Bus Reform in Liverpool City Region

[M28361M]

Liverpool City Region Mayor Steve Rotheram promised in his manifesto to reregulate the buses in the region, and it looks like the first step has been taken today. A notice has appeared on a well-hidden sub-page of the Merseytravel website today.

The election of a Metro Mayor for the Liverpool City Region, along with legislation called the Bus Services Act, gives the Liverpool City Region a number of different ways of delivering the best bus system for the region.

In April 2018, the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority asked Merseytravel to undertake formal assessments of two of these options:

• Enhanced Partnership
• Franchising

In September 2018, notices were published which begin this formal process, with the two options identified being assessed against a third option of retaining the Bus Alliance.

Nothing much on this page yet except the statutory notices published today, but will be interesting to see how this plays out, and how hard Arriva and Stagecoach will resist any attempts at franchising. Will OneBus be extending down the M62?

 

[carlberry]

Liverpool City Region Mayor Steve Rotheram promised in his manifesto to reregulate the buses in the region, and it looks like the first step has been taken today. A notice has appeared on a well-hidden sub-page of the Merseytravel website today.



Nothing much on this page yet except the statutory notices published today, but will be interesting to see how this plays out, and how hard Arriva and Stagecoach will resist any attempts at franchising. Will OneBus be extending down the M62?

This is the same Liverpool that encouraged bus use by slowing them all down by removing the majority of the bus lanes I assume!

 

[radamfi]

This is the same Liverpool that encouraged bus use by slowing them all down by removing the majority of the bus lanes I assume!

Although to be fair it was the city council (so the city "proper" rather than the region) that did that.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is the same Liverpool that encouraged bus use by slowing them all down by removing the majority of the bus lanes I assume!

Slightly odd given that the partnership has increased ridership by 16.2% since 2014 with plenty of investment from the big two.

 

[158756]

What sort of value for money would a franchising system deliver if there would only be two operators competing for most contracts?

 

[Megafuss]

What sort of value for money would a franchising system deliver if there would only be two operators competing for most contracts?

They would hope that other operators would show an interest. Until such mechanism is shown where it's easy for a new operator to come in, buy land for a depot and all the buses, then i am not sure it is viable. Incumbent operators will just move the buses to other operating companies and sell depot land to developers.

In some ways inthink it would be cheaper just to legsilate and allow councils to buy out bus operators.

 

[ivanhoe]

Slightly odd given that the partnership has increased ridership by 16.2% since 2014 with plenty of investment from the big two.

Quite. There’s the basis of a good partnership there already. The situation is different to Greater Manchester and Steve Rotherham needs to cultivate the current arrangements in a different way.

 

[Robertj21a]

They would hope that other operators would show an interest. Until such mechanism is shown where it's easy for a new operator to come in, buy land for a depot and all the buses, then i am not sure it is viable. Incumbent operators will just move the buses to other operating companies and sell depot land to developers.

In some ways inthink it would be cheaper just to legsilate and allow councils to buy out bus operators.

Does the council have sufficient ability to run bus companies themselves ? - there's probably a fair chance that very few senior staff would transfer. How much more do you think the local tax payers would be prepared to pay just to have the council run the buses instead of the commercial operators ?

 

[johnmoly]

I remember my dad saying there were over 50 bus companies that served Merseyside, this was about 25 years ago. Now, apart from the big two - Arriva and Stagecoach - I can only think of about another three. I can recall Liverpool Corporation buses being used about 50 years ago.

 

[carlberry]

I remember my dad saying there were over 50 bus companies that served Merseyside, this was about 25 years ago. Now, apart from the big two - Arriva and Stagecoach - I can only think of about another three. I can recall Liverpool Corporation buses being used about 50 years ago.

I'd say it's gone down to 49:
A1 Luxury Coaches Skelmersdale
A 2 B Travel Prenton
Advent Travel Ormskirk
A & J Taxis West Derby, Liverpool
AL's Coaches Birkenhead
Arriva Merseyside Liverpool
Arriva North West Liverpool
Avacab Leyland
Avon Buses Prenton
Blueline Coaches and Taxis Maghull
Castle Buses (Napier Point) Liverpool
Cavern City Tours Liverpool
Charlton Minicoaches Ormskirk
Cumfybus/Coach Southport
Eazibus Wallasey
East Midlands Trains Derby
Fairbrother Warrington
Finch Coaches Wigan
Glenvale Transport Liverpool
Halton Borough Transport Widnes
Hattons Travel St Helens
Hiltons Travel Newton le Willows
Hollywood Limos Aintree, Liverpool
Holmeswood Coaches Holmeswood
Huxley's Coaches Malpas
Huyton Transport (HTL) Glazebury
JP Travel Ormskirk
Kenmore Coaches Standish
Link Line Travel Southport
Liverpool City Sights Liverpool
Maghull Coaches Bootle
Mayne Warrington
MD Bus and Coach (Link Network) Warrington
Merseybus Rainford
Merseypride Runcorn
Nuttalls Coaches Longton, Warrington
Ogden (David) St Helens
Peoples Bus Liverpool
Povey Meols
Preston Bus Preston
Red Kite St Helens
Selwyns Runcorn
Harry Shaw Travel Binley
Diamond Bus North West (South Lancs Travel) Preston
Springfield Bus and Coach Higher Walton, Warrington
Together Travel Macclesfield
Tyrer (RS) Adlington, Chorley
Network Warrington (Warrington Transport) Warrington
Wigan Coachways Wigan

 

[fowler9]

I remember at the tail end of of my school days I could get home using Merseybus, Liverline, CMT, Amberline or Northwestern.

 

[Statto]

I'd say it's gone down to 49:
A1 Luxury Coaches Skelmersdale
A 2 B Travel Prenton
Advent Travel Ormskirk
A & J Taxis West Derby, Liverpool
AL's Coaches Birkenhead
Arriva Merseyside Liverpool
Arriva North West Liverpool
Avacab Leyland
Avon Buses Prenton
Blueline Coaches and Taxis Maghull
Castle Buses (Napier Point) Liverpool
Cavern City Tours Liverpool
Charlton Minicoaches Ormskirk
Cumfybus/Coach Southport
Eazibus Wallasey
East Midlands Trains Derby
Fairbrother Warrington
Finch Coaches Wigan
Glenvale Transport Liverpool
Halton Borough Transport Widnes
Hattons Travel St Helens
Hiltons Travel Newton le Willows
Hollywood Limos Aintree, Liverpool
Holmeswood Coaches Holmeswood
Huxley's Coaches Malpas
Huyton Transport (HTL) Glazebury
JP Travel Ormskirk
Kenmore Coaches Standish
Link Line Travel Southport
Liverpool City Sights Liverpool
Maghull Coaches Bootle
Mayne Warrington
MD Bus and Coach (Link Network) Warrington
Merseybus Rainford
Merseypride Runcorn
Nuttalls Coaches Longton, Warrington
Ogden (David) St Helens
Peoples Bus Liverpool
Povey Meols
Preston Bus Preston
Red Kite St Helens
Selwyns Runcorn
Harry Shaw Travel Binley
Diamond Bus North West (South Lancs Travel) Preston
Springfield Bus and Coach Higher Walton, Warrington
Together Travel Macclesfield
Tyrer (RS) Adlington, Chorley
Network Warrington (Warrington Transport) Warrington
Wigan Coachways Wigan

Just to add you had GM Buses which ran the 34 & 320 in Liverpool plus a couple of other routes in St Helens, before the bus war with MTL
Also East Midland ran the X67 Mansfield-Liverpool, which got cut back to Manchester-Chesterfield after Stagecoach brought East Midland
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Tiger_Alexander_TE_-_Flickr_-_bowlagoogly.jpg

 

[Megafuss]

Does the council have sufficient ability to run bus companies themselves ? - there's probably a fair chance that very few senior staff would transfer. How much more do you think the local tax payers would be prepared to pay just to have the council run the buses instead of the commercial operators ?

I am not saying I agree with my own suggestion but if a council pay a lump sum to buy a bus operator they could run it at arms length. Over time, profit margins could be reduced to enable cheaper fares or fares could be kept the same in order to use the "excess" profit to improve service levels. Not sure how viable that would actually be in Liverpool, but it's a suggestion.

Of course that would only work to keep things going day to day. New buses, facilties etc would need a large cash injection from somewhere....

 

[johnmoly]

I've never seen an East Midlands Trains bus before, not in Liverpool anyway.

 

[fowler9]

I've never seen an East Midlands Trains bus before, not in Liverpool anyway.

I suspect this refers to the bus company.

 

[Robertj21a]

I am not saying I agree with my own suggestion but if a council pay a lump sum to buy a bus operator they could run it at arms length. Over time, profit margins could be reduced to enable cheaper fares or fares could be kept the same in order to use the "excess" profit to improve service levels. Not sure how viable that would actually be in Liverpool, but it's a suggestion.

Of course that would only work to keep things going day to day. New buses, facilties etc would need a large cash injection from somewhere....

So it's a possibility if someone else puts enough money into all the big things that cost a lot...........

I wonder why nobody thought of that before

 

[Llandudno]

Just to add you had GM Buses which ran the 34 & 320 in Liverpool plus a couple of other routes in St Helens, before the bus war with MTL
Also East Midland ran the X67 Mansfield-Liverpool, which got cut back to Manchester-Chesterfield after Stagecoach brought East Midland
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Mansfield_^_District_39_A39_XHE_Leyland_Tiger_Alexander_TE_-_Flickr_-_bowlagoogly.jpg

Cracking photo of the ‘Lincman’ as it was called when it operated between Lincoln and Manchester.
The Lincoln to Mansfield section was the first to be axed, but for a time the service did operate to Liverpool, and I believe for a very brief period it continued to Rhyl!

The introduction of hourly through trains between Chesterfield and Manchester/Liverpool when the Hazel Grove chord opened finally finished the service off.

Peak District buses from Chesterfield are now very sparse, just an hourly daytime service to Bakewell, one positional journey to/from Buxton and one Friday bus to Castleton.

The Transpeak’ is a shadow of its former self, truncated to operate between Buxton and Derby only, with no buses after 1800. You wonder how Derbyshire CC has allowed this to happen considering it is along the route of quite a major former railway line?

 

[Robertj21a]

Cracking photo of the ‘Lincman’ as it was called when it operated between Lincoln and Manchester.
The Lincoln to Mansfield section was the first to be axed, but for a time the service did operate to Liverpool, and I believe for a very brief period it continued to Rhyl!

The introduction of hourly through trains between Chesterfield and Manchester/Liverpool when the Hazel Grove chord opened finally finished the service off.

Peak District buses from Chesterfield are now very sparse, just an hourly daytime service to Bakewell, one positional journey to/from Buxton and one Friday bus to Castleton.

The Transpeak’ is a shadow of its former self, truncated to operate between Buxton and Derby only, with no buses after 1800. You wonder how Derbyshire CC has allowed this to happen considering it is along the route of quite a major former railway line?

Derbyshire C C hasn't 'allowed this to happen', it's the lack of passengers that's done it. People can solve the problem for themselves by actually using the buses provided !!