British Rail appointed travel agents

[Ken H]

In BR days there were appointed travel agents. I think you could buy tickets there, and make reservations.
I never used them
What tickets did they issue?
And did anyone here ever use them?
and are there still rail travel agents?
Would they be appropriate today, especially in places where there is no staffed ticket office?

 

[randyrippley]

As far as I can remember back in the early-mid 1970s the only choice was Pickfords, who were another arm of the BTC

Tickets were handwritten and torn out of a duplicate book on oily-textured yellow paper with BR red banding and chevrons
I used them a few times to get to University or London and it always seemed a faff with the shop staff playing "find the ticket book", so I guess its use wasn't common. Only reason I used them was because both Yeovil stations were out of the town centre, the shop was easier to get to.
In the late 1970s the university travel shop (NUS travel???) had them, but I can't remember if that was before or after the Pickfords shops were sold/closed as a chain

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Tickets were handwritten and torn out of a duplicate book on oily-textured yellow paper with BR red banding and chevrons

That's my recollection also. Obtained them for use in conjunction with a (zonal) rail/hotel multi-night package.

 

[seagull]

There used to be one at the Tywyn Wharf (Talyllyn Railway) station which could sell any national rail ticket and make reservations for travel - the tickets for travel coming from one duplicate paper book and the reservations made on, IIRC, white tickets of a similar size and shape to the ubiquitous orange bordered ones, but filled out by hand. All placed together and stapled into an Intercity paper wallet.
Long time ago so the old memory might be a bit hazy on details.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Where I worked the travel office would do private rail bookings as well as business ones. They were a largish paper ticket but towards the end of business travel being done by a person in an office and the use of a b2b travel service the tickets were similar to the thin card types used by Eurostar.

 

[richw]

Even more recently this was still in place.
I remember when I first started travelling alone so likely 2004-2006 timeframe, I used to go into Newells Travel in Falmouth to buy rail tickets in advance of travel if I wanted a reservation on long distance trips. Nearest manned station was Truro, 10 miles or so away! They had their own ticket printer and The tickets issued were similar in size to airplane boarding passes

 

[Devonian]

My university's student union travel office sold tickets from a window complete with a 'British Rail - we're getting there' leaflet rack in the late '90s. Tickets were dot-matrix printed on Rail Settlement Plan tractor feed paper and were airline ticket size.

Appointed agents must still be a thing... there's a whole website for them: https://www.atoctravelagents.org/

 

[W-on-Sea]

I used one in St Andrews several times in the mid-nineties. I seem to recall that the tickets were indistinguishable from the credit-card sized ones you could get at a station, so they must have had identical printing equipment to station ticket offices.

 

[mmh]

They existed a lot later than the 70s, I used one in the mid-90s.

 

[Roger1973]

I remember them existing, but don't remember ever using one.

I think at one time, only travel centres (not ordinary station ticket offices) could do the more complicated stuff, like reservations, and of course the option to do anything online wasn't there...

 

[MadMarsupial]

Remember using the travel agents in New Mills in the early 90s to buy long distance tickets. She was very helpful and, in the days before the internet, had a knowledge of tickets that I certainly didn't have at the time.

 

[randyrippley]

There used to be one at the Tywyn Wharf (Talyllyn Railway) station which could sell any national rail ticket and make reservations for travel - the tickets for travel coming from one duplicate paper book and the reservations made on, IIRC, white tickets of a similar size and shape to the ubiquitous orange bordered ones, but filled out by hand. All placed together and stapled into an Intercity paper wallet.
Long time ago so the old memory might be a bit hazy on details.

now you've said it, that sounds about right

 

[edwin_m]

There are still travel agents that will obtain tickets for businesses, including implementing various company policies that might not be done if they let employees buy their own, as well as sorting out the payment without staff having to claim via expenses. Two I'm aware of are Carlson Wagonlit (a descendent of the original Wagons Lits company) and FCM Travel. We have logins on a portal where we can book journeys subject to the above restrictions (and also hotels and air travel). For rail they can do TOD or e-tickets where available, and some offices have printers for credit card sized tickets. They charge a fee per ticket but the company presumably considers this worthwhile.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

This InterCity sign was still in place at a Church Stretton travel agent in 2009. Street View suggests it's gone now though:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

 

[RPI]

St Ives has had a rail appointed travel agent for years adjacent to the station, I remember previously they had their own SPORTIS machine in there, as far as I'm aware the travel agent is still there and selling rail tickets (though I haven't been there for a few years now).

 

[EbbwJunction1]

There are still travel agents that will obtain tickets for businesses, including implementing various company policies that might not be done if they let employees buy their own, as well as sorting out the payment without staff having to claim via expenses. Two I'm aware of are Carlson Wagonlit (a descendent of the original Wagons Lits company) and FCM Travel. We have logins on a portal where we can book journeys subject to the above restrictions (and also hotels and air travel). For rail they can do TOD or e-tickets where available, and some offices have printers for credit card sized tickets. They charge a fee per ticket but the company presumably considers this worthwhile.

The Government Department I work for uses an agency to supply travel tickets, and it's part of my job to liaise with them when someone wants to travel. It's not just restricted to rail or even the UK, though - I can book flights and accommodation, including European rail tickets. I said can, although because of Covid no-one's travelling, so I haven't done any of this for not too far short of two years!

 

[WesternLancer]

The Student Union travel shop at Nottingham University used to do rail tickets and I used them until c1994. They were known as the Student Travel Centre IIRC but I think it was run / franchised to a local independent 'high street' travel agent. University staff could and did also use it as you would see them in the queue - and no doubt departmental secretarial staff used it to book academic staff conference travel etc over the phone. They also did flights and coach travel etc. Continental train tickets also did not phase them (and of course Inter Rail tickets would have been big business for them I'm sure).

They could do reservations (pretty sure for UK services and certainly for European trains as I booked a point to point journey Dover to Prague in 1993)

Pretty sure tickets came in the same format as a continental train ticket - like a long oblong paper ticket in a wallet but I can't 100% remember for sure.

I would think probably 3 or 4 people were employed there.

I would use them for BR tickets if it suited me to do so at times (as opposed to station ticket office / travel centre).

They were geared up for all this - having a BR system map on the wall, and the large format (A4 pages) national Rail Timetable in ring binders - possibly more than one copy - as well as the BR system timetable book* so you could refer to times and look them up yourself, and intercity timetable cards at least for Midland Main Line and probably Cross Country too.

Not sure how they managed the transition to rail privatisation as I was no longer a student and thus not nearby, but I would think they carried on selling rail tickets through that. I suspect it closed after c1995 or late 1990s as transition to online tickets, esp for airlines, meant the facility was becoming fairly redundant. Around that time the building it was in was demolished as part of a re-modelling of that site so suspect the lease was ended and it was not considered worth relocating elsewhere in the student union.

*The university library also held one or two reference copies of the BR system timetable so you could also go there to look up train times.

 

[Timmyd]

On a related note, were BR high street shops a widespread thing in the 1980s? There was one in Victoria Street next to Westminster City Hall my family would always buy tickets in advance from. Seems a strange thing to do given it was 5 minutes walk from Victoria station but always seemed busy enough

 

[RT4038]

There are still travel agents that will obtain tickets for businesses, including implementing various company policies that might not be done if they let employees buy their own, as well as sorting out the payment without staff having to claim via expenses. Two I'm aware of are Carlson Wagonlit (a descendent of the original Wagons Lits company) and FCM Travel. We have logins on a portal where we can book journeys subject to the above restrictions (and also hotels and air travel). For rail they can do TOD or e-tickets where available, and some offices have printers for credit card sized tickets. They charge a fee per ticket but the company presumably considers this worthwhile.

The Trainline, various TOCs and possibly other on line retailers have special portals for Business Accounts. Travel Agents have been replaced by DIY on-line options, both for individuals and businesses.

 

[WesternLancer]

On a related note, were BR high street shops a widespread thing in the 1980s? There was one in Victoria Street next to Westminster City Hall my family would always buy tickets in advance from. Seems a strange thing to do given it was 5 minutes walk from Victoria station but always seemed busy enough

I would say many if not most high street travel agents in towns would do train tickets in the 1980s. Can't recall if the big chain travel agents always did (eg Thomas Cook - tho they certainly stocked the continental rail timetable*) but independent locally owned travel agents were a common thing in those days - or perhaps a small independently owned chain with shops on high streets in several local towns. And every town would have a travel agent.

I suspect the one in Victoria Street might have been after a slice of the continental train ticket sales market, and if you were trained to do that perhaps you may as well sell BR tickets too as the systems were probably not that different.

* Got my 1st Continental Thomas Cook Timetable probably in 1990 or '91 from a Thomas Cook branch. On asking for it the lass at the desk (focussed on selling package holidays as 90% of her job I'm sure) looked blank when I asked for it, but consulted a colleague who thought she had seen 'something that might be one of those' out the back, which was duly located and happily sold to me. It clearly did not warrant shelf space front of house with the holiday brochures (but to be fair they would have been give aways and the timetable was not free).

On a related note, were BR high street shops a widespread thing in the 1980s? There was one in Victoria Street next to Westminster City Hall my family would always buy tickets in advance from. Seems a strange thing to do given it was 5 minutes walk from Victoria station but always seemed busy enough

Just realised - did you mean BR high street shops as in shops on high streets operated by BR?

I think these were unusual - but I recall reading there was one in Brighton. Yes - here it is mentioned on the excellent 1S76 site:

1S76 The Rise and Fall of Cross Country Services to Brighton

Home Page

www.1s76.com

INTRODUCTION:

September 1978 saw a pimply faced youth fresh from 6th form start work for British Rail at Brighton, in the Old Steine travel centre, or the town office as it was known.

The following year in May 1979 saw the re-introduction of through services from the Midlands to the Sussex Coast and brought daily locomotive haulage back to Brighton to break up the solid diet of EMU’s.​

So that must have meant BR operated a travel centre in the town, as well as the one located at Brighton station. I wonder how common this was? I would tend to think it would only happen in places with notable tourist business, or perhaps in cities with a business travel customer base but where the station travel centre was not conveniently located for the business staff (secretaries or clerks I suspect) to go out and buy tickets on behalf of senior colleagues planning to travel.

 

[D6130]

Do the privately-run travel offices at stations such as Gobowen and Ledbury count as 'Rail Appointed Travel Agents'? If so, they are still very much in Business. Also Canterbury Travel and Ffestiniog Travel issue continental rail tickets and reservations. Do they also issue National Rail tickets?

 

[Timmyd]

I would say many if not most high street travel agents in towns would do train tickets in the 1980s. Can't recall if the big chain travel agents always did (eg Thomas Cook - tho they certainly stocked the continental rail timetable*) but independent locally owned travel agents were a common thing in those days - or perhaps a small independently owned chain with shops on high streets in several local towns. And every town would have a travel agent.

I suspect the one in Victoria Street might have been after a slice of the continental train ticket sales market, and if you were trained to do that perhaps you may as well sell BR tickets too as the systems were probably not that different.

* Got my 1st Continental Thomas Cook Timetable probably in 1990 or '91 from a Thomas Cook branch. On asking for it the lass at the desk (focussed on selling package holidays as 90% of her job I'm sure) looked blank when I asked for it, but consulted a colleague who thought she had seen 'something that might be one of those' out the back, which was duly located and happily sold to me. It clearly did not warrant shelf space front of house with the holiday brochures (but to be fair they would have been give aways and the timetable was not free).


Just realised - did you mean BR high street shops as in shops on high streets operated by BR?

I think these were unusual - but I recall reading there was one in Brighton. Yes - here it is mentioned on the excellent 1S76 site:

1S76 The Rise and Fall of Cross Country Services to Brighton

Home Page

www.1s76.com

So that must have meant BR operated a travel centre in the town, as well as the one located at Brighton station. I wonder how common this was? I would tend to think it would only happen in places with notable tourist business, or perhaps in cities with a business travel customer base but where the station travel centre was not conveniently located for the business staff (secretaries or clerks I suspect) to go out and buy tickets on behalf of senior colleagues planning to travel.

yes exactly - a standalone high street shop operated by BR and as far as i could tell doing all the things a ticket office at a major station would do

 

[WesternLancer]

yes exactly - a standalone high street shop operated by BR and as far as i could tell doing all the things a ticket office at a major station would do

I wonder if the addresses of such BR shops were listed in the timetables of the relevant era(s). I've now only heard of that Brighton one and the Victoria Street one you mentioned. I suspect there were indeed others. Hopefully other people can add more info. I wonder how far into the 1980s they survived?

No doubt by doing BR domestic tickets, continental rail tickets and Sealink bookings there would have been steady custom. But I can also imagine it is the sort of thing post 1979 the govt of the day might have encouraged BR to divest itself of - eg sell the shops to private sector travel agents for example.

 

[yorksrob]

Used the one in the travel shop on Lancaster University campus quite often in the 90's. Used to buy whatever tickets I needed to buy in advance.

 

[Taunton]

One aspect of being an "appointed" BR travel agent was they gave away as marketing collateral a two-sided, internally illuminated sign, the BR logo on a red background, to fix over the shop door. I doubt the BR Residuary Body collected them back in, so there are probably still a few around.

As well as standalone shops, BR also used to do pop-up facilities at certain major events, particularly national political party conferences, which both had lobbying material and marketing staff, but, more straightforwardly, did all sorts of bookings and seat reservations etc for the attendees.

 

[Titfield]

The company I used to work for was a privately owned travel agency which was an appointed BR agent. The agency used to receive 7% commission on most products sold. To sell European Rail tickets a separate appointment was required and there were comparatively few european rail agents because it was not viable: relatively few sales and the staff had to be trained specifically in the sale of european rail tickets. Branches of Thomas Cooks were the big rail agents of the time.

TBH few travel agents were keen on this type of work because there was more commission in selling package holidays, flights etc. You also got a lot of timetable enquiries which were both time consuming and didnt result in a sale. As a National Express agent also we tended to get customers asking for both the rail and coach times and fares and they would then choose. It was very common for someone to ask all the questions, we would write down the answers on a piece of paper (National Express actually provided pre printed notepads for this purpose) and then the customer would say they would think about it. A few days later they would come back in, we would ask where the bit of paper was and they would say sorry Ive forgotten it / lost it and we would have to start all over again. Even back then the fare structure wasnt that simple and we had to make sure that the customer knew all the restrictions. If we made an error on a ticket and undercharged then we would be billed by BR for the difference.

 

[WesternLancer]

The company I used to work for was a privately owned travel agency which was an appointed BR agent. The agency used to receive 7% commission on most products sold. To sell European Rail tickets a separate appointment was required and there were comparatively few european rail agents because it was not viable: relatively few sales and the staff had to be trained specifically in the sale of european rail tickets. Branches of Thomas Cooks were the big rail agents of the time.

TBH few travel agents were keen on this type of work because there was more commission in selling package holidays, flights etc. You also got a lot of timetable enquiries which were both time consuming and didnt result in a sale. As a National Express agent also we tended to get customers asking for both the rail and coach times and fares and they would then choose. It was very common for someone to ask all the questions, we would write down the answers on a piece of paper (National Express actually provided pre printed notepads for this purpose) and then the customer would say they would think about it. A few days later they would come back in, we would ask where the bit of paper was and they would say sorry Ive forgotten it / lost it and we would have to start all over again. Even back then the fare structure wasnt that simple and we had to make sure that the customer knew all the restrictions. If we made an error on a ticket and undercharged then we would be billed by BR for the difference.

Can I ask out of interest what sort of era/dates would that have been?

I can well imagine there would be scope for time consuming work involving limited sales exactly as you describe!

 

[Titfield]

Can I ask out of interest what sort of era/dates would that have been?

I can well imagine there would be scope for time consuming work involving limited sales exactly as you describe!

1982 - 1989.

Apart from the timetable we had fares manuals that took some getting used to because if a specific fare wasnt listed from say Bournemouth then it had to be "constructed" or in many cases the fares manual would tell you which station (fare) from bmth was the right one to use and any adjustment to be made.

Until just now I had forgotten the chaos caused by the Senior Citizen offer in each November when they could travel for £5 return.

 

[RPI]

1982 - 1989.

Apart from the timetable we had fares manuals that took some getting used to because if a specific fare wasnt listed from say Bournemouth then it had to be "constructed" or in many cases the fares manual would tell you which station (fare) from bmth was the right one to use and any adjustment to be made.

Until just now I had forgotten the chaos caused by the Senior Citizen offer in each November when they could travel for £5 return.

Going on a slight tangent, I remember the days of sportis and the fare manual, not fun when someone wanted a St Ives to Chester Road Saver Return when you had 3 minutes between stops!

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

There were BR run travel centres in London at Victoria Street, The Strand, King William Street and Lower Regent Street.