Britain's infrastructure is too expensive - Railways, Trams, and Roads all cost more to build in Britain

[kieron]

In my opinion, there is a sequence which is well known with major projects, make decisions early and get everyone committed and "inside the tent".
It's all too easy for politicians to say, "well I wouldn't have done it like that" and stop the project or dismember it, as we have seen recently.
In my experience politicians need to be given the opportunity to have their input at an early stage in the process and to commit to it and not interfere.

One difficulty with that approach is that, at least with rail, the people who manage projects seem to find it difficult to meet an agreed budget. If they have to go back to the funders to ask for more, you can hardly expect the funders to limit their questions to "How much do you need?", whoever they are.

 

[The Planner]

WMT are already running a reduced service from lower demand and expectation is we are at the "new " steady state now so where is this growth going to materialise from that will need an increase in services to fill the vacated HS2 paths?

Slow lines are already full enough around Bletchley to stop E-W growing from its opening state.

 

[matacaster]

A particular problem with projects that take decades (HS2, Nuclear subs etc) is that the original rationale (whether good or bad) and on-going plans are almost certain to be called in question and modified. Newly available technology, changes in available funding, changed priorities, political interventions, escalating costs, perceived public support for the project etc will throw projects off course.

Government's only last 5 years (or less) unless reelected and even if the same party continues, the transport minister of gets moved on and the new one wants to make his mark!

Perhaps making something deliverable in 5 years even if it means temporary connections to the existing infrastructure might be the way to go?

 

[The Ham]

WMT are already running a reduced service from lower demand and expectation is we are at the "new " steady state now so where is this growth going to materialise from that will need an increase in services to fill the vacated HS2 paths?

Is it actually from lower demand, or is the lower usage because DfT have required then to run less services to reduce costs (even if they don't know if it would result in a net decrease in funding)?

A particular problem with projects that take decades (HS2, Nuclear subs etc) is that the original rationale (whether good or bad) and on-going plans are almost certain to be called in question and modified. Newly available technology, changes in available funding, changed priorities, political interventions, escalating costs, perceived public support for the project etc will throw projects off course.

Government's only last 5 years (or less) unless reelected and even if the same party continues, the transport minister of gets moved on and the new one wants to make his mark!

Perhaps making something deliverable in 5 years even if it means temporary connections to the existing infrastructure might be the way to go?

There's two issues, the first is what about those elements which take longer than 5 years? (Not least the planning stages which can take a fairly long time).

The second is that by breaking it down into small bits it's going to cost more to deliver the overall project.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Is it actually from lower demand, or is the lower usage because DfT have required then to run less services to reduce costs (even if they don't know if it would result in a net decrease in funding)?

From most recent ORR data WMT are at 70% of 2019 passenger levels but still running 86% of passenger train miles comparable figures for AWC are 69/74% but this was Q1 and its all WMT operations without a split its difficult to tell what the impact is on WCML.

Pre covid i rode the peak hour 319's on numerous occasions and those at the shoulder weren't that heavily loaded so they were obvious targets to thin.

 

[The Ham]

From most recent ORR data WMT are at 70% of 2019 passenger levels but still running 86% of passenger train miles comparable figures for AWC are 69/74% but this was Q1 and its all WMT operations without a split its difficult to tell what the impact is on WCML.

Pre covid i rode the peak hour 319's on numerous occasions and those at the shoulder weren't that heavily loaded so they were obvious targets to thin.

Whilst passenger numbers are at 70% passenger km's are at 78%, which implies that a significant amount of the reduction is on short distance travel (i.e. less likely to be the WCML).

Whilst thinning of services in shoulder peaks could be useful in cutting costs, it would also be noted that often those services which are the first off peak services to places are those which aren't using season tickets are using and so may actually be more valuable than the sightly busy peak services.

It also depends on if it results in a large gap in the timetable or for connecting services, which could result in it not being viable to travel by train (or risks a very late arrivals), pushing people away from the railways.

 

[Class 170101]

Plenty of FOCs will be very grateful for any extra paths on the WCML for a start.

As I've pointed on the WCML South Thread it won't help the freight unless there is space on and off the WCML as very little freight runs solely on WCML South.