state of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania has set up a Climate Environmental Protection foundation to get round US sanctions against the Gazprom to finish the pipeline from the Russian port of Vyborg. Putin will then have leverage against the EU.

The WHO investigators are in Wuhan and I can see all the folks will blame Britain and the conclusion will be something escaped from Porton Down and arrived in China on one of the three flight a week from Heathrow to Wuhan.

 

[Cowley]

Happy to let discussions about restrictions on vaccines being imported into the country stay in this thread as it’s relevant to the Brexit discussion, but could any discussion on the effectiveness of the various vaccines stay in the thread regarding vaccines in the Covid section so that this one doesn’t get too off topic please.

Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

With multiple vaccines now releasing results, I thought it could be useful to have a place to discuss their approval, deployment, and effects on society. Here's a section from the BBC's article to set the tone I was thinking of: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55040635 In the UK there are...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks folks.

 

[37424]

I think its fair to say that the EU with the row over vaccines are doing a very good job at making sure that is no chance of this country ever re-joining the EU especially if they were to carry out the threat to stop Pfizer vaccine which presumably will be needed for people who have had that vaccine can get the second dose.

 

[najaB]

I think its fair to say that the EU with the row over vaccines are doing a very good job at making sure that is no chance of this country ever re-joining the EU especially if they were to carry out the threat to stop Pfizer vaccine which presumably will be needed for people who have had that vaccine can get the second dose.

Have they actually made that threat, or have the likes of the Express and Mail reported that they've made that threat?

 

[JamesT]

Have they actually made that threat, or have the likes of the Express and Mail reported that they've made that threat?

In The Guardian, who are presumably less likely to take an anti-EU slant - Britain and EU clash over claims to UK-produced Covid vaccine | Society | The Guardian

“People in the United Kingdom are vaccinated with a very good vaccine produced in Europe, supported by European money,” said Peter Liese, a German MEP in Angela Merkel’s CDU party, referring to the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.

“If there is anyone thinking that European citizens would accept that we give this high quality vaccine to the United Kingdom and would accept to be treated as second class by a UK-based company, I think the only consequence can be to immediately stop the export of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine. And then we are in the middle of a trade war. So the company and the UK better think twice.”

 

[najaB]

In The Guardian, who are presumably less likely to take an anti-EU slant - Britain and EU clash over claims to UK-produced Covid vaccine | Society | The Guardian

Ah. So the EU hasn't made that threat, one MEP has made that threat.

Given that some MEPs would say any crazy thing that came into their mind (Nigel Farage comes to mind for some reason) I don't think we have to panic. At least not yet.

 

[JamesT]

Ah. So the EU hasn't made that threat, one MEP has made that threat.

Given that some MEPs would say any crazy thing that came into their mind (Nigel Farage comes to mind for some reason) I don't think we have to panic. At least not yet.

Slightly more than just an MEP - EU threatens to block Covid vaccine exports amid AstraZeneca shortfall | World news | The Guardian

Germany’s health minister, Jens Spahn, gave Berlin’s backing to the commission proposal. “We, as the EU, must be able to know whether and what vaccines are being exported from the EU,” he said. “Only that way can we understand whether our EU contracts with the producers are being served fairly. An obligation to get approval for vaccine exports on the EU level makes sense.”

It's not much of a leap to take those statements on needing approval to export from the EU and that the EU is morally entitled to a fair share as a threat that approval would be withheld unless the EU got a greater supply.

 

[najaB]

Slightly more than just an MEP...

It's not much of a leap to take those statements on needing approval to export from the EU and that the EU is morally entitled to a fair share as a threat that approval would be withheld unless the EU got a greater supply.

That all sounds like normal international negotiating tactics. They've got someone to set out the results of failing to reach an agreement so that everyone is clear what's at risk. I wouldn't class it as a threat until it comes from the Commission itself.

There's no way that they really want to cut off our supply to the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine.

 

[Tester]

Slightly more than just an MEP - EU threatens to block Covid vaccine exports amid AstraZeneca shortfall | World news | The Guardian

It's not much of a leap to take those statements on needing approval to export from the EU and that the EU is morally entitled to a fair share as a threat that approval would be withheld unless the EU got a greater supply.

Thank goodness no UK politician would say anything about the EU from which it would be not much of a leap.....

Oh wait - perhaps we shouldn't panic yet.