Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Mikey C]

Volvo did actually have an electric bus option available in the UK market before ADL and others did but presumably it was extremely expensive, even more so back then, not to mention there was lack of government funding when electric buses were first introduced.


The simple answer? It is more cost effective and profit improving to produce your own chasssis & bodywork.

Manufacturing can be simplified if integral vehicles are designed around their bodywork.

However, electric vehicles aside, the MCV Evora with B8 diesel power seems to have done alright in the UK despite small numbers in comparison to the lightweight ADL single products. I’m surprised the 10.8m model of the Evora has been purchased by quite a few as well when the likes of the Enviro 200 MMC can be had at 10.8m.

I guess comfort and refinement of such models does matter depending on the routes it’s used on by several operators.

Naturally Volvo, Scania or European products are going to be more expensive, however, arguably they seems to be of a higher quality, particularly from a refinement and comfort point of view, I guess that many of these much larger companies have the capital to further their developement teams.

I am quite surprised that Volvo has not tried a lighter weight chassis with a D5K engine or even providing a B5RLE chassis for smaller buses such as the 10.8m Evoras.

The first electric Volvo I guess was quite a niche product for the UK, and it's only with the BZL that they will be making decent sales in the UK.

MCV have done good business on the B8, but to an extent that was handed to them on a plate by Optare and Wrights not being interested in bodying Volvo chassis any more. There was always a market for a more heavy weight alternative to the larger Darts and E200s, which the likes of Volvo, VDL and Scania catered for, while Wrights for example have their GB Hawk now.

 

[GusB]

This isn't exactly news as such, but there was a fairly interesting feature on Alexander Dennis's new facility in Farnborough.

EXCLUSIVE: Inside ADL's skunkworks - Bus & Coach Buyer

The decision by Alexander Dennis to close the former Dennis chassis unit in Guildford in November 2020 may have brought to a close all ADL manufacturing in southern England, but the creation of its base in Farnborough promised some continuity. The swanky offices and industrial unit sited on the...

www.busandcoachbuyer.com

It's a bit lengthy to quote in full.

The decision by Alexander Dennis to close the former Dennis chassis unit in Guildford in November 2020 may have brought to a close all ADL manufacturing in southern England, but the creation of its base in Farnborough promised some continuity.

The swanky offices and industrial unit sited on the perimeter of Farnborough Airport have been off limits for journalists since inception, with only a sketchy explanation of their function available as ADL commissioned the building.

Now, Bus & Coach Buyer has been granted exclusive access to ADL Farnborough, and been inside the ADL ‘skunkworks’ which trouble-shoots new designs as the company goes through one of the most dynamic periods in its history. Electrification of buses has created a raft of new challenges, especially as ADL under NFI ownership has developed its own range of vehicles alongside those with BYD-chassis.

Tucked behind the smart office frontage is one of the biggest development facilities in the UK, which runs a fleet of ‘mules’ to push every design element and modification to its limits. But ADL Farnborough is so much more than just a test facility, as we discovered.

 

[Volvodart]

The Enviro400EV are to be assembled at Larbert.

https://www.alexander-dennis.com/me...rease-zero-emission-manufacturing-capability/

Alexander Dennis repurposes Larbert facility to increase zero-emission manufacturing capability
Published: 05 Apr 2023

Alexander Dennis, a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc., one of the world’s leading independent global bus manufacturers, today announced plans to expand its Larbert head office and facility into a manufacturing site for the future.

The Larbert site will focus on the production of the new Enviro400EV zero-emission bus from August 2023, assembling the next-generation body on the new Alexander Dennis battery-electric chassis. The decision follows a successful pilot programme to build Enviro400FCEV hydrogen fuel cell buses in Larbert.

The move expands Alexander Dennis’s UK manufacturing footprint from two to three production sites, meeting increasing demand for decarbonisation of public transport. The Larbert expansion, which converts existing warehouse space into production lines, supports the company’s 690+ green manufacturing jobs in Scotland. The Enviro400EV double deck that will be assembled at Larbert is the crowd-shifter, a core member of the next generation of battery-electric buses from Alexander Dennis. The double deck bus has been designed to move large numbers of people on busy urban corridors and interurban expresses with a total capacity of up to 96 passengers and an operational range of up to 260 miles on a single charge.

The Alexander Dennis head office remains at Larbert and work has already been completed to revamp the site’s office space to equip it for its future as a flexible environment that brings together key business teams and maximises utilisation under the hybrid working arrangements that are now standard across Alexander Dennis. The changes in Larbert are part of a company-wide modernisation journey that started with the opening of the new Farnborough facility in 2022 and which will continue in coming years as further members of the next generation of zero-emission buses are added to the Alexander Dennis portfolio.

Alexander Dennis has led the introduction of zero-emission mobility in the UK and Ireland since 2016 with the BYD–Alexander Dennis partnership, with close to 1,500 zero-emission vehicles delivered to date.

Alexander Dennis President & Managing Director Paul Davies said: “Over the past couple of years we have been laser focused on a modernisation agenda, underpinned by significant investment in our people, our products and our facilities. We not only need to future-proof our manufacturing capabilities for the ZEvolution but we also need to ensure that we create the best possible working environment in which our people can excel. This is another step on our Alexander Dennis journey to build a sustainable company for the future, with zero-emission buses being at the core of the repurposed and upgraded Larbert site.

“This marks another exciting milestone in our progress and development as a business and continues to define the Alexander Dennis zero-emission range as a serious catalyst for change in the UK bus industry.”

Pat Rafferty, Unite Scottish Secretary, said: “Unite warmly welcomes the announcement by Alexander Dennis to manufacture the next-generation Enviro400EV zero-emission buses and for the Larbert site to be upgraded to enable this exciting expansion. It is a great vote of confidence in Alexander Dennis’ world-class workforce and it helps to sustain hundreds of jobs in the local economy. Unite is pleased to play our full role in helping to firmly establish the company as a market leader in the manufacturing of green buses and to assisting with increasing global demand in order to meet the challenges associated with the decarbonisation of public transport."

Councillor Cecil Meiklejohn, Leader of Falkirk Council said: “Alexander Dennis is a world class leader in bus production and this announcement reinforces their position as a key employer in the Falkirk area. Their modernisation and adaptation to changing markets shows how they are at the forefront of their industry, and we are proud to have them based in our area providing employment and investment opportunities in the coming years.”

 

[37114]

The Enviro400EV are to be assembled at Larbert.

https://www.alexander-dennis.com/me...rease-zero-emission-manufacturing-capability/

I guess ADL will be gutted to miss out on this order from a major customer, which is the sort of order you want when you have a new factory;

https://www.route-one.net/news/volv... BZLs with MCV,buses yet placed by Stagecoach.

 

[Volvodart]

You would expect that there will be Scottish bus funding for electric buses to be built around the time these are coming which will be from Alexander Dennis.

 

[Snow1964]

I guess ADL will be gutted to miss out on this order from a major customer, which is the sort of order you want when you have a new factory;

https://www.route-one.net/news/volvo-bzl-to-form-stagecoach-stockport-170-e-bus-fleet/#:~:text=170 Volvo BZLs with MCV,buses yet placed by Stagecoach.

Volvo did announce 3 weeks ago it was shutting its European bus body business (in Wrocław, Poland) and would going forward produce chassis and work with selected parties to add the bodies, Volvo will market the buses (so Volvo is selling buses, with other companies building the bodies)

Volvo Buses is changing its business model in Europe and will apply the same successful model as it has on several other markets. This means that Volvo Buses will focus its production on chassis and together with external bodybuilders offer customers in Europe a complete range of city and intercity buses as well as coaches for the premium segment. Consequently, Volvo Buses has decided to close its bodybuilding factory in Wroclaw, Poland, during the first quarter of 2024.

Volvo Buses changes business model in Europe and has decided to close its bodybuilding factory in Wroclaw in 2024

Volvo Buses is changing its business model in Europe and will apply the same successful model as it has on several other markets. This means that Volvo Buses will focus its production on chassis and together with external bodybuilders offer customers in Europe a complete range of city and...

www.volvogroup.com

Obviously MCV is one of those partners, I have no idea yet if Volvo will allow ADL to do bodies for Europe under the new plan.

 

[Fleetmaster]

You would expect that there will be Scottish bus funding for electric buses to be built around the time these are coming which will be from Alexander Dennis.

It looks to me like Volvo's UK dealer reaped the reward of putting time and effort into understanding and meeting Stagecoach's needs through their West Scotland order, and Stagecoach were also presumably impressed by the performed the apparently very similar 7900. Could be a major parting of ways here.

 

[GusB]

Once again I will remind everyone to provide a suitable quote when referring to external sites.

Please also ensure that when responding to another post you use the "reply" or "quote" functions; this makes it clear which post you are actually replying to. If someone else posts in the meantime it means that your post then appears out of context.

 

[Volvodart]

Wrightbus are one of the sponsors of the ALBUM (The Association of Local Bus Company Managers) conference in Edinburgh soon, and have said that they are displaying GB Kite Electroliner for First Bus and the similar Hydroliner. I think this may be the first opportunity to see the latter with its "roof" on.

Home - ALBUM Conference 2023

Lothian and ALBUM are delighted to invite you back to the Scottish capital, the City of Edinburgh, for the ALBUM Conference 2023.

albumconference2023.com

 

[Hullian111]

Well, this is news to me:

Translink - Switch Solo SR EV

Operator : Translink Fleet Number : !!! Registration : Unregistered Chassis : Switch Solo SR EV Body : Switch Solo SR EV Notes : Join our Facebook Group www.facebook.com/groups/396815967524113/ © JB Transport Photographs ©

www.flickr.com

Looks to me like the first Solo SR EV - and maybe the first Solo at all - produced since Optare rebranded to Switch?

Translink seems to have kept remarkably quiet about ordering these too. I'm not exactly familiar with the Ulsterbus network, but if not the Foyle operation, which should be covered by its Kite Electroliners in the next couple of months, where might a batch of electric Solos potentially be deployed to?

 

[Snow1964]

Well, this is news to me:

Translink - Switch Solo SR EV

Operator : Translink Fleet Number : !!! Registration : Unregistered Chassis : Switch Solo SR EV Body : Switch Solo SR EV Notes : Join our Facebook Group www.facebook.com/groups/396815967524113/ © JB Transport Photographs ©

www.flickr.com

Looks to me like the first Solo SR EV - and maybe the first Solo at all - produced since Optare rebranded to Switch?

Translink seems to have kept remarkably quiet about ordering these too. I'm not exactly familiar with the Ulsterbus network, but if not the Foyle operation, which should be covered by its Kite Electroliners in the next couple of months, where might a batch of electric Solos potentially be deployed to?

What's the item which appears to be taped to the emergency exit door

 

[MCR247]

Well, this is news to me:

Translink - Switch Solo SR EV

Operator : Translink Fleet Number : !!! Registration : Unregistered Chassis : Switch Solo SR EV Body : Switch Solo SR EV Notes : Join our Facebook Group www.facebook.com/groups/396815967524113/ © JB Transport Photographs ©

www.flickr.com

Looks to me like the first Solo SR EV - and maybe the first Solo at all - produced since Optare rebranded to Switch?

Translink seems to have kept remarkably quiet about ordering these too. I'm not exactly familiar with the Ulsterbus network, but if not the Foyle operation, which should be covered by its Kite Electroliners in the next couple of months, where might a batch of electric Solos potentially be deployed to?

Does anyone know what the two orange circles are either side of the front destination display?

 

[Hullian111]

Does anyone know what the two orange circles are either side of the front destination display?

School bus lights; Translink (mostly Ulsterbus, by the looks of it) operate hundreds of school bus services across NI, and those lights are standard on all their buses. From what I’ve seen, they only come on when the doors are opened.

 

[Beemax]

According to 'Buses' magazine there are six of these. Four in blue and two in green for the Giant's Causeway shuttles

 

[Snow1964]

Wrightbus have won an order for 48 electric double decks for Stagecoach London.

Leading bus manufacturer Wrightbus has secured a new order to deliver 48 zero emission buses for Stagecoach in London.

The double deck Electroliners will be ready by the end of the year and will enable passengers to enjoy greener, cleaner journeys.

The new buses will be manufactured at Wrightbus’s headquarters in Ballymena in Northern Ireland, supporting hundreds of new high-skilled jobs to help level up and grow the economy.

The deal comes on the back of a string of new orders, including a £25.3 million contract to supply 117 battery-electric vehicles for First Bus across the UK.

Wrightbus secures new deal to deliver zero emission buses to London

Leading bus manufacturer Wrightbus has secured a new order to deliver 48 zero emission buses for Stagecoach in London.

wrightbus.com

Seems Wrightbus are getting fair share of the London double deck market, but Operators not choosing BYD-ADL recently seem to prefer Volvo - MCV for London single decks.

 

[Goldfish62]

Seems Wrightbus are getting fair share of the London double deck market, but Operators not choosing BYD-ADL recently seem to prefer Volvo - MCV for London single decks.

Probably predicatable. BYD/ADL with relatively old technology have had a virtual monopoly until recently. The Volvo and Wrightbus offerings are technically more advanced.

 

[MotCO]

Probably predicatable. BYD/ADL with relatively old technology have had a virtual monopoly until recently. The Volvo and Wrightbus offerings are technically more advanced.

Will the new in-house AD EV be more competitive?

 

[Goldfish62]

Will the new in-house AD EV be more competitive?

Almost certainly. ADL will have used the latest technology.

 

[christopher]

The BYD aftermarket support is shocking hence the switch to other manufacturers, ADLs new EVs also have a long lead time so expect more Wrightbus orders

 

[Jordan Adam]

The BYD aftermarket support is shocking hence the switch to other manufacturers, ADLs new EVs also have a long lead time so expect more Wrightbus orders

Add on to that the fact most other products are getting range that's around 100 miles greater.

The new generation Enviro400EV isn't expected to break the market until the end of the year and there hasn't been any official announcement or confirmation of a new generation Enviro200EV yet so we can only assume that's at least a few years away.

 

[Mikey C]

Wright seem to have done a good job with their electric buses, it's interesting how the ADL/BYD product which dominated the early market is being overtaken.

Plus the Optare/Switch products which seem to have been completely bypassed.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Wrightbus have won an order for 48 electric double decks for Stagecoach London.

Wrightbus secures new deal to deliver zero emission buses to London

Leading bus manufacturer Wrightbus has secured a new order to deliver 48 zero emission buses for Stagecoach in London.

wrightbus.com

Seems Wrightbus are getting fair share of the London double deck market, but Operators not choosing BYD-ADL recently seem to prefer Volvo - MCV for London single decks.

I think geo-politically that a great change, who knows where global issues will lead given the tension between China(BYD being an Chinese company) and the USA then the rest of the US-allied countries?

If it were up to me I’d be buying all Volvo/MCV products.

Wrightbus integrals, regardless of their propulsion, aren’t great buses. They're over complicated to work with as a driver, irritating almost.

ADL’s latest EV double decker seems promising but if the drivability of recent electric/hydrogens to the market is anything to go by I don’t hold much hope.

I seen elsewhere on this forum someone mentioning that EV models found in Europe have a noticeable benefit in acceleration over EVs produced for the UK market. It’s one of my biggest pet peeves with electric buses; they strive to do everything at their own pace and not the driver's.

I’m surprised we didn’t see a full-size single decker EV from ADL, something like a 12-13m Enviro 300EV for example with the same claimed range of up to 260miles like ADLs new 400EV.

 

[MotCO]

Wright seem to have done a good job with their electric buses, it's interesting how the ADL/BYD product which dominated the early market is being overtaken.

Plus the Optare/Switch products which seem to have been completely bypassed.

And don't forget the Volvo BZL / MCV may also steal a march on AD.

(And how come the BZL and Wright Electroliner can claim so many orders when Optare/ Switch was there before them, but seem to struggle to get any orders?)

 

[Goldfish62]

I seen elsewhere on this forum someone mentioning that EV models found in Europe have a noticeable benefit in acceleration over EVs produced for the UK market. It’s one of my biggest pet peeves with electric buses; they strive to do everything at their own pace and not the driver's.

They can accelerate much faster if set to do so - it's deliberately limited so as not to throw passengers down the bus.

While I've travelled on a lot of electric buses, it's only been in London and Manchester. Acceleration has always seemed more than adequate, and certainly at least on a par with diesel. In fact, the one journey I had in Manchester was a little alarming to say the least.

 

[Mikey C]

And don't forget the Volvo BZL / MCV may also steal a march on AD.

(And how come the BZL and Wright Electroliner can claim so many orders when Optare/ Switch was there before them, but seem to struggle to get any orders?)

Also, ADL introducing its own integral E400EV is likely to make the current BYD version a bit of an orphan

 

[Goldfish62]

Also, ADL introducing its own integral E400EV is likely to make the current BYD version a bit of an orphan

Apart from TfGM have there been any recent orders for BYD/ADL?

 

[Fleetmaster]

Wright seem to have done a good job with their electric buses, it's interesting how the ADL/BYD product which dominated the early market is being overtaken.

Equally bizarrely since they seemed to be banking on Hydrogen. L

I'm guessing they're still benefitting from the pre-JCB early investment and restructuring to make the business more focused on developing bodybuilding and motive power options separately (while still retaining the skill of integration), where supplier relationships are now even more crucial, for both technical and fulfillment reasons. Ensuring their already very good aftermarket support would continue to be a key selling point in this new era, was a big reason for those changes too. Whether post JCB these changes all persisted I have no idea.

Who knows where they would have been had Sadiq Khan not taken the decision to favour short term savings and partnering with China (to whom London is an incredibly insignificant market) rather than backing Britain (that being a perfectly legitimate political motivation if there are sound economic reasons for doing so).

I know in that era the company was absolutely banking on the predictable revenues and production volumes of New Routemaster, as well as the technical experience, to smooth the effects of reorganizing the business to e sure it was a serious player in the next generation of motive power.

As ever, it's always a mystery why Optare can't crack the market, which can surely support at least three volume manufacturers. Last I heard it was as simple as kerb weight and thus fuel efficiency, accepting that this is also an issue for everyone. Fine margins.

 

[Goldfish62]

Who knows where they would have been had Sadiq Khan not taken the decision to favour short term savings and partnering with China (to whom London is an incredibly insignificant market) rather than backing Britain (that being a perfectly legitimate political motivation if there are sound economic reasons for doing so).

What on earth are you talking about?

I know people like to blame Khan for the most spurious reasons, but the implication that he dictates bus operator procurement policy is truly bizarre.

The fact is that when London started being electrified a few years ago BYD/ADL was the only realistic option, unless you wanted to go for Optare / Switch.

This is also why FirstGroup and Stagecoach invested heavily in BYD/ADL outside London, or did Sadiq Khan also dictate to them as well?

 

[PG]

(And how come the BZL and Wright Electroliner can claim so many orders when Optare/ Switch was there before them, but seem to struggle to get any orders?)

I suspect one factor is a lack of operator confidence in the ability of Optare/ Switch to deliver buses in an acceptable timeframe. This was discussed 3 years ago in this thread.Would you really want to be the next Reading Buses waiting years for your order to arrive?

They can accelerate much faster if set to do so - it's deliberately limited so as not to throw passengers down the bus.

I remember my first experience of the Leyland Lynx in the late eighties, being propelled down the aisle at a rate of knots as the driver pulled away - the acceleration was phenomenal! However given the change in driving standards, with drivers now instructed to wait until passengers are seated before moving off, do we really need to artificially limit the acceleration rate?

 

[Goldfish62]

I remember my first experience of the Leyland Lynx in the late eighties, being propelled down the aisle at a rate of knots as the driver pulled away - the acceleration was phenomenal!

I used to drive Lynxes. Absolute flyers.

However given the change in driving standards, with drivers now instructed to wait until passengers are seated before moving off, do we really need to artificially limit the acceleration rate?

Absolutely yes we do. As I say, I find nothing sloth-like about electric bus acceleration.

I suspect one factor is a lack of operator confidence in the ability of Optare/ Switch to deliver buses in an acceptable timeframe.

There, that's better.