Brunel's Atmospheric Railway - could it ever have worked properly?

[bill1953]

'Just spotted this. I wonder if this is true. If it is the gentleman in question would have been the fastest human being on the planet, probably at least until the First World War.'

It is true and there is a more detailed account than mine further up.

Fastest man until the First World War? Sadly no. Impressive as it was his 84mph would have only lasted until 5th November 1903 when 84.73 was reached.On 8th November 1909 Victor Hemery smashed the record with 125.94 mph! Which stayed until 1922. He did have a good run though.

 

[pdeaves]

Fastest man until the First World War? Sadly no. Impressive as it was his 84mph would have only lasted until 5th November 1903 when 84.73 was reached.On 8th November 1909 Victor Hemery smashed the record with 125.94 mph! Which stayed until 1922

Whilst not detracting from your point, the 'atmospheric' 84mph was an average from rest so the peak must have been rather higher than 84.73mph. Whether it was above 125.94mph I wouldn't like to say.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Whilst not detracting from your point, the 'atmospheric' 84mph was an average from rest so the peak must have been rather higher than 84.73mph. Whether it was above 125.94mph I wouldn't like to say.

It did mean that Ireland held the speed record for any means of transport for a good many years, a position it has not approached since, I should think. In fact, it possibly means that the land speed record has been held by Ireland longer than any other nation.

 

[bill1953]

Good tries but not sound enough.. The Land Speed Record has to be achieved by two separate runs in opposite directions within an hour. I don't think this gentleman could have been persuaded to endure a second run. So neither he nor Ireland ever held the record.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

I think the rules you refer to are for the later attempts at the land speed record with motor cars. They didn't exist in the early 1800s when the Dalkey incident happened.

 

[bill1953]

Under ANY speed rules it cannot be considered a properly registered and adjudicated attempt at challenging a record. Moving on.......

 

[O L Leigh]

I wasn’t suggesting he’d held any sort of land speed record, official or otherwise, but simply that he was the fastest human for quite a long time; even if only until 1909. I only tentatively suggested the First World War as this was the point at which aviation technology meant that people could exceed 100mph in the air for the first time. Still, it wasn’t a bad guess.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

I wasn’t suggesting he’d held any sort of land speed record, official or otherwise, but simply that he was the fastest human for quite a long time; even if only until 1909. I only tentatively suggested the First World War as this was the point at which aviation technology meant that people could exceed 100mph in the air for the first time. Still, it wasn’t a bad guess.

Trains were exceeding 85mph in normal service long before 1909; City of Truro reached or got pretty near to 100mph in 1903, I think it was. Aviation didn't really surpass land transport speeds until after World War 1.
CL

 

[O L Leigh]

Whether or not City of Truro nor Victor Hemery exceeded the maximum speed of this poor unfortunate will never be known because, as has been said, in order to achieve an average speed of 84mph he must have exceeded this by a fair amount given that the journey started and finished at rest. As it was an accident it would not have been thought of to have provided speed recording equipment nor to pay any particular attention to how the carriage was accelerated or decelerated, so what the maximum speed was will never be known.

As I stated above, my reason for mentioning the First War was because I was making an uninformed, no internet search, back of a fag packet, honest to goodness, out and out guess based on what I know of speed achievements at the time, not a precise cast iron, copper bottomed, nailed on statement of what I believed to be fact. Whatever the precise details I think we can all agree that this gentleman's accolade of being the fastest human will have stood for a decent amount of time.

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

Looking at the relevant Wikipedia articles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_speed_record and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_airspeed_record), and with the usual caveats about that source, it seems the rail record set in the German Zossen-Marienfelde trials in 1903 (131 mph) - assuming that to be valid, which I accept is always a minefield with the older rail speed records - wasn't officially exceeded by an aircraft until 1920, though it was unofficially beaten in 1914. (That record doesn't seem to have been beaten by a road vehicle until 1922, although of course there are limits to the comparability of rail records with other transport modes, as bill1953 pointed out upthread.)

As far as the Dalkey "record" is concerned, it's not very well attested - even Wikipedia has 65 mph (unreferenced) in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_railway but 84 mph (referenced to Garrett Lyons's book) in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalkey_Atmospheric_Railway. Interestingly, both articles say the journey took 75 seconds. Johnson's Atlas puts the distance from Kingstown/Dún Laoghaire to the Dalkey atmospheric terminus (not the same place as the present Dalkey station) at 1 mile 55 chains, but the distance travelled might have been shorter if that is measured from the Dublin end of Kingstown station. That gives me 81 mph exactly, so the 84 mph figure is closer. How accurately the 75 seconds could have been measured at the time is anyone's guess...

 

[edwin_m]

If it was measured by noting the time on clocks at each end, then the margin of error would have been approximately 90% as each clock was probably only set to the nearest minute. Old accident reports frequently make this point when trying to deduce the average speed of a train from the times it was recorded at signal boxes.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Well, I suppose you could say this is belated affirmation of Brunel's vision nearly 200 years ago...

FIRST PASSENGERS TRAVEL SAFELY ON A HYPERLOOP IN HISTORIC TEST RIDE Milestone highlights DP World's role in development of innovative hyperloop technology DP World Chairman watches event first-hand in Nevada Successful test brings Hyperloop one step closer to realisation in the Middle East Enormous potential for the GCC to lead the world in hyperloop manufacturing, investment and job creation

DUBAI, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES – November 9, 2020 – Virgin Hyperloop made history today as the first people successfully traveled in a Hyperloop pod. The significant investment made by Dubai-based DP World, the leading global provider of smart logistics solutions, in the research and development of hyperloop technology, has played an instrumental role in today's milestone. Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, Chairman of Virgin Hyperloop and Group Chairman and CEO of DP World, watched the passenger testing first-hand in Las Vegas, Nevada. "I had the true pleasure of seeing history being made before my very eyes – to witness the first new mode of mass transportation in over 100 years come to life," said Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, Chairman of Virgin Hyperloop and Group Chairman and CEO of DP World. "I have always had tremendous faith in the team at Virgin Hyperloop to transform this technology into a safe system, and today we have done that. We are one step closer to ushering in a new era of ultra-fast, sustainable movement of people and goods." "DP World and Dubai are at the forefront of technological innovation in the transport and logistics industry. The world has been changing quickly and we wanted to be involved in the potential this mode of mass transportation presents, to connect markets and economies, keep trade flowing and help build the global economy's next phase to accelerate growth," he added. This historic testing milestone, combined with the advancements at the Hyperloop Certification Center, will pave the way for the certification of hyperloop systems around the world – a key step towards commercial projects, including those in Saudi Arabia and UAE. Josh Giegel, Co-Founder and Chief Technology Officer, and Sara Luchian, Director of Passenger Experience, of Virgin Hyperloop, were the first people in the world to ride on this new form of transportation. The test took place at Virgin Hyperloop's 500-meter DevLoop test site in Las Vegas, Nevada, where the company has previously run over 400 un-occupied tests. "When we started in a garage over six years ago, the goal was simple – to transform the way people move," said Josh Giegel. "Today, we took one giant leap toward that ultimate dream, not only for me, but for all of us who are looking towards a moonshot right here on Earth." The occupants made their maiden voyage on the newly-unveiled XP-2 vehicle, designed by Bjarke Ingels Group, which was custom-built with occupant safety and comfort in mind. While the production vehicle will be larger and seat up to 28 passengers, this 2-seater XP-2 vehicle was built to demonstrate that passengers can in fact safely travel in a hyperloop vehicle. The testing campaign, from the beginning stages all the way through to today's successful demonstration, was overseen by the industry-recognised Independent Safety Assessor (ISA) Certifer. Having undergone a rigorous and exhaustive safety process, the XP-2 vehicle demonstrates many of the safety-critical systems that will be found on a commercial hyperloop system and is equipped with a state-of-the-art control system that can detect off-nominal states and rapidly trigger appropriate emergency responses. "I can't tell you how often I get asked 'is hyperloop safe?'," said Jay Walder, CEO of Virgin Hyperloop. "With today's passenger testing, we have successfully answered this question, demonstrating that not only can Virgin Hyperloop safely put a person in a pod in a vacuum environment, but that the company has a thoughtful approach to safety which has been validated by an independent third party." Virgin Hyperloop continues to be active in the Gulf region. Saudi Arabia is conducting a first-of-its-kind national hyperloop study to evaluate how a hyperloop carrying both passenger and cargo could spark economic benefits, create jobs and develop high-tech skills. The study, commissioned by Saudi Minister of Transport Saleh bin Nasser Al-Jasser, will lay the groundwork for a network of hyperloop routes to be considered ‎across Saudi Arabia. "Today's successful passenger testing brings us one step closer to commercial hyperloop projects in the Gulf region," said Harj Dhaliwal, Managing Director of Middle East and India for Virgin Hyperloop. "Fundamentally, hyperloop is about so much more than the technology - it's about what it enables. The potential is enormous for the GCC to lead the world in hyperloop manufacturing, investment, and job creation." Virgin Hyperloop also announced a partnership with Abu Dhabi's Mohamed bin Zayed University of Artificial Intelligence (MBZUAI) to support the development of hyperloop technology and sustainable transportation through advanced A.I. research. - ENDS -​