Businessman has idea to create a Sheffield to Stocksbridge steam heritage line

[gtis]

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/shef...-city-1-9319089/amp?__twitter_impression=true

A new heritage railway service in Sheffield has moved a step closer after a businessman applied to buy the land needed.

David Breen recently unveiled proposals to revive part of the old Woodhead railway line which once ran between Sheffield and Manchester, and his plans appear to have caught the public imagination.

The South Yorkshire (Woodhead) Heritage Railway group he launched on Facebook now has more than 300 members, with many people keen to see the surviving tracks between Sheffield city centre and Stocksbridge carrying passengers again.

 

[tonysk14]

Oh FFS!

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I welcome this as it might, just might, shut up those reactionaries who go on endlessly about re-opening the Woodhead route.

 

[InterCity:125]

Do we trust the star?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Who wants to reopen the Woodhead route anyway? Its too curvy, might as well just build that Transpennine Tunnel, Transport for the North was on about, then re-open and extend the former Clayton West branch to Darton.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Who wants to reopen the Woodhead route anyway? Its too curvy, might as well just build that Transpennine Tunnel, Transport for the North was on about, then re-open and extend the former Clayton West branch to Darton.

You've joined only recently. You'll soon discover that a handful of regulars here are obsessive about re-opening the route and the tunnel in particular.

 

[6Gman]

What is actually being proposed?

A steam heritage service between Stockbridge and ... where?

A commuter service from where to where?

Locos and rolling stock? Staffing?

 

[Iskra]

This is not re-opening Woodhead, as some would like.

This is about re-using the current freight only branch from Sheffield to the steelworks at Stocksbridge for passenger trains.

This is not a new idea. There is already a group of people behind this. What is new, is the steam-hauled part.

Steam hauled is nice. But as a commercial venture, just using a DMU would in my opinion be much more successful as currently to get from Stocksbridge to Sheffield it's a bus followed by a tram, so a DMU would be competitive.

A certain Mr Dransfield, could probably make this happen if he wanted to at the new retail park he's just built right next to the railway opposite the current steelworks.

I assume the steelworks just need to give their permission and a halt-style platform be built (however, getting into a station at the Sheffield end may be more of a problem)? Obviously, there's probably a lot of paperwork too...

Apart from the Retail Park and access to nice walking routes there's not really much to draw tourists to Stocksbridge though, so I don't see it being viable as a tourist attraction.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Who wants to reopen the Woodhead route anyway? Its too curvy, might as well just build that Transpennine Tunnel, Transport for the North was on about, then re-open and extend the former Clayton West branch to Darton.

The gauge-changing station for through-running at Clayton West Junction (4'8" to 15") would be a sight to behold!

 

[deltic08]

Network Rail must not be allowed to sell off national assets that may be needed in the future. I suggest an annual peppercorn rent.

 

[tbtc]

Who wants to reopen the Woodhead route anyway? Its too curvy

I agree that Woodhead is a non-starter - the kind of "solution in need of a problem" that some of the nostalgists on this thread are fond of recycling at any opportunity.

The proposal in the Star looks to be just a case of a local "property developer' trying to drum up interest in investing in Stocksbridge and surrounding areas - if you can punt a positive tale of "steam trains" to a local journalist (especially during the quiet summer months) then there's a good chance they'll print it without asking too many questions - that should sell a few more "starter homes"...

 

[deltic08]

I agree that Woodhead is a non-starter - the kind of "solution in need of a problem" that some of the nostalgists on this thread are fond of recycling at any opportunity..

No more curvy than Borders rail where they have managed 90mph in many places. It is not nostalgia, it is reality that it could be faster than Hope Valley if connected to Midland station.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Do we trust the star?

Yes, it's a local newspaper, not the Daily Star.

 

[gtis]

Yes it could all be wishful thinking
But it would nice if it was to get started
Neil

 

[JayDee]

If the supertram reaches the site of the old Sheffield Victoria Station as has been proposed, then this could have potential legs. There were plans a while ago for a living history village out at Stockbridge as well. Looking at Google Maps there's certainly places where one could put in a half decent station near to the shopping centre.

 

[DunfordBridge]

I agree that Woodhead is a non-starter - the kind of "solution in need of a problem" that some of the nostalgists on this thread are fond of recycling at any opportunity.

The Hope Valley and Huddersfield routes are at the point of saturation. I think many commuters on the Leeds-Manchester corridor might have found the problem for you although to be honest, a reinstated route over Woodhead would be more useful to people in South Yorkshire rather than Leeds due to the pointwork, not to mention Penistone viaduct.

No more curvy than Borders rail where they have managed 90mph in many places. It is not nostalgia, it is reality that it could be faster than Hope Valley if connected to Midland station.

The route between Leeds and Manchester is not exactly straight and has it fastest point through Slaithwaite at 85mph.

 

[WestRiding]

Load of rubbish this proposal. If Stocksbridge is to get a rail service, it should be done by way of Tram Train, think of it as part 2 to to the Rotherham scheme.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Load of rubbish this proposal. If Stocksbridge is to get a rail service, it should be done by way of Tram Train, think of it as part 2 to to the Rotherham scheme.

^ This. Precisely. There should even be enough room for catenary without civil engineering.

 

[DunfordBridge]

I welcome this as it might, just might, shut up those reactionaries who go on endlessly about re-opening the Woodhead route.

I am almost inclined to say it was somewhat myopic to close the line down in the eighties. It would certainly have come in very useful now. I think it would be very useful to have a service from Nottingham - Sheffield - Meadowhall - Barnsley - Penistone - Guide Bridge - Manchester Piccadilly. Have Northern not just binned the service from Leeds - Barnsley - Nottingham covering much of the above route?

Who wants to reopen the Woodhead route anyway? Its too curvy, might as well just build that Transpennine Tunnel, Transport for the North was on about, then re-open and extend the former Clayton West branch to Darton.

I really do not want to pay extortionate train fares to spend half of the journey in a tunnel.

Is it actually possible to construct a rail link beyond Clayton West to Darton due to the topography of the land? I only went by train once to Clayton West as a kid whilst it was open. Had to catch the bus for the rest of the way. Clayton West was a spur off the line between Penistone and Huddersfield. There were three spurs altogether including one to Holmfirth and I imagined that they followed the path of the valleys.

Load of rubbish this proposal. If Stocksbridge is to get a rail service, it should be done by way of Tram Train, think of it as part 2 to to the Rotherham scheme.

The powers that be have not exactly fast-tracked this project. When do you think they would get round to instating a tram-train link on the other direction, almost never? Somehow, I have got more faith in this David Breen character to provide a viable service.

 

[Journeyman]

I welcome this as it might, just might, shut up those reactionaries who go on endlessly about re-opening the Woodhead route.

I hope so - the case for reopening Woodhead is awful, it's extremely tricky to reconnect to the network at the Sheffield end and the Manchester end is now extremely congested.

It's only nostalgia for the 76s that makes people so obsessed with it. If it had stayed open, they'd have been long gone by now anyway.

 

[mushroomchow]

It could work - what remains of the GCR station site is expansive enough to develop something, and it's close to the rather pleasant Victoria Quays. At the Sheffield end, it could be a real success on a side of the city with relatively little going for it around Wicker, shoehorned as it is between the city centre and Meadowhall.

The folks in Stocksbridge don't need a heritage line however. They need an alternative to the rather crap bus / tram service they currently have, as noted by others here.

And no, there's no prospect of the Woodhead Route reopening in full except for the unlikely scenario of HS3 going ahead.

 

[Iskra]

Load of rubbish this proposal. If Stocksbridge is to get a rail service, it should be done by way of Tram Train, think of it as part 2 to to the Rotherham scheme.

^ This. Precisely. There should even be enough room for catenary without civil engineering.

You could use a cast-off DMU and build a crude platform relatively cheaply. This means it has a bit of a business case.

When you start electrifying lines, the cost goes through the roof to the point there is no business case. It also needs to be pointed out that the current freight branch from the Woodhead line to Stocksbridge has not previously been electrified (to my knowledge at least), so we have no assurances that it's an easy job to put catenary in place.

 

[tbtc]

No more curvy than Borders rail where they have managed 90mph in many places. It is not nostalgia, it is reality that it could be faster than Hope Valley if connected to Midland station.

Okay, if it's not nostalgia then how do you have services from central Sheffield to central Manchester that are faster than the current Hope Valley services (i.e. under fifty minutes)?

Bearing in mind the need to squeeze services onto the tediously slow line west of Dinting, the need to link to Sheffield Midland etc etc (ignoring the outrage about closing the Transpennine Trail and the feasibility of another tunnel at Woodhead and all of the civil engineering stuff)

The Hope Valley and Huddersfield routes are at the point of saturation. I think many commuters on the Leeds-Manchester corridor might have found the problem for you although to be honest, a reinstated route over Woodhead would be more useful to people in South Yorkshire rather than Leeds due to the pointwork, not to mention Penistone viaduct

Leeds - Manchester capacity is being improved with five/six coach trains on most services (replacing three coach services).

The awkward truth for some on this thread is that it'd be quite cheap to improve Hope Valley capacity (current trains are generally two coach Northern, three coach TPE and up to four coaches on EMT) than carry out a feasibility study into re-opening Woodhead.

We can't complain about "saturation" in the Hope Valley when running fun-sized Sprinters through it.

Can you imagine that conversation in the Corridors Of Power?

• 
  "We need hundreds of millions of pounds to increase capacity between Sheffield and Manchester"
• "What about the existing routes?"
• "Oh, they are saturated"
• "Ah, you're up to line capacity, unable to squeeze more trains in, like the Network South East routes where two hundred metre long EMUs can't be extended any further?"
• "No, most services are just two or three coaches long, and Sheffield/ Stockport/ Piccadilly can easily accommodate eight coach trains, but we want to re-open a line that ceased to have much use once the heavy freight died Because Nostalgia"

I am almost inclined to say it was somewhat myopic to close the line down in the eighties. It would certainly have come in very useful now

It mainly existed to get freight over the Pennines - e.g. coal and steel from Tinsley and Wath - when that market started drying up, the railway became a relatively luxury.

It'd have been "useful" in the way that an occasional diversionary route is useful, but we've much bigger things to worry about investing in.

I think it would be very useful to have a service from Nottingham - Sheffield - Meadowhall - Barnsley - Penistone - Guide Bridge - Manchester Piccadilly. Have Northern not just binned the service from Leeds - Barnsley - Nottingham covering much of the above route?

Northern still run Leeds - Kirkgate - Barnsley - Sheffield - Nottingham every hour (when they get their two/three coach 195s the service will run via Westgate instead (and save maybe fifteen minutes off the journey time).

(and if you are re-opening the line through Deepcar but still sending Sheffield - Penistone services via Barnsley then that begs the question of why we need to re-open the Deepcar line?)

I really do not want to pay extortionate train fares to spend half of the journey in a tunnel

Most people just want a fast/ safe/ cheap/ reliable train service - they will be too busy looking at their phones or reading a book to worry about tunnels.

I hope so - the case for reopening Woodhead is awful, it's extremely tricky to reconnect to the network at the Sheffield end and the Manchester end is now extremely congested.

It's only nostalgia for the 76s that makes people so obsessed with it. If it had stayed open, they'd have been long gone by now anyway.

Agreed.

You put it better than me.

It could work - what remains of the GCR station site is expansive enough to develop something, and it's close to the rather pleasant Victoria Quays. At the Sheffield end, it could be a real success on a side of the city with relatively little going for it around Wicker, shoehorned as it is between the city centre and Meadowhall

Victoria Quays is indeed rather pleasant. I was there only this morning.

But the gravity of Sheffield City Centre has moved south/west - the Moor is busy, Waingate is dying - the fact that Wicker has "relatively little going for it" is a clue to the fact that it's a long way from where people actually want to be - a station there wouldn't connect with existing train/tram services - it's up on a viaduct high above any bus services (have you seen the steepness of the disused steps alongside the arches?) - it's a non-starter for a station location at the Sheffield end of the route.

 

[Goldie]

^ This. Precisely. There should even be enough room for catenary without civil engineering.

Another vote for a tram train extension to Stocksbridge here. The whole stretch of the Don Valley betwen Sheffield City Centre and Stocksbridge has obvious potential both as a leisure destination and as a place to live which is within easy commuting distance of the city, but surrounded by awesome Pennine scenery. But it needs a fast, reliable transport link wiht the city to make it fly.

 

[mushroomchow]

Victoria Quays is indeed rather pleasant. I was there only this morning.

But the gravity of Sheffield City Centre has moved south/west - the Moor is busy, Waingate is dying - the fact that Wicker has "relatively little going for it" is a clue to the fact that it's a long way from where people actually want to be - a station there wouldn't connect with existing train/tram services - it's up on a viaduct high above any bus services (have you seen the steepness of the disused steps alongside the arches?) - it's a non-starter for a station location at the Sheffield end of the route.

Fair points, but I can see regeneration focus turning towards that side of the centre in fairly short order now most of the Moor has been tarted up and London Road has had it's boost from the "Chinatown" build. There's the Castle Market redevelopment for starters to come in the near future, which is long overdue. It's a horrible bit of the city but I doubt they're just going to let it rot indefinitely, and I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's that far from the city centre - it's certainly no longer a walk to the Cathedral from the old Central station than from the Midland. The problem is, instead of a nice walk up through the university, Crucible and Winter Gardens, you're walking along gum-encrusted streets past chain smokers and half-derelict buildings.

On a personal level, as a student at Sheffield Hallam who worked at the Sainsbury's on Penistone Road, a rail service would have been useful assuming there was a station nearby to where the line crosses. Trams dropped me too far from the store to be convenient and the bus was unreliable at best. What would have put me off would have been having to walk through that pretty seedy area of town to catch a train - even as a (relatively) fit twentysomething male I wouldn't want to be alone there after dark.

I think that ultimately the proof of concept is in how well-received it would be by those communities in Hillsborough and Stocksbridge, as they're the ones it would be for. A steam railway wouldn't really make their lives more convenient or improve social mobility, though I imagine it would boost Stocksbridge itself somewhat as a visitor attraction in its own right.

The problem is that nowadays nobody in Sheffield seems to know how to deliver a paper, let alone a major transport project - as evidenced by the shocking state of some of the roads and, of course, the Rotherham tram-train project. For those reasons, I fully expect it to remain a pipedream unless the steelworks closes and campaigning steps up significantly as a result.

 

[Goldie]

On a personal level, as a student at Sheffield Hallam who worked at the Sainsbury's on Penistone Road, a rail service would have been useful assuming there was a station nearby to where the line crosses. Trams dropped me too far from the store to be convenient and the bus was unreliable at best. What would have put me off would have been having to walk through that pretty seedy area of town to catch a train - even as a (relatively) fit twentysomething male I wouldn't want to be alone there after dark.

The very sorry looking remains of Wadsley Bridge station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadsley_Bridge_railway_station are on the same side of the A61 as Sainsbury's, right where the railway crosses the road, and there are a few good reasons to look at re-opening: the A61 is one of the main routes into the city from the North, so a proper park and ride should do well; there's plenty of relatively high density housing close by; and there's Hillsborough stadium an easy walk away too.

 

[YorkshireBear]

As i have spent most of my life in Sheffield with family scattered across North Sheffield I have always thought that the line could do well with a few well placed stations.

However, I maintain that it needs to be combined with improvements around the Victoria area to make it work. Maybe a simple form of the railway might help bring this around with future improvements as part of the regeneration. Personally I always wondered if a simple two platform station at Victoria with then a new station at Nunnery Square to interchange with the tram. All train tickets valid from Nunnery Square to say University, or at least tickets available for say a £1 supplement.

Kelham Island is seeing huge regeneration, don't count the wicker area out just yet. I certainly wouldn't rule out the railway returning within the next 10 years.

 

[Goldie]

As i have spent most of my life in Sheffield with family scattered across North Sheffield I have always thought that the line could do well with a few well placed stations.

However, I maintain that it needs to be combined with improvements around the Victoria area to make it work. Maybe a simple form of the railway might help bring this around with future improvements as part of the regeneration. Personally I always wondered if a simple two platform station at Victoria with then a new station at Nunnery Square to interchange with the tram. All train tickets valid from Nunnery Square to say University, or at least tickets available for say a £1 supplement.

Kelham Island is seeing huge regeneration, don't count the wicker area out just yet. I certainly wouldn't rule out the railway returning within the next 10 years.

Yes to all that. A terminus at Stocksbridge, and then stops at Oughtibridge, Wadsley Bridge and Victoria (with a possible extra stop at Neepsend / Ski Village as that area develops) before joining the tram network at Nunnery sounds about right. I'd guess that a tram train route from Stocksbridge to Meadowhall would have decent loadings straight out of the box. One that reverses at Nunnery to serve the station or the city centre might have to work harder to earn its loadings, as the route is a bit convoluted.

 

[mushroomchow]

The very sorry looking remains of Wadsley Bridge station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadsley_Bridge_railway_station are on the same side of the A61 as Sainsbury's, right where the railway crosses the road, and there are a few good reasons to look at re-opening: the A61 is one of the main routes into the city from the North, so a proper park and ride should do well; there's plenty of relatively high density housing close by; and there's Hillsborough stadium an easy walk away too.

Just picked it up on Google Maps - would have been the perfect location for my commute!

 

[Steelman79]

The passenger service shut for a reason and it will never reopen.
Anybody who says that the transport links in the valley could be improved by this scheme is dreaming.
And yes I do live in the centre of the proposals.