British India Line problem

[stuartl]

According to the Yorkshire Post, British India Line on the Dalesman the other day was in danger of exploding due to overheating and they rang the fire service to get water. Wasn't needed in the end as they found a hydrant.
Could it really have exploded or would something have just melted?

 

[GM078]

Fusible plug would likely have gone before getting to that stage, scary stuff in itself.

 

[Spartacus]

That would be rather embarrassing given it was actually the move from Carnforth - Hellifield that failed. From what I can gather it failed on shed that morning, but was later passed fit to run and was going to work it's train from Hellifield, so must have been some mechanical fault rather than literally running out of water.

 

[Iskra]

By way of update it has been out on the Dalesman today and has run absolutely fine

 

[thejuggler]

Report suggests a pipework problem.

Steam locomotive narrowly avoids exploding after breakdown during Yorkshire Dales rail tour

Firefighters were asked to deliver 1,000 gallons of water to a steam train stranded in the Dales yesterday.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

 

[Spartacus]

Report suggests a pipework problem.

Steam locomotive narrowly avoids exploding after breakdown during Yorkshire Dales rail tour

Firefighters were asked to deliver 1,000 gallons of water to a steam train stranded in the Dales yesterday.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Not saying it wasn't a pipe problem but the report says it was hauling the tour when it failed, which it wasn't....

 

[sluf]

I confirm that as I was on the Tuesday dalesman stuck in hellifield goods sidings for 90 minutes while one of the 37s was despatched to retrieve the steam engine before reattaching to the train and continuing to Carlisle.

 

[Alanko]

"Narrowly avoids exploding" is just the usual local rag histrionics and hyperbole.

 

[DelW]

Might the "pipework problem" have been a leak resulting in low water levels in the tender? That could have needed an unplanned top-up, and caused the enquiry to the fire service before the hydrant was located.

 

[TheEdge]

"Narrowly avoids exploding" is just the usual local rag histrionics and hyperbole.

In fairness that appears to have come from a quote from the fire brigade. And although unlikely on the more modern (!) steam loco designs, boiling a loco dry does lead to a chance of a boiler explosion.

 

[Kingston Flyer]

From the national preservation site, it was the water feed pipe between the tender and loco that split, meaning that no water would be able to reach the boiler.

Photo credited to Chris Ellison:

From what I can read, the fire was dropped in Hellifield, but water would still need to have been added to the boiler whilst it cooled

 

[notverydeep]

From the national preservation site, it was the water feed pipe between the tender and loco that split, meaning that no water would be able to reach the boiler.

Photo credited to Chris Ellison:

From what I can read, the fire was dropped in Hellifield, but water would still need to have been added to the boiler whilst it cooled

Couldn't they have tried a repair with a piece of rag and some bootlaces in the manner of James the Red Engine?

 

[blackfive460]

By way of update it has been out on the Dalesman today and has run absolutely fine

With plenty of assistance from the Class 37 on the rear of the train presumably to do with fire risk though I did wonder what the stop at Ribblehead was about...

From what I can read, the fire was dropped in Hellifield, but water would still need to have been added to the boiler whilst it cooled

The fire was dropped at Bentham.

 

[Iskra]

With plenty of assistance from the Class 37 on the rear of the train presumably to do with fire risk though I did wonder what the stop at Ribblehead was about...

The fire was dropped at Bentham.

I suspected that might happen, but I kept looking back and could not see any clag from the rear 37, but we did drop a fair bit of time, so I think the approach was just to 'take it easy' up the gradient instead. I may be completely wrong though as I was towards the front of the train. We seemed to speed up after Blea Moor tunnel, where the vegetation was greener on that side of the hills!

 

[blackfive460]

I suspected that might happen, but I kept looking back and could not see any clag from the rear 37, but we did drop a fair bit of time, so I think the approach was just to 'take it easy' up the gradient instead. I may be completely wrong though as I was towards the front of the train. We seemed to speed up after Blea Moor tunnel, where the vegetation was greener on that side of the hills!

The 37 was certainly audible from where I was at Ribblehead particularly once off the viaduct.
Was there any explanation for the stop at Ribblehead station?

 

[Iskra]

The 37 was certainly audible from where I was at Ribblehead particularly once off the viaduct.
Was there any explanation for the stop at Ribblehead station?

Was that not just it providing the electrics?

No, there weren't many tannoy announcements at all really (not necessarily a bad thing).

 

[blackfive460]

Was that not just it providing the electrics?

No, there weren't many tannoy announcements at all really (not necessarily a bad thing).

Well, it was very quiet going over the viaduct but became much louder once on the 1 in 100 at the other side so I'd guess it wasn't just there for ETH!

We've had very little rain over the past few weeks so I'd guess fire risk is becoming a concern up here.

 

[Iskra]

Well, it was very quiet going over the viaduct but became much louder once on the 1 in 100 at the other side so I'd guess it wasn't just there for ETH!

We've had very little rain over the past few weeks so I'd guess fire risk is becoming a concern up here.

But why did we crawl and lose 20mins of time if a diesel was assisting? That doesn't make sense to me, and the 37's used yesterday were pretty throaty so it would have been fairly obvious! Also, BIL travelled from Carnforth to Hellifield without a diesel, so if it could run that line on its own it could surely power on the S&C too, especially with it being damp on the West side too.

 

[blackfive460]

But why did we crawl and lose 20mins of time if a diesel was assisting? That doesn't make sense to me, and the 37's used yesterday were pretty throaty so it would have been fairly obvious! Also, BIL travelled from Carnforth to Hellifield without a diesel, so if it could run that line on its own it could surely power on the S&C too, especially with it being damp on the West side too.

If fire risk was the reason for the diesel and the slow running then a 45mph tender first loco and support coach run from Carnforth to Hellifield is a bit of a different proposition to tackling the S&C with 11 on the drawbar.

I can only comment on what I saw and heard at Ribblehead so for the rest I'm only speculating and unless someone who really knows comes along, we will never know!

 

[Iskra]

If fire risk was the reason for the diesel and the slow running then a 45mph tender first loco and support coach run from Carnforth to Hellifield is a bit of a different proposition to tackling the S&C with 11 on the drawbar.

I can only comment on what I saw and heard at Ribblehead so for the rest I'm only speculating and unless someone who really knows comes along, we will never know!

The loco was stood on the Clitheroe line when we arrived, chimney first, support carriage behind, so I'm assuming it came that way. But, yes I do get your point that it isn't the same as hauling a full rake.

Agreed, it's a tough one!

 

[blackfive460]

The loco was stood on the Clitheroe line when we arrived, chimney first, support carriage behind, so I'm assuming it came that way. But, yes I do get your point that it isn't the same as hauling a full rake.

Agreed, it's a tough one!

The loco and support coach for these trains run via Bentham so tender first with a run round at Hellifield before the train arrives from York. As far as I'm aware, tender first running is restricted to a max of 45mph which on that route, isn't a problem.

 

[Iskra]

The loco and support coach for these trains run via Bentham so tender first with a run round at Hellifield before the train arrives from York. As far as I'm aware, tender first running is restricted to a max of 45mph which on that route, isn't a problem.

Wow, WCRC certainly keep the signal person at Hellifield busy then on a Dalesman day! And yes 45mph is correct, I had Tornado on the Northern S&C services tender first.

 

[blackfive460]

They also keep the cafe on the station busy. Well worth a visit.

 

[Iskra]

They also keep the cafe on the station busy. Well worth a visit.

It appears in this video to be a mixture of steam and diesel powering. In the first bit of footage the 37 is virtually silent, but in the second the diesel is clearly audible.

 

[Cowley]

Well, it was very quiet going over the viaduct but became much louder once on the 1 in 100 at the other side so I'd guess it wasn't just there for ETH!

It’s not an ETH/ETS fitted 37 anyway, so it wouldn’t have been providing anything electrical to the train.

 

[John Luxton]

Couldn't they have tried a repair with a piece of rag and some bootlaces in the manner of James the Red Engine?

Of even done a Titfield Thunderbolt and sent people off with all sorts of containers ...... ?

 

[blackfive460]

It’s not an ETH/ETS fitted 37 anyway, so it wouldn’t have been providing anything electrical to the train.

I did wonder if it was but my depth of knowledge of West Coast diesels lacks sufficient depth!

 

[341o2]

"Narrowly avoids exploding" is just the usual local rag histrionics and hyperbole.

So true, my local rag, which I read for the awful typos etc would have said "Narrowly avoids EXPLODING"

 

[Teaboy1]

Got to sell those newspapers, not letting the truth get in the way of a good story....!!

Dare say a roll of Gaffer tape and some TyWraps would have come in handy!!!

Although its not advisable to let that fusible plug fail, when they do let go, tends to blow the fire out of the fire door [even if shut] and ash pan with quite a bit of force. Not nice to be on a footplate when they fail, steam ash water[hot] clinker etc everywhere!!

These are the bits;

Fusible & Washout Plugs

www.heritagesteamsupplies.co.uk

Thankfully local fire boys saved the day and the tour. Lucky save by crew who know the rope in such a situation.