Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Gingerbus1991]

They do.

Those are hideous looking!

 

[Swanny200]

Thing with the likes of Neoplan, Setra and the likes, they all produce some lovely bodies and used to (in the coach sense) be regarded as a premium brand then Setra pulled out of the RHD coach sector for the UK and Neoplan apart from the one body hasn't made inroads into the UK for a while, the also rans of Berkhof and Jonckheere have also pulled out from a coach sense apart from Berkhof with a few of their Long distance double deck coaches. In a bus sense the Neoplans were in a small number (I can remember Arriva North West running some and may still do in Liverpool) and the UK seems to like buses made here (and NI), the only real overseas bus imports that I can really remember actually selling in large numbers was the Citaro and even Mercedes seem to have issues selling enough of the new models in this country as everyone seems to be preferring Wright, ADL or Optare, as for engines I remember a lot of the really early MAN stuff being fairly decent but then it went downhill fairly rapidly and they were certainly nowhere in the same regard as the much renowned and lauded Volvo B10.

 

[mbonwick]

the also rans of Berkhof and Jonckheere have also pulled out from a coach sense apart from Berkhof with a few of their Long distance double deck coaches.

Really? Plenty of new Joncks around the place, especially with big coaching companies, e.g. Parks, Travellers Choice, Lochs & Glens....
Jonckheere have never, and will never be a big player as that's not their market strategy, but they're certainly not declining.

 

[Swanny200]

I wasn't even aware Jonckheere was still around, I have not seen one in about 3 or 4 years, I thought they had pulled out, I stand corrected.

Edit: I have just seen a picture of one I didn't even realise it was a Jonck, I have seen a few and always thought it was one of the Chinese makes or a Bova of some kind.

 

[507021]

In a bus sense the Neoplans were in a small number (I can remember Arriva North West running some and may still do in Liverpool)

The Neoplans were withdrawn over ten years ago, that makes me feel old!

They were good buses, IMO.

 

[jammy36]

Thing with the likes of Neoplan, Setra and the likes, they all produce some lovely bodies and used to (in the coach sense) be regarded as a premium brand then Setra pulled out of the RHD coach sector for the UK and Neoplan apart from the one body hasn't made inroads into the UK for a while, the also rans of Berkhof and Jonckheere have also pulled out from a coach sense apart from Berkhof with a few of their Long distance double deck coaches.

Before pulling out of the RHD market Setra only offered a limited range of products here, compared with their full continental range. Given that the UK and Éire is a relatively small market it seemed a sensible decision for EvoBus to concentrate on an expanded Tourismo range for their RHD offering. Certainly, a number of their volume customers simply swapped from the Setra 400 to the Tourismo (they share much componentry) and the Tourismo has also won many new customers and repeat orders. The success of the Tourismo has more than off-set the withdrawal of the Kässbohrer Setra brand. Whilst Setra has always been well regarded by coach opperators I'd think that for Trevor and Phyllis on their coach holiday a vehicle with the Mercedes star would be much more meaningful than one bearing the Kässbohrer winged K.

As noted above Jonckheere are very much alive and kicking, offering their JHV/2 body on Volvo chassis and retain a loyal customer base.

Berkhof have been subsumed within VDL (along with Bova and VDL Jonckheere). For a while Berkhof bodies remained in production (badged as VDLs), with the Synergy DD coach being the last to be replaced with the introduction of the Futura DD coach.

 

[alangla]

Have RATP suddenly bought a load for Paris?

Do RATP ever buy anything other than Renault for Paris? Not been there for about 5 years but it did seem to be mainly Renault back then.

 

[radamfi]

Obviously ADL and Wright build cheap, uncomfortable buses, but who's fault is that? They just build what the client wants. Yes, the Lion's City is a very nice bus. Personally I have found that after getting used to riding in such comfort on those and other quality heavyweight vehicles, I have little interest in riding in what passes for a bus in the UK.

ADL has always been low quality but Wright-bodied Volvos used to be reasonably comfortable, especially the single deckers that First used to buy in bulk. But the Streetlite is quite an abomination.

The UK bus passenger is treated atrociously in this respect, even in regulated London who also buy this rubbish.

 

[Speedbird96]

Obviously ADL and Wright build cheap, uncomfortable buses, but who's fault is that? They just build what the client wants. Yes, the Lion's City is a very nice bus. Personally I have found that after getting used to riding in such comfort on those and other quality heavyweight vehicles, I have little interest in riding in what passes for a bus in the UK.

ADL has always been low quality but Wright-bodied Volvos used to be reasonably comfortable, especially the single deckers that First used to buy in bulk. But the Streetlite is quite an abomination.

The UK bus passenger is treated atrociously in this respect, even in regulated London who also buy this rubbish.

What counts as comfortable or uncomfortable is subjective, it all depends on how bus operators specify the interiors. Yes, cheap but uncomfortable?? Sometimes higher quality doesn't always mean great results... I'm mainly looking at the Mercedes Citaro, and the likelihood of MAN selling any new buses in the UK is slim given their poor reputation.

Sadly, heavyweight single decks have fallen out of favour as bus operators look for better fuel efficiency... ADL, Optare and Wright have carved out a niche for supplying lightweight buses with higher capacity, hence the likes of the Enviro300 (no longer produced since 2015), Eclipse 3, Tempo SR, integral Volvos and integral Scanias falling out of favour. Even orders for the Citaro have stagnated.

 

[radamfi]

What counts as comfortable or uncomfortable is subjective, it all depends on how bus operators specify the interiors. Yes, cheap but uncomfortable?? Sometimes higher quality doesn't always mean great results... I'm mainly looking at the Mercedes Citaro, and the likelihood of MAN selling any new buses in the UK is slim given their poor reputation.

Sadly, heavyweight single decks have fallen out of favour as bus operators look for better fuel efficiency... ADL, Optare and Wright have carved out a niche for supplying lightweight buses with higher capacity, hence the likes of the Enviro300 (no longer produced since 2015), Eclipse 3, Tempo SR, integral Volvos and integral Scanias falling out of favour. Even orders for the Citaro have stagnated.

All British operators can do is to order thicker cushioned, leather seats with better legroom with gimmicks like USB charging and Wi-Fi. But the bus will still be too hot in summer and steam up in the rain and in winter. When compared to an air-conditioned Lion's City with even a basic interior, there is no contest.

 

[Andyh82]

Obviously ADL and Wright build cheap, uncomfortable buses, but who's fault is that? They just build what the client wants. Yes, the Lion's City is a very nice bus. Personally I have found that after getting used to riding in such comfort on those and other quality heavyweight vehicles, I have little interest in riding in what passes for a bus in the UK.

ADL has always been low quality but Wright-bodied Volvos used to be reasonably comfortable, especially the single deckers that First used to buy in bulk. But the Streetlite is quite an abomination.

The UK bus passenger is treated atrociously in this respect, even in regulated London who also buy this rubbish.

Well that’s a very generalised post, surely it depends on how the operator specs the bus they are buying?

Suggesting buses outside of the UK are all luxuriously appointed is false, I’ve travelled on urban city buses abroad (most recently in Spain) where the seats are plastic seats with the tiniest of padded inserts. You wouldn’t get that here.

 

[radamfi]

Suggesting buses outside of the UK are all luxuriously appointed is false

Where did I say that buses outside of the UK are "all luxuriously appointed"? I was talking about the Lion's City "and other quality heavyweight vehicles".

 

[Mwanesh]

The problem we have here is every one has their own opinion. As pointed above the Man Lioncity save for a few with Arriva and Go Ahead they have not really taken off . After sales support in UK is nothing to write about. No matter what they build in UK it will never be good for our members here . If some of our continental neighbours and American states are buying ADL products they must be doing something good.

 

[CM]

Well that’s a very generalised post, surely it depends on how the operator specs the bus they are buying?

Suggesting buses outside of the UK are all luxuriously appointed is false, I’ve travelled on urban city buses abroad (most recently in Spain) where the seats are plastic seats with the tiniest of padded inserts. You wouldn’t get that here.

Plenty of buses in the UK have been fitted with plastic seats with small patches of fabric stuck on. A good example is the copious amounts of dealer stock Plaxton bodied Dart SLFs sold over the years. I'm also pretty certain that most of early dealer stock Enviro 200s had them fitted as well.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Unpopular opinion i know, but the Citaro is highly overrated and highly overpriced. The Interior layout for a start is appalling and not very ergonomic with the random seat over the rear wheel arch that sits miles above the rest etc.

All British operators can do is to order thicker cushioned, leather seats with better legroom with gimmicks like USB charging and Wi-Fi. But the bus will still be too hot in summer and steam up in the rain and in winter. When compared to an air-conditioned Lion's City with even a basic interior, there is no contest.

I'd hardly call USB charging and Wi-Fi gimmicks, nobody is going to ride on a bus just because it has those - however they do improve the passenger experience, especially over longer journeys.

Air-Con is pointless in the UK, especially the further north you get. All it does is drain fuel and add something else to the maintenance list. Just having opening hopper windows and a air chill system work much better for the UK climate anyway. steamed up windows are down to buses these days having single glazing to save weight. Air-Con being fitted doesn't make any difference. From what others i know have told me, some Lion's Citys can be very poorly built with visible bending and flexing of the bodywork as they go along the road.

Plenty of buses in the UK have been fitted with plastic seats with small patches of fabric stuck on. A good example is the copious amounts of dealer stock Plaxton bodied Dart SLFs sold over the years. I'm also pretty certain that most of early dealer stock Enviro 200s had them fitted as well.

Urban 90 seats... Easily the most hated seat to ever feature in a bus in the UK in recent times! Many rusty old BMC Falcon's had them.

 

[cnjb8]

I've been reading multiple forums and when the subject of a StreetLite comes up, everyone seems to go crazy about how awful they are. And as I'm not a driver and these buses don't come to Notts, what's so bad about them?
Thanks

 

[radamfi]

Air-Con is pointless in the UK, especially the further north you get. All it does is drain fuel and add something else to the maintenance list. Just having opening hopper windows and a air chill system work much better for the UK climate anyway. steamed up windows are down to buses these days having single glazing to save weight. Air-Con being fitted doesn't make any difference.

Air-conditioning is supplied on many buses across northern Europe even in cities with similar summer temperatures to London or Manchester. Hopper windows are less desirable regardless of climate. They are less effective than air-conditioning in summer and cause draughts the rest of the year. Hopper windows are no longer used on new trains. Double glazing is also standard on many if not most northern European operators, so they avoid steamed up windows which make bus travel in the UK in cold and rainy weather particularly unpleasant.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I've been reading multiple forums and when the subject of a StreetLite comes up, everyone seems to go crazy about how awful they are. And as I'm not a driver and these buses don't come to Notts, what's so bad about them?
Thanks

I think the better question regarding Streetlite's is "What's good about them", although people would maybe struggle to answer that.

Without going in to detail here's a summary of some issues.

• Slow.
• Jumpy gearbox.
• Everything rattles.
• Unreliable.
• Air Compressor is far too loud.
• Interior collects heat and makes it very unpleasant year round.
• Shallow windows mean that inside it can become very dark.
• Side windows don't go all the way to the rear.
• Engine housing protrudes in to the rear row of seats.

The list goes on and on and on. By far the worst thing on the market right now.

 

[Speedbird96]

All British operators can do is to order thicker cushioned, leather seats with better legroom with gimmicks like USB charging and Wi-Fi. But the bus will still be too hot in summer and steam up in the rain and in winter. When compared to an air-conditioned Lion's City with even a basic interior, there is no contest.

Which is what most bus operators are specifying now, and the suggestion that USB charging and WiFi are gimmicks is complete rubbish as that's what passengers are asking for on high-profile and long-distance journeys. As for air-conditioning on buses, there is no point we only get short spells of hot weather every year and its inefficient on stopping services.

For comparison sake, I have travelled on buses in both Germany and the Netherlands where there are high proportions of Mercedes and Scanias; utilitarian is the best way to describe them (and I don't mean that as a compliment!)

Unpopular opinion i know, but the Citaro is highly overrated and highly overpriced. The Interior layout for a start is appalling and not very ergonomic with the random seat over the rear wheel arch that sits miles above the rest etc.



I'd hardly call USB charging and Wi-Fi gimmicks, nobody is going to ride on a bus just because it has those - however they do improve the passenger experience, especially over longer journeys.

Air-Con is pointless in the UK, especially the further north you get. All it does is drain fuel and add something else to the maintenance list. Just having opening hopper windows and a air chill system work much better for the UK climate anyway. steamed up windows are down to buses these days having single glazing to save weight. Air-Con being fitted doesn't make any difference. From what others i know have told me, some Lion's Citys can be very poorly built with visible bending and flexing of the bodywork as they go along the road.



Urban 90 seats... Easily the most hated seat to ever feature in a bus in the UK in recent times! Many rusty old BMC Falcon's had them.

You are not the only one to find the Citaro overrated... Dark interior with a poor interior layout, and let's not forget their tendency to burst into flames!

Trent Barton's Wright Eclipses and 07-reg Tempos featured air-conditioning (although the Tempos never worked, go figure!), however given that passengers often opened the hopper windows when the air-conditioning was on, there have been no further order for buses with air-conditioning since 2010.

Air-conditioning is supplied on buses across northern Europe even in cities with similar summer temperatures to London or Manchester. Hopper windows are less desirable regardless of climate. They are less effective than air-conditioning in summer and cause draughts the rest of the year. Hopper windows are no longer used on new trains. Double glazing is also standard on many if not most northern European operators, so they avoid steamed up windows which make bus travel in the UK in cold and rainy weather particularly unpleasant.

What works for Northern European doesn't necessarily work here; air cooling is far preferable as already mentioned upthread. Even without hopper windows, efficiency with air-conditioning is affected by the constant opening and closing of the passenger doors, and what happens if air-conditioning breaks?

Think steamed up windows is the least of passengers concerned, definitely see it as a non-issue as its just part and parcel with the weather we see. Of course, double glazing is beneficial but that does come with a cost.

 

[Jordan Adam]

You are not the only one to find the Citaro overrated... Dark interior with a poor interior layout, and let's not forget their tendency to burst into flames!

Trent Barton's Wright Eclipses and 07-reg Tempos featured air-conditioning (although the Tempos never worked, go figure!), however given that passengers often opened the hopper windows when the air-conditioning was on, there have been no further order for buses with air-conditioning since 2010.

By far the most inviting interiors i have seen of late have all been the ADL range, I've had E200MMC's on my local route since January 2016 and they're very pleasant buses to ride on. They do rattle a little down the front end now (but find me a bus that does...) although it's nothing excessive. Legroom is good at all seats and the curved rear window means the rear portion of the bus is not dark and gloomy like on the Streetlite.

The Enviro500's had it here although it has now been switched off with hopper windows fitted and those under seat box heater/cooling units fitted. While the A/C above each seat was a nice thing to have it drastically impacted on MPG and when it didn't during the summer you had to suffer in a boiling hot bus. The box unit / hopper window system they have now is simply just much superior. I can see the benefit for AC on coaches, but on service buses you've really got to question if there's any point - i think not.

 

[radamfi]

What works for Northern European doesn't necessarily work here; air cooling is far preferable as already mentioned upthread. Even without hopper windows, efficiency with air-conditioning is affected by the constant opening and closing of the passenger doors, and what happens if air-conditioning breaks?

Think steamed up windows is the least of passengers concerned, definitely see it as a non-issue as its just part and parcel with the weather we see. Of course, double glazing is beneficial but that does come with a cost.

Seriously, would British bus operators use hopper windows instead of air-conditioning and single-glazing instead of double-glazing if money was no object? When I was a kid, even coaches had single-glazing but we now expect coaches to have double-glazing. We now have higher standards than we did in the 80s. I wouldn't buy a car without air-conditioning now and I expect a new train to have air-conditioning and double-glazing.

 

[CM]

Seriously, would British bus operators use hopper windows instead of air-conditioning and single-glazing instead of double-glazing if money was no object? When I was a kid, even coaches had single-glazing but we now expect coaches to have double-glazing. We now have higher standards than we did in the 80s. I wouldn't buy a car without air-conditioning now and I expect a new train to have air-conditioning and double-glazing.

Money IS an object, especially in a time where operators are trying to save money due to reduced reimbursment for things like concession passes etc etc. We don't need Air-Con in the UK, simple as that.

 

[Speedbird96]

Seriously, would British bus operators use hopper windows instead of air-conditioning and single-glazing instead of double-glazing if money was no object? When I was a kid, even coaches had single-glazing but we now expect coaches to have double-glazing. We now have higher standards than we did in the 80s. I wouldn't buy a car without air-conditioning now and I expect a new train to have air-conditioning and double-glazing.

You are missing the point, the majority of UK bus services don't do the long-distance journeys compared to what many would do if they travel by car or by train. In regards to outer-suburban services or limited stop services, it would be more justifiable but for everyday stopping services, efficiency outweighs the equipment. Look at Stagecoach Cambridge for example, they only utilise air-cooling and air-conditioning on their guided busway services as they are longer distance and are limited stop where the system is most effective.

Whilst standards have improved and I definitely remember what buses were like in the late-1990s to early-2000s, it is definitely a step-up; growing up in Nottingham, Trent Barton have for years specified double glazing on their buses, was it a defining part of the bus experience? No.

Most people (and me included) want a bus service that is reliable, turns up on-time, affordable and has decent amount of comfort. If money was no object, that would be great but sadly that just isn't going to happen.

By far the most inviting interiors i have seen of late have all been the ADL range, I've had E200MMC's on my local route since January 2016 and they're very pleasant buses to ride on. They do rattle a little down the front end now (but find me a bus that does...) although it's nothing excessive. Legroom is good at all seats and the curved rear window means the rear portion of the bus is not dark and gloomy like on the Streetlite.

The Enviro500's had it here although it has now been switched off with hopper windows fitted and those under seat box heater/cooling units fitted. While the A/C above each seat was a nice thing to have it drastically impacted on MPG and when it didn't during the summer you had to suffer in a boiling hot bus. The box unit / hopper window system they have now is simply just much superior. I can see the benefit for AC on coaches, but on service buses you've really got to question if there's any point - i think not.

In recent years, ADL have upped their game whilst Wright have just dropped in quality since the StreetLites and StreetDecks. NXWM's Enviro200MMCs are nothing to write about, pretty much built on a shoestring but Trent Barton's in comparison are a lovely ride.

Reminds me of the NBfLs, when introduced they featured air-cooling with no hopper windows and were often breaking down and failing to a point sliding windows were fitted. When NCT had the Optare Versas, 6 of them were fitted with air-conditioning (the remaining 14 featured only air-cooling for the driver) for the Pathfinder 100 between Nottingham and Southwell, but more often than not, the air-conditioning was often broken which made for an unbearable journey, but at least they did have hopper windows. Even NCT have stated publicly on Facebook and Twitter that the cost of fitting air-conditioning onto their buses would drive up their overall running costs.

 

[radamfi]

Money IS an object

That's the problem. We have substandard buses because of the lack of money.

 

[Jordan Adam]

That's the problem. We have substandard buses because of the lack of money.

I'd hardly call them "substandard" just because there's no AC, what'a bizarre way of thinking.

In recent years, ADL have upped their game whilst Wright have just dropped in quality since the StreetLites and StreetDecks. NXWM's Enviro200MMCs are nothing to write about, pretty much built on a shoestring but Trent Barton's in comparison are a lovely ride.

Reminds me of the NBfLs, when introduced they featured air-cooling with no hopper windows and were often breaking down and failing to a point sliding windows were fitted. When NCT had the Optare Versas, 6 of them were fitted with air-conditioning (the remaining 14 featured only air-cooling for the driver) for the Pathfinder 100 between Nottingham and Southwell, but more often than not, the air-conditioning was often broken which made for an unbearable journey, but at least they did have hopper windows. Even NCT have stated publicly on Facebook and Twitter that the cost of fitting air-conditioning onto their buses would drive up their overall running costs.

You're spot on. ADL are still far from perfect, but there's been mass improvements in recent years and that should be commended. Wright on the other hand get worse year on year, they've still not fixed the issue of water leaking through the gap where the roof meets the fibreglass moulds at the front/rear on the Streetlite and Gemini3/Streetdeck!

The NBFL is a classic case of what happens when someone with little knowledge of the industry tries to design a bus. Yes the standard buses may be slated for being "boring", but at the end of the day they're far more practical.

 

[radamfi]

You are missing the point, the majority of UK bus services don't do the long-distance journeys compared to what many would do if they travel by car or by train. In regards to outer-suburban services or limited stop services, it would be more justifiable but for everyday stopping services, efficiency outweighs the equipment. Look at Stagecoach Cambridge for example, they only utilise air-cooling and air-conditioning on their guided busway services as they are longer distance and are limited stop where the system is most effective.

But most buses are "everyday stopping services", meaning you are condemning most bus passengers. Your principal argument is about cost - "efficiency outweighs the equipment". Air-conditioning *is* commonplace on local buses and trams in climates similar to that of the UK. You might think that is a waste of money but they can afford it, so they supply it.

The provision of electric buses in the Netherlands might be illuminating. Electric buses carry heavy batteries so you would have thought that the need for efficiency is particularly acute. But all of the VDL electric buses put into service have air-conditioning and double-glazing, even on very local services operating around Schiphol airport, where all four doors open and close frequently. In order to accommodate this, they have to use opportunity charging and so they have built several expensive charging stations. This means increased layover times compared to a diesel bus, increasing costs even more. They could probably save money by not having air-conditioning, given the mild climate, but air-conditioning is now considered essential.

If money was no object, that would be great but sadly that just isn't going to happen.

Again, you mention money. Whilst you have come up with a number of other ways to justify the lack of mod cons, ultimately you realise that the primary reason is the lack of money.

 

[Speedbird96]

But most buses are "everyday stopping services", meaning you are condemning most bus passengers. Your principal argument is about cost - "efficiency outweighs the equipment". Air-conditioning *is* commonplace on local buses and trams in climates similar to that of the UK. You might think that is a waste of money but they can afford it, so they supply it.

The provision of electric buses in the Netherlands might be illuminating. Electric buses carry heavy batteries so you would have thought that the need for efficiency is particularly acute. But all of the VDL electric buses put into service have air-conditioning and double-glazing, even on very local services operating around Schiphol airport, where all four doors open and close frequently. In order to accommodate this, they have to use opportunity charging and so they have built several expensive charging stations. This means increased layover times compared to a diesel bus, increasing costs even more. They could probably save money by not having air-conditioning, given the mild climate, but air-conditioning is now considered essential.



Again, you mention money. Whilst you have come up with a number of other ways to justify the lack of mod cons, ultimately you realise that the primary reason is the lack of money.

For you to suggest that I’m condemning passengers is greatly exaggerating what I have written. ‍

Do you seriously think I want to be baking hot like everyone else on a bus stuck in traffic like I did this afternoon? No. Would I like air-conditioning? Yes, but is it justifiable given the unseasonable weather and the fact there is little subsidy? No.

There is one thing are forgetting however is that buses in Mainland Europe are heavily subsidised where they can afford such luxuries.

As I and many others have said time and again, cost is everything and unlike the majority of Europe, we don’t have a heavily subsidised bus network that justify the cost of air-conditioning, and there are likely to be further cuts in the future. Many bus operators have justifiably stated why they don’t forsee air-conditioning and sadly I agree with them. By the way, it isn’t just me that is stating this.

 

[TRAX]

They do.

These are bodied by Gemilang, though. Not something you’ll find for Europe.

Really? I didn't see any in Rome. Have RATP suddenly bought a load for Paris? Or STIB for Brussels?

RATP has 1015 MAN buses out of a total of 4812 buses.

Do RATP ever buy anything other than Renault for Paris? Not been there for about 5 years but it did seem to be mainly Renault back then.

RATP has Heuliez, Irisbus/Iveco, MAN, Mercedes-Benz, Renault, Scania, Bolloré, and Solaris. This doesn’t include mini and midibuses.

 

[Jordan Adam]

These are bodied by Gemilang, though. Not something you’ll find for Europe

Admittedly i had forgot about that! Either way MAN do offer a chassis capable of carrying a tri-axle decker body.

 

[duncombec]

Unpopular opinion i know, but the Citaro is highly overrated and highly overpriced. The Interior layout for a start is appalling and not very ergonomic with the random seat over the rear wheel arch that sits miles above the rest etc.

I'm not sure it's that unpopular - I quite agree. The layout is appalling with various size seats all over the place. Continental models are even worse... but this thread is about the UK....

I'd hardly call USB charging and Wi-Fi gimmicks

Of course, AirCon is not remotely a gimmick, is it? It's the usual thread-hijacking personal preferences of the poster.

Air-Con is pointless in the UK, especially the further north you get. All it does is drain fuel and add something else to the maintenance list. Just having opening hopper windows and a air chill system work much better for the UK climate anyway. [...] Air-Con being fitted doesn't make any difference.

Quite agree. I've just looked back through photos of Rome and I can't make out whether they have full AirCon or just cooling (the roof pods seem quite low for full AirCon, and it wasn't hot enough when I was there. The seats were uncomfortable too. A lot of people confuse air conditioning and air cooling anyway. My father has AirCon in his car... he almost never uses it because of the extra fuel it uses, much preferring to open the windows. In any case, full AirCon with regular stops is like opening the fridge door every minute for half an hour and expecting it to keep your food cold.

RATP has 1015 MAN buses out of a total of 4812 buses. [...] RATP has Heuliez, Irisbus/Iveco, MAN, Mercedes-Benz, Renault, Scania, Bolloré, and Solaris. This doesn’t include mini and midibuses.

Thank you. I hadn't realised the figure(21%) was so high... I'm inclined to ask more, such as age of the MAN fleet, then I remember that this thread was supposed to be about UK manufacturers...