I have noticed in last few days, that Bustimes.org, is not showing the National Express live map, And where their coaches are etc, so is this permanent? And what is the reason behind this? I found this feature interesting and useful, so be a shame if it is permanently withdrawn.
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BusTimes.Org
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Sometimes other operators will drop off the map for a few days and then reappear.
As I understand it, Bustimes is a two-levels removed "Garbage In, Garbage Out" website. Not only does it rely on the data feed being available, it also requires the data feed and whatever tracking data it requires behind the scenes (the "garbage") to be up to date. Just as with traveline, for example, if the operator codes their input incorrectly, then it can only be output incorrectly, e.g. in cases where every journey is repeated with the same timetable for schooldays and non-schooldays. It also doesn't have control over any of the data it uses - it's not as though it's an incorrect price they can manually override at a till and have changed later.
Presumably, one of the bits of information it needs to produce tracking has temporarily expired, and it will pick up again when a new set has been added.
NatEx do have their own tracker, of course, including a map, if you're looking for a particular service. I have checked both against each other at times, and they appear to match (presumably because the background data is the same source!).
Presumably, one of the bits of information it needs to produce tracking has temporarily expired, and it will pick up again when a new set has been added.
NatEx do have their own tracker, of course, including a map, if you're looking for a particular service. I have checked both against each other at times, and they appear to match (presumably because the background data is the same source!).
MaidaVale
Member
Various operators are known to appear and disappear from bustimes.org fairly regularly, sometimes being just a small depot from a certain operator and others being the vanishing of all vehicles in London...
It's because bustimes uses a load of APIs, and one chain breaks the bike.
It's because bustimes uses a load of APIs, and one chain breaks the bike.
I've started using bustimes.org in Exeter and so far I've been able to follow the bus I'm waiting for on the map until it appears round the corner. One of the Stagecoach managers even told me he used it in preference to the company's own app! What is everyone's experience of it? I know it's not a bus industry website just as Real Time Trains is not a rail industry site. From what has been written above, there are clearly limitations with the data.
fgwrich
Established Member
Funny enough I use it in a similar manner now - I can either walk into work now or catch the local Stagecoach Bus, using Bustimes is quite handy to know if it's on time and where along the route it is (my local route is basically a big loop). It's also a lot more reliable than whatever feeds the Google app, as I found out yesterday morning while waiting for a bus which had obviously been cancelled - contrary to the information on both Google, Stagecoach's own app and Stagecoach South's Twitter feed.
Flange Squeal
Established Member
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- 17 Jul 2012
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- 1,301
I’m a big fan of it. Sure, it’s not always perfect and is only as good as the information being fed into it, but being able to see multiple operators and routes on one map is a big advantage. A journey I semi-regularly make has a choice of three operators over three different routes from A to B, so being able to see all three operators on one screen helps me decide if I should jump on the next one that comes or if the faster of the three routes is just behind and worth waiting for. The current £2 single fare deal means I don’t have to factor in being tied to whichever operator for ticket validity for my return trip as I was before.
Falcon1200
Established Member
I'm a big fan of it too! Given that most bus stops I use have no passenger information systems whatsoever, I use it to ensure that the bus I want to catch is actually coming.
higthomas
Member
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- 27 Nov 2012
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- 1,137
I'm a big fan. By a country mile the best place to get bus timetables, maps and running information. Very much better than many of the big players websites.
I was also interested to see https://thebiglemon.com/12-2/ which is a bus company embedding bustimes.org's map into their own website.
I was also interested to see https://thebiglemon.com/12-2/ which is a bus company embedding bustimes.org's map into their own website.
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I think BusTimes is really useful. Of course it has its limitations. Sometimes buses just don't track, more often they track as the wrong vehicle (doesn't worry me too much). If the timetable data is wrong then you can get very some odd results. But it is the best source of timetable information, most usable for finding information and planning trips etc, although I would always check the bus company's own website before finalising any plans. The ability to search on a particular place to get all services from there, plus the details of exactly where different routes stop, with a link to maps and StreetView is really helpful. The maps by company and the maps generally are useful. On top of that the tracking of buses is really useful provided you accept the limitations and that some information is not always correct or complete. While actually out on the road the live tracking comes into its own as it helps make decisions on whether to get a particular bus or wait for the next one, whether they are running at all / on time / late and what type of bus it is. You just have to accept that possibly a bus tracks but it running out of service but there are often clues. Also you can look at particular journeys from previous days and see whether they ran on time and what their previous journeys were to get an idea (not guaranteed) of what may happen.
Here's a wonderful example of where it didn't work for me in the Manchester area in December - posted on the Trips thread, I was coming from Mossley on the First 350:
Now here I was deceived by relying on BusTimes. I know this can happen and accept the risks of using it and here it was a case of ‘garbage in garbage out’. I intended to leave the 350 at Delph and continue on to Oldham using the Nexus Move 356 via Denshaw. But checking on BusTimes the map of the 356 and the vehicle check showed only two buses out (should be three) and my intended one missing. I did not check the map of all Nexus Move vehicles. So I decided that I didn’t fancy waiting half an hour at Delph for a bus that might well not turn up – Delph is an attractive village but it was cold, I was still cold, I had been there before and not much appeared to be open as I stayed on the 350 round the loop at Carrcote. So I decided to stay on the 350 and continue to Oldham that way. Much later in the day I looked again at the 356 on Nexus Move to see what had happened. It showed bus 140 starting out on the 356 at Delph at 10.14 on the journey I intended to take. So I looked to see what the bus had done earlier in the day. It showed it out on the 184 going to Marsden, Oldham and Marsden. Odd I thought, the 184 only runs in the evening, the daytime service is with First. So I looked at the maps of these journeys – they were the missing 356 journeys, nowhere near Marsden! This bus had been out on the 184 the previous evening so I assume the morning’s driver hadn’t changed the route on the ticket machine back from 184 to 356 so had fed rubbish information to BusTimes while actually carrying out all the correct journeys. I think that if I had looked at the map of all Nexus Move vehicles at the time I would have picked this up – but I didn’t.
But for the whole of the rest of the day BusTimes was very useful. For example I took an earlier 163 from Middleton to Bury than planned because I could see the next one was late. I actually left this at Heywood as I could see a 471 was coming soon after. At Salford I knew when 100s were coming towards Eccles, at Patricroft I could see what was coming to move on to the Trafford Centre.
Here's a wonderful example of where it didn't work for me in the Manchester area in December - posted on the Trips thread, I was coming from Mossley on the First 350:
Now here I was deceived by relying on BusTimes. I know this can happen and accept the risks of using it and here it was a case of ‘garbage in garbage out’. I intended to leave the 350 at Delph and continue on to Oldham using the Nexus Move 356 via Denshaw. But checking on BusTimes the map of the 356 and the vehicle check showed only two buses out (should be three) and my intended one missing. I did not check the map of all Nexus Move vehicles. So I decided that I didn’t fancy waiting half an hour at Delph for a bus that might well not turn up – Delph is an attractive village but it was cold, I was still cold, I had been there before and not much appeared to be open as I stayed on the 350 round the loop at Carrcote. So I decided to stay on the 350 and continue to Oldham that way. Much later in the day I looked again at the 356 on Nexus Move to see what had happened. It showed bus 140 starting out on the 356 at Delph at 10.14 on the journey I intended to take. So I looked to see what the bus had done earlier in the day. It showed it out on the 184 going to Marsden, Oldham and Marsden. Odd I thought, the 184 only runs in the evening, the daytime service is with First. So I looked at the maps of these journeys – they were the missing 356 journeys, nowhere near Marsden! This bus had been out on the 184 the previous evening so I assume the morning’s driver hadn’t changed the route on the ticket machine back from 184 to 356 so had fed rubbish information to BusTimes while actually carrying out all the correct journeys. I think that if I had looked at the map of all Nexus Move vehicles at the time I would have picked this up – but I didn’t.
But for the whole of the rest of the day BusTimes was very useful. For example I took an earlier 163 from Middleton to Bury than planned because I could see the next one was late. I actually left this at Heywood as I could see a 471 was coming soon after. At Salford I knew when 100s were coming towards Eccles, at Patricroft I could see what was coming to move on to the Trafford Centre.
Personally I find it very useful for the map to see where buses are and I do lake the fleet lists as well. Especially with cancellations and for this week diversions off route which is causing some large delays on my local route.
David Burrows
Member
- Joined
- 1 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 94
Brilliant site. Very useful to check whether the intended bus is actually running on its outward journey so that one doesn't go to catch the return trip if it isn't running.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've used far more unfamiliar bus routes than I would have done without it. Great little site.
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I quite like how buses track even when out of service. Let's you keep track of where they are. Although, with Stagecoach south west, 15782 keeps jumping around on the tracker dispite it being camped up inside the depot whilst being converted into an open top. Also, in 2020, 36232 was tracking constantly for months even though it was destroyed in a fire. They forgot to turn the ticket machine off
(apologies for the distinct lack of punctuation in this post.)
(apologies for the distinct lack of punctuation in this post.)
WY Bus Spotter
Member
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- 9 Aug 2017
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- 214
I swear by it. It has everything I need as an enthusiast, or passenger. It offers me far more information than any operator's app, and I often find the user interface easier to navigate.
riceuten
Member
- Joined
- 23 May 2018
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- 558
It's not 100% reliable, but triangulating it with Non-Arriva's joke of an app, usually means I can get where I need to be, without too much standing around in the cold. People at the bus stop seem to think I have magic powers of divination !
The Arriva "App" doesn't usually show cancelled buses (if at all) until 10-15 minutes after the bus has departed. It frequently shows buses as running even when they've been cancelled, though you can normally tell because, according to the app, it's running completely to time at all bus stops. I've had it a few times when bustimes.org has shown a bus as not running when it has actually run (probably a faulty ticket machine). Yesterday, going into Stevenage, Arriva's app (and the real time display at the bus stop) showed a bus as being 7 minutes away (which is usually when you know it's actually running) which then suddenly disappeared - it wasn't showing on bustimes.org ! It then showed cancelled on the Arriva App I caught the bus in the opposite direction (circular route) which was showing on both. We left quite a few people at the other bus stop, I'd gone for this bus, because there were (theoretically) 2 buses in opposite directions within 2 mins of each other, so I figured at least one of them might run, and I was lucky.
Given we have between 40%-50% of buses cancelled locally, an app like this is vital.
The Arriva "App" doesn't usually show cancelled buses (if at all) until 10-15 minutes after the bus has departed. It frequently shows buses as running even when they've been cancelled, though you can normally tell because, according to the app, it's running completely to time at all bus stops. I've had it a few times when bustimes.org has shown a bus as not running when it has actually run (probably a faulty ticket machine). Yesterday, going into Stevenage, Arriva's app (and the real time display at the bus stop) showed a bus as being 7 minutes away (which is usually when you know it's actually running) which then suddenly disappeared - it wasn't showing on bustimes.org ! It then showed cancelled on the Arriva App I caught the bus in the opposite direction (circular route) which was showing on both. We left quite a few people at the other bus stop, I'd gone for this bus, because there were (theoretically) 2 buses in opposite directions within 2 mins of each other, so I figured at least one of them might run, and I was lucky.
Given we have between 40%-50% of buses cancelled locally, an app like this is vital.
This is precisely what I do - it's complicated here by the previously-run routes often differing from mine, so I normally check what the pattern of service was the previous day (or previous week) and can suss out that my bus is presently delayed on its previous rounder
tbtc
Veteran Member
Brilliant site.
The main problems with it are out of their hands (ticket machines not working at an operator so it looks like there’s a gap in service, but I suppose that it’s better to not show buses which are running than to show buses running which aren’t, if that makes sense)
It’s fascinating to me to find out how complicated some inter working is, some marginal uses of resources, the thought process that goes into some diagrams…
Bus times highlights things like School services where one bus does multiple routes … for example here in Sheffield, one bus (https://bustimes.org/vehicles/fsyo-37490?date=2023-01-19# ) provides the Norton Lees service 723 arriving at that school for eight o’clock and then runs light to the University area to provide the 751 to Tapton school for nine… then at three o’clock the same vehicle is at Bradfield school for a service to Stannington before running light to Notre Dam for its fourth School service of the day (to Middlewood) … i doubt that the schools stagger their start/finish times specifically to make bus services cheaper to run but it’s pleasing that one vehicle can serve four different schools in the same day
One problem is that they don’t always show coordinated services on the same corridor, but it can be difficult for a “neutral” organisation to decide which of the thousands of routes compliment each other sufficiently to warrant being shown together… but at the same time there are problems with the data because the site sees different routes as the same because they fall under the same overall company, e.g. the evening journeys on the Stagecoach X59 through Fife are nothing to do with the all day route from Dundee to Perth (in my mind one is Fife Scottish, the other is Strathtay) but it all comes under Stagecoach East Scotland nowadays so Bustimes tries to accommodate them on the same page - https://bustimes.org/services/59-dundee-blairgowrie#map
It’s certainly more user friendly for casual passengers than downloading several apps for multiple operators and switching between them all to find your next service (of course “in Germany everything would be perfect and the fact that we need to have multiple Apps is testimony to the failure of deregulation and English exceptionalism” etc)
The main problems with it are out of their hands (ticket machines not working at an operator so it looks like there’s a gap in service, but I suppose that it’s better to not show buses which are running than to show buses running which aren’t, if that makes sense)
It’s fascinating to me to find out how complicated some inter working is, some marginal uses of resources, the thought process that goes into some diagrams…
Bus times highlights things like School services where one bus does multiple routes … for example here in Sheffield, one bus (https://bustimes.org/vehicles/fsyo-37490?date=2023-01-19# ) provides the Norton Lees service 723 arriving at that school for eight o’clock and then runs light to the University area to provide the 751 to Tapton school for nine… then at three o’clock the same vehicle is at Bradfield school for a service to Stannington before running light to Notre Dam for its fourth School service of the day (to Middlewood) … i doubt that the schools stagger their start/finish times specifically to make bus services cheaper to run but it’s pleasing that one vehicle can serve four different schools in the same day
One problem is that they don’t always show coordinated services on the same corridor, but it can be difficult for a “neutral” organisation to decide which of the thousands of routes compliment each other sufficiently to warrant being shown together… but at the same time there are problems with the data because the site sees different routes as the same because they fall under the same overall company, e.g. the evening journeys on the Stagecoach X59 through Fife are nothing to do with the all day route from Dundee to Perth (in my mind one is Fife Scottish, the other is Strathtay) but it all comes under Stagecoach East Scotland nowadays so Bustimes tries to accommodate them on the same page - https://bustimes.org/services/59-dundee-blairgowrie#map
It’s certainly more user friendly for casual passengers than downloading several apps for multiple operators and switching between them all to find your next service (of course “in Germany everything would be perfect and the fact that we need to have multiple Apps is testimony to the failure of deregulation and English exceptionalism” etc)
Baxenden Bank
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Oct 2013
- Messages
- 4,056
I use it, the key issue being that the data can sometimes be delayed, so the position of the bus as shown on screen, at the point I need to leave the house to catch it, is only good if the data is very recent. If I don't spot the line 'last reported five minutes ago' I miss the bus! Not a fault of the system, just something to remember to check. As stated by others, useful to know if the outward bus is on time when you know the same bus is returning and you will be catching it - with a bit of personal interpretation re making up time and turnaround times at the terminus.
I tell people it's my personal satellite link tracking the buses.
I've even seen TfGM Supervisors using it in the past to show a waiting passenger in Wythenshawe Bus Station what time their bus was due and where it probably was.
The only problem I have with BusTimes is the online tracking doesn't actually map a vehicle properly.
The only problem I have with BusTimes is the online tracking doesn't actually map a vehicle properly.
riceuten
Member
- Joined
- 23 May 2018
- Messages
- 558
Neither does the Non-Arriva app, to be fair. It's just an estimation - or in Arriva's case, often complete fiction.
Geordie driver
Member
I love it, I can see my bus has departed the terminus and know I have about 10 minutes to be at the bus stop.
DaventryRabbit
Member
Totally agree with all the positive comments
Always check it when waiting at a stop so have some advance warning if its not going to turn up
Always check it when waiting at a stop so have some advance warning if its not going to turn up
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Im not a big bus user but this site is bloomin marvellous all credit to those that have built it and support it as its very useful across the whole country.
TR673
Member
Has anybody else come across an issue recently where the Bustimes live map will stop updating if you're not actively looking at it? For example if I look at the map, then look at something else for 10 minutes, and then return to the Bustimes map, it will still be stuck showing the positions of vehicles from 10 minutes ago and won't update until I refresh the page.
Particularly annoying when on a mobile phone as even if I have the map open, it'll stop updating if the screen goes off, and be stuck like that once I turn the screen back on.
Particularly annoying when on a mobile phone as even if I have the map open, it'll stop updating if the screen goes off, and be stuck like that once I turn the screen back on.
How to you stop bustimes from showing rail and TfL stations ? All I see when "nearest " is selected are train stations upto several miles away , not a single bus stop . Journey preferences set to bus and coach only . I live about 10 miles north of Watford - so just outside the TfL bus area.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Are you sure you are using Bustimes as there is no 'journey preference' options and nor is there a 'nearest' option.
Until my phone learnt otherwise (!) a search for bustimes would come up with Bus Times London (which is, apparently, 'the ultimate travel app') as an early suggestion. (My emphasis)
Possibly this is what the poster is using in #28 (I live even further from the London travel zone).