Brighton - London; much cheaper to St Pancras than Charing Cross?

[jumble]

You can use railcards on it, but not the over 60s London Freedom Pass.

Gatwick Express doesn't have special fares south of Gatwick (when it runs south of Gatwick!). Yes, it is the part of the country with possibly the most complicated and confusing walk-up fares. It's very silly, but there's no risk of it being made simpler anytime soon, sadly.



It is still the default, and they're still valid to the same southern terminals.

Sorry I meant a London 60+ Oyster card not a railcard
It is not called a freedom pass by TFL

 

[AlbertBeale]

Sorry I meant a London 60+ Oyster card not a railcard
It is is not called a freedom pass by TFL

If it isn't called a Freedom Pass by TfL, is that because they're different things? Freedom Pass for over retirement age, with most stuff free; over-60 Oyster for over-60s, but not as many concessions?

 

[Howardh]

You can use railcards on it, but not the over 60s London Freedom Pass.
Gatwick Express doesn't have special fares south of Gatwick (when it runs south of Gatwick!). Yes, it is the part of the country with possibly the most complicated and confusing walk-up fares. It's very silly, but there's no risk of it being made simpler anytime soon, sadly.

It is still the default, and they're still valid to the same southern terminals.

Ah, thanks, different card.

 

[Hadders]

This is not the case at present
The Gatwick Express is suspended

Gatwick Express is suspended at the moment and it is good that the barriers to platform 13 and 14 at Victoria are not being used.

I've even seen Gatwick Express branded trains running Cambridge Express services out of Kings Cross recently.

"London SR" rebranded as "London Terminals" is still the default for South of the river walk-up tickets, isn't it?
There isn't an obvious "North" equivalent - really only Cambridge and beyond have access to more than 2 terminals until you get quite far north. (Birmingham has 3 by counting Paddington).

Stevenage has access to Kings Cross, Moorgate, St Pancras and Liverpool Street
Bedford is valid into St Pancras and Euston
Hertford Stations is valid into St Pancras, Kings Cross, Moorgate and Liverpool Street

 

[RJ]

The whole situation seems to be an unholy mess. Pity any foreign tourist trying to decipher our rail ticketing, especially if their english is weak, why it can't say "any London Terminal" on the cheapest day return, and it doesn't matter which TOC you go with? I don't want to start the nationalisation debate again...but can't ticketing be nationalised??
Today's rant over!

I don't really buy this I'm afraid!

Most people know which stations they are travelling between. That makes a journey simple.

If you want further value from a ticket then fine, but that is a voluntary complication that people choose to take on.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Gatwick Express is suspended at the moment and it is good that the barriers to platform 13 and 14 at Victoria are not being used.

I've even seen Gatwick Express branded trains running Cambridge Express services out of Kings Cross recently.



Stevenage has access to Kings Cross, Moorgate, St Pancras and Liverpool Street
Bedford is valid into St Pancras and Euston
Hertford Stations is valid into St Pancras, Kings Cross, Moorgate and Liverpool Street

What route is there from Stevenage to Liverpool St?

I don't really buy this I'm afraid!

Most people know which stations they are travelling between. That makes a journey simple.

If you want further value from a ticket then fine, but that is a voluntary complication that people choose to take on.

I find, on the contrary, that needing to pin down a journey to a specific station is more complicated. If, say, I'm going from London to Brighton and back, of course I know which London terminus I'm leaving from; but on the return (if I don't live next to any of the terminus stations) I just want the first Brighton-London connection, irrespective of which way it's going. The idea that you'll know which station you want, if travelling to London from the south, is frequently not the case. A "simple" journey, for me, is one with a Brighton [or wherever] to London ticket, with no specific station mentioned.

 

[MikeWh]

What route is there from Stevenage to Liverpool St?



I find, on the contrary, that needing to pin down a journey to a specific station is more complicated. If, say, I'm going from London to Brighton and back, of course I know which London terminus I'm leaving from; but on the return (if I don't live next to any of the terminus stations) I just want the first Brighton-London connection, irrespective of which way it's going. The idea that you'll know which station you want, if travelling to London from the south, is frequently not the case. A "simple" journey, for me, is one with a Brighton [or wherever] to London ticket, with no specific station mentioned.

Via Hertford North and walk to Hertford East.

 

[RJ]

I find, on the contrary, that needing to pin down a journey to a specific station is more complicated. If, say, I'm going from London to Brighton and back, of course I know which London terminus I'm leaving from; but on the return (if I don't live next to any of the terminus stations) I just want the first Brighton-London connection, irrespective of which way it's going. The idea that you'll know which station you want, if travelling to London from the south, is frequently not the case. A "simple" journey, for me, is one with a Brighton [or wherever] to London ticket, with no specific station mentioned.

Your journey isn't simple then because you don't know where you want to go back to.

Tickets exist for those who need that kind of flexibility.

I tend to find that when people complain about how complex the system is, there is usually a simple ticket available to cover their needs. But they voluntarily take on the task of digging into the system in order to reduce the price then say that it's complicated!

 

[AlbertBeale]

Your journey isn't simple then because you don't know where you want to go back to.

Tickets exist for those who need that kind of flexibility.

On the contrary, I know exactly where I want to go back to - my home. And the simplest and most efficient route from Brighton station to my home is whichever train to London happens to be leaving when I'm back at the station [unless it's very slow and due to be overtaken], followed by the trip from whichever London station to my home. It makes little odds which way my trains arrives in London.

By your argument, it'd be "simpler" if, when getting a day return ticket, you had to specify in advance the time of the train you wanted to return on; or, if on the Underground doing a journey with various routes available, you had to specify which route you'd take rather than just getting whichever train came first.

 

[RJ]

ė

On the contrary, I know exactly where I want to go back to - my home. And the simplest and most efficient route from Brighton station to my home is whichever train to London happens to be leaving when I'm back at the station [unless it's very slow and due to be overtaken], followed by the trip from whichever London station to my home. It makes little odds which way my trains arrives in London.

By your argument, it'd be "simpler" if, when getting a day return ticket, you had to specify in advance the time of the train you wanted to return on; or, if on the Underground doing a journey with various routes available, you had to specify which route you'd take rather than just getting whichever train came first.

You mention using the Underground. Is there not a ticket available from your "home" station to Brighton? Whether that be a named National Rail station that allows a cross London transfer or covered by a Zone U12 ticket etc.?

If you're splitting your tickets/using a CPC to save that's great, but not a simple arrangement.

I'm all for creative ticketing to save - been there, done that and got the T-shirt. I just think that people who want the ticketing system simplified, increasing the price for many fellow passengers should think a bit more about how logical their argument is. It might be better to ask someone who knows their way around how to make savings.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Is there not a ticket available from your "home" station to Brighton? Whether that be a named National Rail station that allows a cross London transfer or covered by a Zone U12 ticket etc.?

It sounds like you're splitting your tickets which is great but not simple if a through ticket is available. Try being a ticket seller and communicating this concept to somebody who comes wanting an easy, stress free ticketing arrangement.

I'm all for creative ticketing to save - been there, done that and got the T-shirt. I just think that people who want the ticketing system simplified, increasing the price for many fellow passengers should think a bit more about how logical their argument is. It might be better to ask someone who knows their way around how to make savings.

I don't have a "home" NR station - I live in the middle of London. My "home" station is simply "London". It's absolutely normal, and has been for as long as I can remember, for people travelling between many parts of London and destinations towards and around the south coast to find the "easiest"/"simplest" ticket is one which doesn't specify the London terminal. Isn't it obvious that if I'm in Brighton travelling to the middle of London, the simplest ticket is one that doesn't specify which London terminal? When I arrive in "London", I can finish my journey home by walking, cycling, hopping on a bus, whatever - depending on time, my mood, which terminal I'm at, etc. Simple!

I certainly do want an "easy, stress-free ticketing arrangement", and as far as I'm concerned that means a ticket which is as flexible as possible, especially for journeys to the south of London. Flexibility is not complexity! Having to make a decision at a time when you don't have the information to make it - such as specifying the terminal beforehand - now that's complexity!

 

[Hadders]

I don't have a "home" NR station - I live in the middle of London. My "home" station is simply "London". It's absolutely normal, and has been for as long as I can remember, for people travelling between many parts of London and destinations towards and around the south coast to find the "easiest"/"simplest" ticket is one which doesn't specify the London terminal. Isn't it obvious that if I'm in Brighton travelling to the middle of London, the simplest ticket is one that doesn't specify which London terminal? When I arrive in "London", I can finish my journey home by walking, cycling, hopping on a bus, whatever - depending on time, my mood, which terminal I'm at, etc. Simple!

I certainly do want an "easy, stress-free ticketing arrangement", and as far as I'm concerned that means a ticket which is as flexible as possible, especially for journeys to the south of London. Flexibility is not complexity! Having to make a decision at a time when you don't have the information to make it - such as specifying the terminal beforehand - now that's complexity!

I think most people are creatures of habit and will use their 'normal' station or route.

 

[Howardh]

I think most people are creatures of habit and will use their 'normal' station or route.

Visitors and tourists, like myself, aren't creatures of habit in unusual places!

 

[30907]

I don't have a "home" NR station - I live in the middle of London. My "home" station is simply "London". It's absolutely normal, and has been for as long as I can remember, for people travelling between many parts of London and destinations towards and around the south coast to find the "easiest"/"simplest" ticket is one which doesn't specify the London terminal. Isn't it obvious that if I'm in Brighton travelling to the middle of London, the simplest ticket is one that doesn't specify which London terminal? When I arrive in "London", I can finish my journey home by walking, cycling, hopping on a bus, whatever - depending on time, my mood, which terminal I'm at, etc. Simple!

I certainly do want an "easy, stress-free ticketing arrangement", and as far as I'm concerned that means a ticket which is as flexible as possible, especially for journeys to the south of London. Flexibility is not complexity! Having to make a decision at a time when you don't have the information to make it - such as specifying the terminal beforehand - now that's complexity!

So a "London Terminals Any Permitted" if you want flexibility, a "London Thameslink" if you want Farringdon/St Pancras, and Zone 1/2 for anything else would do the job - plus TL only for the economically minded?

 

[73128]

This is not the case at present
The Gatwick Express is suspended

Home | Gatwick Express

www.gatwickexpress.com

Some forum members and I travelled on the Branded Stock from London to East Croydon last week
You are sent away from the dedicated barriers to a different platform entrance at 11 and I was told by everyone i asked if I could use my over 60 which is not valid on Gatwick express and was given an affirmative answer each time

We also had an interesting speculation as to what would happen with a touched in Oyster with enough PAYG if one was intending to travel Victoria to Gatwick and not leaving the station at Gatwick and going back to East Croydon, and were gripped on the way back. Could one be prosecuted ?
This presumably would not apply to my Over 60 as it cannot have PAYG added

The current half hourly Victoria to East Croydon, Gatwick, HH & Brighton and vv trains are Southern Services which the screens tell you are formed of GX stock.