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Busiest double tracked line

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ATW Alex 101

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hi what's the busiest section of double tracked line where it is one line one way and one line the other.

Roughly how much can a double line take in terms of trains per hour
 
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SS4

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Birmingham to Coventry?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No idea about how many tph it can take though
 

NSE

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Surely it'd be the Thameslink Corridor? Blackfriars to Kentish Town.
 

barrykas

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hi what's the busiest section of double tracked line where it is one line one way and one line the other.

Off the top of my head, I'd guess it'll be something like Drayton Park - Moorgate or Christian Street Junction - East Ham on c2c.
 

NSE

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Off the top of my head, I'd guess it'll be something like Drayton Park - Moorgate or Christian Street Junction - East Ham on c2c.

Drayton Park Moorgate is only 6tph each way, 12 in total. Birmingham-Coventry is 3 Virgin, 1 XC, 2 (is it 3 from Euston?) LM, and then from Birmingham International its plus 1 ATW and 1 LM stopper, which might even be half hourly. So I make that 16 (17?)tph from BIA to BHM. That already beats Moorgate.
I still think Thameslink might be the winner.

Unless you're counting tube, in which case its got to be Baker Street Junction to Liverpool Street.

Oh you have the two track stretch through Welwyn North on the ECML. I make that 5 EC, 6 FCC, so that 22tph combined. Plus you'll most probably get at least one single HT/GC working at least once an hour maybe two. So you're looking at maybe 23/24 tph.
 

chris89

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Section Between Birmingham New Street & Wolverhampton? Not a clue how many TPH though.

Chris
 

The Planner

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New St Wolves is 10tph in each direction, International to Stechford is 9 or 10 if the freight path is used. As for the maximum a line can take it is mainly down to headway, stopping pattern and speed of the trains. Theoretically a line with a 3 minute headway could take 20tph in each direction if they all did the same thing, would never happen though.
 
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Surrey Quays to Dalston Junction - For 1 hour its upto 16 trains per hour currently, and once the extension to Clapham opens up in December it will be 16 trains per hour for the duration of service
 

Eagle

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Birmingham-Coventry is 3 Virgin, 1 XC, 2 (is it 3 from Euston?) LM, and then from Birmingham International its plus 1 ATW and 1 LM stopper, which might even be half hourly. So I make that 16 (17?)tph from BIA to BHM.

The BHI stopper is only hourly, and BHM–EUS is 3tph, not 2tph (same in the other direction except one starts from Northampton). Total passenger services, 9tph e/w BHM to BHI, 7tph e/w BHI to COV. Not sure about freight (there's an hourly container train from Southampton but that usually goes via Bedworth).
 

ATW Alex 101

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Im doing a school project about improving better rail links to my school's local and I'm wondering if the merseyrail line from Chester to Liverpool will be able to take 6 extra trains an hour

and guys it's only a school project nothing serious so don't go mad at me

Edit: Sorry for getting shirty, it's just that from past experience on here people can disagree and the one time it happened I snapped back and it was me with the year long ban, hence my absence from early 2011 til early 2012
 
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Joseph_Locke

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Within earshot of trains passing the one and half
Im doing a school project about improving better rail links to my school's local and I'm wondering if the merseyrail line from Chester to Liverpool will be able to take 6 extra trains an hour

and guys it's only a school project nothing serious so don't go mad at me

Edit: Sorry for getting shirty, it's just that from past experience on here people can disagree and the one time it happened I snapped back and it was me with the year long ban, hence my absence from early 2011 til early 2012

Not any easy question to answer, as it will depend (as others have observed) on the headway, which depends in turn on permissible speed, signal spacing and number of aspects. Ultimately train length becomes important as the signal spacing gets so short the trains don't fit anymore. So, can't help without doing some digging in the Train Planning Rules (TPR).
 

87015

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Im doing a school project about improving better rail links to my school's local and I'm wondering if the merseyrail line from Chester to Liverpool will be able to take 6 extra trains an hour
Yes it damn well should be able to! The Merseyrail Loop is one of the simplest to get a high frequency through - Birkenhead is grade separated so its just a case of lining them up and running them round and out as there are absolutely no terminus conflicts to work around or variations to stopping pattern... Go on the NR website and search for rules of the plan, find the headway for the route (probably 3-4 minutes), add one minute for station time and that should be the available paths.
The London Underground works well with those kind of headways. Some of the lines in the centre have well over 20 tph e/w in the peaks.
I think c2c just hit 20 departures from Fenchurch St between 1700 and 1759
 

Metrailway

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30tph services are timetabled on the Central, Jubilee and Victoria Lines. I think 33tph will be timetabled for the Vic next year.

Of course back in the old days 40 tph was timetabled...
 

gnolife

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13 & 14 at Piccadilly?

Deansgate is better, because the Liverpool stoppers start at Oxford Road. Theres 10 TPH each way there
2 Liverpool via Warrington Ctl Stoppers (Oxford Road)
2 Liverpool via Warrington Express (Norwich, Scarborough)
1 Liverpool via Newton-le-Willows (Manchester Airport)
1 Llandudno via Newton-le-Willows (Piccadilly)
1 Blackpool North (Manchester AIrport)
1 Lancaster and beyond (Manchester Airport)
1 Preston (Hazel Grove)
1 Southport (Manchester Airport)
Total: 10 TPH per direction off-peak
 

John55

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Yes it damn well should be able to! The Merseyrail Loop is one of the simplest to get a high frequency through - Birkenhead is grade separated so its just a case of lining them up and running them round and out as there are absolutely no terminus conflicts to work around or variations to stopping pattern... Go on the NR website and search for rules of the plan, find the headway for the route (probably 3-4 minutes), add one minute for station time and that should be the available paths.

One might think that, but when the trains terminated and reversed at Central LL the service was more frequent and more reliable than it is today. Proof if ever it was needed that modern signalling and operations are pants!
 

Metrailway

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If the Northern line is split ISTR it'll be something like 32tph on the Charing Cross branch, and 28tph on the Bank branch.

A lot less on the Northern. It is about 20tph for both central branches would be more accurate. It is about 30tph south of Kennington. The low frequency in the central branches are the reason why there have been serious talk of splitting the Northern into two different operations.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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One might think that, but when the trains terminated and reversed at Central LL the service was more frequent and more reliable than it is today. Proof if ever it was needed that modern signalling and operations are pants!

Indeed. My 1959 LMR timetable shows a 10-minute service to each of West Kirby, New Brighton and Rock Ferry off-peak (18tph).
The Rock Ferry line doubled up to a 5-minute frequency in the peak (24tph).
Today's timetable has 14tph off-peak with 16tph in the peak.

I wouldn't want to go back to the dimly-lit dungeon of the old Central LL though, with its steep and dangerous stairs leading to the one narrow island platform!
 

jopsuk

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what about a section with express services? Chesunt-Broxbourne has to be a contender, four Stansted Express trains per hour whistling through at speed, plus two Cambridge-Liverpool Street, two Hertford East-Liverpool Street and two Bishops Stortford-Stratford stopping at both.
 

dk1

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Shenfield to Witham does pretty well especially taking all the peak 12-car trains along with against the flow freight.
 

greatkingrat

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Its only a short section but I think Metropolitan Jn - London Bridge is the winner. Off-peak you have 16tph Southeastern and 4tph FCC in each direction. In the peak there are 25 departures from Charing Cross between 1700-1759, with no FCCs.
 

krus_aragon

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Im doing a school project about improving better rail links to my school's local and I'm wondering if the merseyrail line from Chester to Liverpool will be able to take 6 extra trains an hour


The line from Chester to Birkenhead Central could certainly take extra trains, assuming some money were available to resignal it with reduced headways. Six extra services would take it up to 12tph each way, which is identical to, for example, Cardiff Queen Street to Central. But these services are straight through. If the driver had to change ends and reverse then you'd need to think about extra platforms in which to do so.

The most congested part of the Wirral route is, of course, the loop line, which has got services from West Kirby, New Brighton, and Ellesmere Port in addition to Chester. That's 14tph each way at Hamilton Square, and going around the single track loop. As some people have mentioned above, there are some examples of higher frequencies, but it will require even shorter headways, closer signalling, and also more rolling stock. Adding your extra six services and going to 20tph will mean a train going through the loop every three minutes, and that's approaching city subway frequencies. (At a glance the Bakerloo Line in London apparently barely breaks 20tph in the rush hour.)

You could also consider portion working to increase service frequency to Chester. There are already paths for six trains an hour coming as far south as Hooton, but two go to Ellesmere Port instead of Chester. If you had enough rolling stock, and perhaps some investment in signalling at Hooton, you could split trains there and serve both lines with only one path out of Liverpool. (The trouble with that is that having split you only have three carriages going to Chester. Is that enough for the number of passengers wanting to travel?)
 
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