Buried Railway Vehicles.

[Ashley Hill]

Over the years many railway vehicles were buried instead of scrapped due to their asbestos content. Famously 27043 in Patersons Tip in Glasgow and two Blue Pullman coaches in Cohens Morriston. There were other vehicles too! Given these burials took place some decades ago has any redevelopment ever taken place (housing/industrial) on these sites that has unearthed such items? Or have any been dug up for a greener disposal?

 

[O L Leigh]

In the event of redevelopment over the top, you'd have to hope that the precise location and orientation of these buried vehicles is known as they are effectively subterranean voids. I'm not sure that you could rely on the structural integrity of these vehicles after so many years.

 

[randyrippley]

why were those specific vehicles treated differently from the rest?

 

[deltic14]

why were those specific vehicles treated differently from the rest?

Asbestos I believe.

 

[randyrippley]

Asbestos I believe.

That's the point. The rest of the class also had asbestos but were scrapped. What was different?

 

[Journeyman]

There was a very persistent rumour that at least one vehicle was buried at the Tyne and Wear Metro depot in BR days, but recent investigations failed to locate anything.

That's the point. The rest of the class also had asbestos but were scrapped. What was different?

Nothing, necessarily. Different places dealt with it in different ways. The two main methods were manual stripping out (expensive and more hazardous, but used mainly for vehicles remaining in service) and the burning method, which allowed the particles to be safely washed away and disposed, but obviously that destroyed the bodyshell.

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

Not quite digging up, but various asbestos-contaminated NIR (and some CIÉ) stock was dumped in a flooded quarry at Crosshill, near Crumlin in County Antrim, in the 1980s. The quarry was then drained and the vehicles recovered, crushed (according to some sources) and buried encapsulated in clay on the same site in the early 21st century. Apparently the move was triggered by the vehicles being "unintentionally exposed" while partially draining the quarry, see https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/lt/645/645836/645836en.pdf. (There's an old thread on Crosshill Quarry here, but it doesn't discuss events subsequent to the initial dumping.)

 

[Ashley Hill]

In the event of redevelopment over the top, you'd have to hope that the precise location and orientation of these buried vehicles is known as they are effectively subterranean voids. I'm not sure that you could rely on the structural integrity of these vehicles after so many years.

This was something I was wondering. I assume it to be classed as contaminated ground and subject to regulations. I would imagine such a vehicle would have to either be removed or avoided during any development.
Does anyone know what the Cohen's and Patersons sites are currently used for?

 

[Cowley]

Not quite digging up, but various asbestos-contaminated NIR (and some CIÉ) stock was dumped in a flooded quarry at Crosshill, near Crumlin in County Antrim, in the 1980s. The quarry was then drained and the vehicles recovered, crushed (according to some sources) and buried encapsulated in clay on the same site in the early 21st century. Apparently the move was triggered by the vehicles being "unintentionally exposed" while partially draining the quarry, see https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/lt/645/645836/645836en.pdf. (There's an old thread on Crosshill Quarry here, but it doesn't discuss events subsequent to the initial dumping.)

That’s fascinating. I’d never heard of it before.

 

[Journeyman]

OK, let's imagine you could dig up a perfectly preserved assumed-extinct class of your choice - what are we having?

 

[Cowley]

OK, let's imagine you could dig up a perfectly preserved assumed-extinct class of your choice - what are we having?

Can I have a fairly large pit?
If so then possibly a Blue Pullman...

 

[Journeyman]

Can I have a fairly large pit?
If so then possibly a Blue Pullman...

Right, pass me a spade!

 

[Cowley]

Right, pass me a spade!

I’ve got a couple in the van, I’ll bring both of them and the good wheelbarrow.

 

[Journeyman]

I’ve got a couple in the van, I’ll bring both of them and the good wheelbarrow.

Excellent, let's get digging!

 

[Cowley]

Excellent, let's get digging!

Knowing our luck we’ll probably uncover a strategic reserve of Pacers.

 

[Journeyman]

Knowing our luck we’ll probably uncover a strategic reserve of Pacers.

I'm down with that, if we find a couple of class 141s. I want to dig up a Leader as well.

 

[Ashley Hill]

That's the point. The rest of the class also had asbestos but were scrapped. What was different?

Before this thread heads of into fantasy land,I do share your point. Cohen's had already broken several Pullman vehicles so why bury two? I believe they were two of the auxiliary engine cars,would that have made a difference?

 

[bramling]

Over the years many railway vehicles were buried instead of scrapped due to their asbestos content. Famously 27043 in Patersons Tip in Glasgow and two Blue Pullman coaches in Cohens Morriston. There were other vehicles too! Given these burials took place some decades ago has any redevelopment ever taken place (housing/industrial) on these sites that has unearthed such items? Or have any been dug up for a greener disposal?

I seem to remember reading that at least one vehicle from the class 105 which derailed at Lockington Crossing in the 1980s was buried at a landfill somewhere in or near Hull.

Naturally I can’t guarantee the authenticity of this, but it seems plausible, especially as 105s were well known for their asbestos content.

 

[O L Leigh]

This was something I was wondering. I assume it to be classed as contaminated ground and subject to regulations. I would imagine such a vehicle would have to either be removed or avoided during any development.

Well I was thinking more about the risk of the structure of a buried vehicle collapsing under the additional weight of a building resulting in significant ground movement than about contamination of the ground.

I appreciate that these burials were carried out in less environmentally enlightened times, but I would assume that any risk of contamination would be through the movement of groundwater and, therefore, could still happen whether or not the land above had since been redeveloped.

 

[Springs Branch]

This link tells the story of an industrial loco and its train of coal wagons which disappeared into an abandoned mineshaft at a colliery near Wigan in 1945.
It seems the engine and, sadly, the body of its driver are still buried there.

 

[pdeaves]

This link tells the story of an industrial loco and its train of coal wagons which disappeared into an abandoned mineshaft at a colliery near Wigan in 1945.
It seems the engine and, sadly, the body of its driver are still buried there.

I seem to recall, many decades before that, that a Furness Railway (I think) loco disappeared into a hole that opened up under it. The story as it exists in my head is that it was abandoned where it fell. Can someone confirm, correct, etc.?

 

[billh]

There are dozens of diesel and electric locos buried in abandoned coal mines all over the country, it was not considered economic to recover them at the time of closure.
I can lend a pick & shovel to any keen enthusiast.

 

[Watford West]

On the Cromford and High Peak railway. The section from the canal up the first incline was cable worked from a steam winding engine at the top. I remember when I visited some years ago, that there was a catch pit near the bottom of the incline to catch runaways. Inside there was at least one wagon that never made it! Would have been quite a spectacle watch that descending at speed!

 

[HSP 2]

I seem to recall, many decades before that, that a Furness Railway (I think) loco disappeared into a hole that opened up under it. The story as it exists in my head is that it was abandoned where it fell. Can someone confirm, correct, etc.?

The collapse happened at Lindal in Furness in the 19th century, quick thinking by the loco crew in knocking out the coupling between the engine and tender prevented the train getting dragged into the hole. It has been estimated that the engine is between 100' and 150' down. The Furness railway kept passenger trains running by detraining them one one side of the hole walking them around the hole and retraining them on a different train I may add.


Copyright unknown.

 

[WesternLancer]

On the Cromford and High Peak railway. The section from the canal up the first incline was cable worked from a steam winding engine at the top. I remember when I visited some years ago, that there was a catch pit near the bottom of the incline to catch runaways. Inside there was at least one wagon that never made it! Would have been quite a spectacle watch that descending at speed!

I think it was placed there for illustrative purposes IIRC

 

[furnessvale]

I seem to recall, many decades before that, that a Furness Railway (I think) loco disappeared into a hole that opened up under it. The story as it exists in my head is that it was abandoned where it fell. Can someone confirm, correct, etc.?

The story is true. A loco and tender went down a sinkhole or old mineshaft. The tender was recovered but the loco is still down there, running on the hades railway!

 

[scarby]

I seem to remember reading that at least one vehicle from the class 105 which derailed at Lockington Crossing in the 1980s was buried at a landfill somewhere in or near Hull.

Naturally I can’t guarantee the authenticity of this, but it seems plausible, especially as 105s were well known for their asbestos content.

By all accounts you are absolutely right. It's buried at a tip near Willerby.

 

[Gloster]

I seem to recall, many decades before that, that a Furness Railway (I think) loco disappeared into a hole that opened up under it. The story as it exists in my head is that it was abandoned where it fell. Can someone confirm, correct, etc.?

Furness Railway 115, an 0-6-0, fell down a shaft at Lindal in 1892.

 

[scarby]

By all accounts you are absolutely right. It's buried at a tip near Willerby.

Actually I just looked this up. According to "Lockington, Crash at the Crossing" by Richard M Jones, "the remains of carriages one and two... were wrapped in a double layer of plastic sheeting and buried at Willerby landfill site just two months after the disaster".

However, according to railcar.co.uk, 51278 and 54434 were "Scrapped by EEC (Blackpool) Ltd at Hull Dairycoates".

 

[bramling]

Actually I just looked this up. According to "Lockington, Crash at the Crossing" by Richard M Jones, "the remains of carriages one and two... were wrapped in a double layer of plastic sheeting and buried at Willerby landfill site just two months after the disaster".

However, according to railcar.co.uk, 51278 and 54434 were "Scrapped by EEC (Blackpool) Ltd at Hull Dairycoates".

Bit of a mystery then. Could it be that scrapping was planned, then the presence of disturbed asbestos was found and no one wanted to touch it, so it was taken to landfill instead?