Bus "full"

[221129]

Finally, a bus operator has gone vocal about turning passengers away because the bus is 40% full

I'm surprised they don't do a Lothian and just not give a damn about it!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I'm surprised they don't do a Lothian and just not give a damn about it!

It's a lot easier to impose measures than it is to remove them, especially when it's about keeping people safe. I'm sure McGill's would be subject to criticism in the media if they removed the capacity limits!

For the record, their subsidiary in Dundee do not limit capacity and leave it up to passengers to decide whether a bus is too full, either by not getting on, or getting off and catching the next bus. This is the primary reason Xplore reinstated full frequencies on all core routes a few weeks ago.

 

[Stan Drews]

It's a lot easier to impose measures than it is to remove them, especially when it's about keeping people safe. I'm sure McGill's would be subject to criticism in the media if they removed the capacity limits!

For the record, their subsidiary in Dundee do not limit capacity and leave it up to passengers to decide whether a bus is too full, either by not getting on, or getting off and catching the next bus. This is the primary reason Xplore reinstated full frequencies on all core routes a few weeks ago.

That’s largely what McGill’s do in the west of Scotland too, and they also went back to normal service levels at the same time as Xplore Dundee. However, I think the issue is that the reduced capacity is now being reached on an increasing number of journeys on the busiest routes, so if there isn’t a change to the social distancing requirements soon, they risk losing passengers as they are unable to carry them safely.

 

[Ianno87]

Most of the routes are not even back at pre covid frequencies, so they should have some resource knocking around.

You are assuming the level of resource is the same as pre-Covid. Drivers may have left and not been replaced, for example.

 

[Bikeman78]

For the record, their subsidiary in Dundee do not limit capacity and leave it up to passengers to decide whether a bus is too full, either by not getting on, or getting off and catching the next bus. This is the primary reason Xplore reinstated full frequencies on all core routes a few weeks ago.

Which is how it should be. People happily wedge onto trains into Brighton, or local trains around London. I doubt anyone that is worried about Covid is going anywhere near a bus anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which is how it should be. People happily wedge onto trains into Brighton, or local trains around London. I doubt anyone that is worried about Covid is going anywhere near a bus anyway.

I noted with some amusement on Saturday that on Chiltern people were strictly avoiding the seats marked as out of use...and cramming into the vestibule instead. Somewhat counterproductive.

 

[Bikeman78]

I noted with some amusement on Saturday that on Chiltern people were strictly avoiding the seats marked as out of use...and cramming into the vestibule instead. Somewhat counterproductive.

I've noticed similar behaviour on the tube. Some people won't sit in a seat between two other people but will stand six inches away from another person in a doorway.

 

[Geordie driver]

You are assuming the level of resource is the same as pre-Covid. Drivers may have left and not been replaced, for example.

You are right there, my former work place had over 50% off with covid at the same time, some of these will have become long term and of course, some have died. Even in the high unemployment north east bus companies struggle to recruit and retain.

Many of the drivers over 60 have taken their pensions and ran, and who can blame them?

 

[Darandio]

Walking the youngest to school this morning three consecutive buses passed with the 'Bus Full' messaging, at one stop there were at least 15 people left behind. Obviously more people are starting to venture out now and then next week the numbers will probably get even greater so something needs to be done now.

By all means tape the front couple of seats off for the driver if you must and have the windows open if it makes you feel better, but people really need to be left to manage their own risk now and decide whether they want to be on the bus or not.

 

[LancasterRed]

I'm aware that at least one school bus service in Preston now has to leave people behind, because it is completely filling up (Optare Solo) and the local area isn't exactly the safest.

Capacity needs to be improved across the board.

 

[ALEMASTER]

If it is a dedicated school service social distancing rules don't apply (as all the kids are in the same school bubble) so the bus full sign is unlikely to be used.

On a public bus social distancing is a requirement - 1 metre plus face coverings. Typically this achieved by limiting double seats to 1 person and sitting in a zig zag formation plus taping off the front seat by the driver out of use (as passengers stand there getting on/off. The bus operators are required to identify a socially distance capacity for each vehicle and deny boarding to further passengers once reached in order to provide a safe environment for those already on board.

 

[Robertj21a]

It is not a legal requirement to allow only a certain number on board a bus (or train), it has only ever been guidance. Some operators have always used their own judgement in such cases.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Bus capacity guidance is to be relaxed, albeit not entirely, from 17th May, in England (outside of London, though).

Change to allow greater bus capacity in England from 17 May - routeone

DfT has agreed with a risk-based case document from CPT that will permit increased bus capacity in England from 17 May.

www.route-one.net

Change to allow greater bus capacity in England from 17 May

The Department for Transport has accepted a risk-based case produced by the Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT) for the use of every forward-facing seat on bus services in England. As a result, that will be permitted outside London from Monday 17 May where capacity is currently constrained on busy journeys.

While the change will be welcomed by operators that have seen difficulties on certain trips, CPT has been careful to stress that the development does not represent a ‘big bang’ approach of a return to full capacity across the board.

The Confederation adds that the relaxation – agreed by Under-Secretary of State for Transport Baroness Vere – is in response to issues experienced on some journeys under the current limitation that allows around 40-45% of a bus’s total seating to be used. Demand is expected to further increase shortly as further restrictions in England are lifted. Rear- and side-facing seats still should not be used after 17 May, however.

“This is about trying to solve problems at peak times,” says a CPT spokesperson. They add that at less busy times, it should still be the case that passengers are expected to socially distance when on board. However, the Confederation believes that if the step was not taken now there is a risk of long-term damage to patronage and a diversion of some customers to “unsustainable modes.”

CPT’s risk-based case represents an update of a previous document from 2020. It enabled the use of one of every pair of forward-facing seats, except by those travelling in family groups where both positions can be occupied. CPT says that the 17 May change takes into account the low prevalence of COVID-19, the rapid rollout of the vaccination programme and a greater knowledge of on-bus ventilation.

In acknowledging the risk-based case document, Baroness Vere notes that the safer transport guidance for operators already states that when a 2m distance cannot be kept, a 1m distance should be maintained – but “where possible.” Therefore, the 1m distance is not an “absolute requirement,” says CPT.

In a letter to CPT Chief Executive Graham Vidler dated 10 May, Baroness Vere says that each operator should be encouraged to implement safety measures – including social distancing – based on the circumstances of their operation, as well as learnings gained throughout the pandemic. Lady Vere adds that each operator should adopt a consistent approach going forwards “to avoid confusion among passengers.”

The change does not apply to coaches, CPT adds. However, it is working to build a separate, evidence-based case for the coach sector that it expects to deliver “very soon.”

Hopefully TfL, and the devolved nations follow suit!

 

[Birdbrain]

Great news to hear. I was worried about capacity as things ease on Monday.

 

[Eyersey468]

Great news to hear. I was worried about capacity as things ease on Monday.

It is good news, we were told about it today.

 

[WM Bus]

Drunk man didn't want a driver to let a woman with a pushchair and young kids on a 94 last night.

"One of the drivers let a woman with young children & pushchair on as well, some drunk man who boarded an already busy bus told the driver he can't let them on as the bus is already full and then took pics of the little children. Driver took no notice of this idiot which is good. Sounds like a nasty man, he should be the one who gets off and waits for the next one on a wet & cold night when the service is running with severe delays, if he has a problem."
VERY Late running services (wmbusphotos.com)

Also there has been really severe congestion due to roadworks on the Ward End services meaning the 55/94 have been running severely late this week. With the Washwood Heath Road at a standstill and moving nowhere.

 

[L401CJF]

I had a guy on the other afternoon having a go at me right up against the screen because the bus was "too full" and that I shouldn't allow 2 school kids to stand in the empty buggy bay (I don't really care if they choose to stand but even so I couldn't see them as the cab door frame obstructs that side of the mirror on those buses)

I just told him to jog on in the end, I had 21 passengers on a bus that's allowed 21 passengers.

Edit: Also been told our capacities are up from Monday, but not sure by how much yet.

 

[Eyersey468]

I had a guy on the other afternoon having a go at me right up against the screen because the bus was "too full" and that I shouldn't allow 2 school kids to stand in the empty buggy bay (I don't really care if they choose to stand but even so I couldn't see them as the cab door frame obstructs that side of the mirror on those buses)

I just told him to jog on in the end, I had 21 passengers on a bus that's allowed 21 passengers.

Edit: Also been told our capacities are up from Monday, but not sure by how much yet.

We have been told all forward facing seats will be able to be used so presumably that will be the case for all operators

 

[Robertj21a]

We have been told all forward facing seats will be able to be used so presumably that will be the case for all operators

Yes, that's my understanding too - all seats available except any bench type or rearward facing.

 

[158756]

I don't know how strictly these rules are enforced anywhere else, but I was on a bus a couple of weeks ago with all bar one or two seats downstairs taken + standees. Don't know how full it was upstairs.

 

[PaulWC]

An Arriva on the 360 Warrington to Wigan passed me on the A49 out of Warrington yesterday which was showing the bus full sign. I'm assuming the driver put the wrong display up as there was only two passengers on board!!!!

 

[Snow1964]

Yes, that's my understanding too - all seats available except any bench type or rearward facing.

Thats what I have also heard, max capacity increases to equal all forward facing seats. But off-peak still recommended to only use the window seats (unless family group)

Rear and side facing seats still to be blocked, and standing capacity not included at this stage

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thats what I have also heard, max capacity increases to equal all forward facing seats. But off-peak still recommended to only use the window seats (unless family group)

I'm not sure whether that recommendation is really necessary, as that is the default anyway - only the "nutter on the bus" (with respect to Jasper Carrott) sits next to someone else when they don't have to.

On most trains, if you assume everyone is travelling alone, you will get a few in the vestibules before all the second seats of a pair are taken. And certainly in London I stand on the bus if there are only seats next to people available.

 

[johncrossley]

Hopefully TfL, and the devolved nations follow suit!

Transport for London (TfL) will implement similar increases in capacity, typically up to 60 for double deckers from Monday.

 

[gray1404]

I used the X5 from MK to Oxford on Monday, and the largest number on board was I think 4.

Now that the guidance from the DfT is that all forward facing seats can be used on a bus (except any too near the driver) I don't think getting a seat or being able to board the X5 will be an issue given coaches are used on the route.

 

[dan5324]

Coach capacity has also been increased. National Express is returning to full capacity form Saturday 29th, minus the two seats behind the driver.

 

[johnnychips]

Took an extremely busy double decker Stagecoach route 3 from Kingsbridge to Dartmouth today, which bizarrely included six dogs. Fortunately they were good boys; everyone in holiday mood. Later the bus I was on passed a 12 from Paignton to Torquay showing Bus Full, when it was nothing like. I wonder if the driver knows the new rules yet?

 

[dan5324]

Took an extremely busy double decker Stagecoach route 3 from Kingsbridge to Dartmouth today, which bizarrely included six dogs. Fortunately they were good boys; everyone in holiday mood. Later the bus I was on passed a 12 from Paignton to Torquay showing Bus Full, when it was nothing like. I wonder if the driver knows the new rules yet?

Ha. Most drivers will do anything they can to keep their bus as empty as possible…

 

[johnnychips]

Ha. Most drivers will do anything they can to keep their bus as empty as possible…

Obviously the driver of the 3 was a dog lover then!

 

[dan5324]

Obviously the driver of the 3 was a dog lover then!

I’d probably sooner drive around dogs, than members of the general public tbh. Bet the bus would be cleaner too!