BusTimes.Org

[Andy Pacer]

One of my pet hates is people changing liveries when buses have allegedly gone in for repaint, when bustimes.org explicitally states "Wait until the bus has been repainted (not in the paint shop or awaiting repaint) before updating it here"

 

[pokemonsuper9]

One of my pet hates is people changing liveries when buses have allegedly gone in for repaint, when bustimes.org explicitally states "Wait until the bus has been repainted (not in the paint shop or awaiting repaint) before updating it here"

What if someone in the paint shop updates it bit by bit as they recolour it? (which I doubt would be done since it's that dumb but still)
It's more accurate and represents the current livery.

 

[Andy Pacer]

What if someone in the paint shop updates it bit by bit as they recolour it? (which I doubt would be done since it's that dumb but still)
It's more accurate and represents the current livery.

I think its perfectly fine for enthusiasts to update the livery, but wait until it's seen for real out on the road rather than going by chinese whispers.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

One of my pet hates is people changing liveries when buses have allegedly gone in for repaint, when bustimes.org explicitally states "Wait until the bus has been repainted (not in the paint shop or awaiting repaint) before updating it here"

That is what I meant by 'turf war'. Some people HAVE to be the first with the news, so an update goes from 'leaving the paint shop' (with picture evidence of the new livery), to 'entered the paint shop', to 'allocated for repainting', to 'someone suggested it needed a repaint'. The same for withdrawals, re-allocations etc. It's no different with the train threads on this forum where it gets pretty difficult to know what is actually happening, what someone thinks ought to happen, or what could happen, perhaps, maybe, whenever.

 

[Andyh82]

One of my pet hates is people changing liveries when buses have allegedly gone in for repaint, when bustimes.org explicitally states "Wait until the bus has been repainted (not in the paint shop or awaiting repaint) before updating it here"

Indeed, there is far too much jumping the gun on there and trying to be first,

For example a significant number of the Merc/Mellors are moving from Rosso to Keighley Bus - on BusTimes they’ve all been marked as repainted in Keighley livery, this is clearly not the case yet, most haven’t tracked for about a month and it’s basically guessing what livery they will be in

Often looking at the vehicle histories you can tell there are arguments going on as buses change back and forth between two statuses whether that is withdrawn yes/no, depot allocations or liveries.

Deleting buses as withdrawn two seconds after getting wind of an accident is another example.

 

[Highland050261]

Its hard to keep it right; I look after Stagecoach Highlands & Scottish Citylink pages and the amount of vandalism we get is unreal.

 

[father_jack]

Is it me or are no First vehicles showing anywhere in the country ?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Is it me or are no First vehicles showing anywhere in the country ?

It's the main system that's gone down, not just First.
Ones that use other systems are still up, which is why Stagecoach is visible.

This just happens sometimes

 

[mic]

They are showing again now. I also noticed that over the last week they have been slow to update again. This looks as if it's any firm with Ticketer, as Stagecoach were tracking as normal.

 

[AY1975]

Funny enough I use it in a similar manner now - I can either walk into work now or catch the local Stagecoach Bus, using Bustimes is quite handy to know if it's on time and where along the route it is (my local route is basically a big loop). It's also a lot more reliable than whatever feeds the Google app, as I found out yesterday morning while waiting for a bus which had obviously been cancelled - contrary to the information on both Google, Stagecoach's own app and Stagecoach South's Twitter feed.

So does bustimes.org actually show if a bus has been cancelled, or does it just not show up on there? Obviously, if a bus that is due doesn't show on there, then presumably it can mean that it has been cancelled or that it doesn't have GPS tracking equipment (or that the said equipment isn't working on that bus).

 

[markymark2000]

So does bustimes.org actually show if a bus has been cancelled, or does it just not show up on there? Obviously, if a bus that is due doesn't show on there, then presumably it can mean that it has been cancelled or that it doesn't have GPS tracking equipment (or that the said equipment isn't working on that bus).

Bustimes doesn't show if a bus has been cancelled as it's not set up to get that data from operators (if operators even release that data). To assume 'bus not tracking, bus not running' would be daft as sometimes there are issues with the tracking systems. We saw a recent bus open data outage so buses weren't tracking or were only tracking every 15+ minutes for about 3 days.

In the case of some firms, they are just too lazy to click 'yes track' on their ticketer portal so some routes don't track while others track nornally (yes Red Group & Sargeants looking at you).

You've also got Stagecoach who have some buses which don't track on the routes but they do log that the bus is doing a trip (so it knows 12:35 off the city centre is 10583 but there is no actual location coming through)


There's too many sources of information too to jump to a conclusion as some tracking comes from Passengers API (for operators using MyTrip or have a Passenger website), some from Bushubs tracking thing (for companies with a website by BusHub) and some tracking comes from Bus Open Data. The data on bus level can come from PinPointers, Ticketer, Transmach and more. Too many sources and data goes through so many points, if one thing fails, the buses won't track on bustimes.


My general thing is, if a bus isn't tracking on a route which normally tracks, for frequent routes I will try to plan around it. For infrequent routes, I generally check past tracking to see what the bus does incase it's just delayed. Then check twitter/Facebook to see if there's any details. It's never quite as simple as no tracking, not running.

 

[43055]

So does bustimes.org actually show if a bus has been cancelled, or does it just not show up on there? Obviously, if a bus that is due doesn't show on there, then presumably it can mean that it has been cancelled or that it doesn't have GPS tracking equipment (or that the said equipment isn't working on that bus).

Generally I find it can be a bit mixed for my local route. If the bus is not running then it will either just not track or if it is not running because it is really late and is going to run fast then it will track but in fact it is cancelled for all or part of the journey on the Facebook page.

 

[WAB]

And people wonder why people don't like using buses...

 

[Lewisham2221]

And people wonder why people don't like using buses...

I'm not quite sure why an unofficial website, which the vast majority of the travelling public likely don't even know about, would have any impact on peoples opinions of bus travel

 

[WAB]

I'm not quite sure why an unofficial website, which the vast majority of the travelling public likely don't even know about, would have any impact on peoples opinions of bus travel

It's not BusTimes that is the problem, as has been mentioned above. It's the unreliability of the data - there is no comparison to the railway's information. You won't find many people who trust any live bus tracking.

 

[mic]

sometimes buses are running but not tracking

 

[pokemonsuper9]

It's not BusTimes that is the problem, as has been mentioned above. It's the unreliability of the data - there is no comparison to the railway's information. You won't find many people who trust any live bus tracking.

I trust bustimes.org's tracking, however I don't treat absence of tracking as absence of service.

 

[markymark2000]

It's not BusTimes that is the problem, as has been mentioned above. It's the unreliability of the data - there is no comparison to the railway's information. You won't find many people who trust any live bus tracking.

Given 3 years ago, almost no buses had live tracking at all, I think we are doing pretty darn well. The majority of bus operators now have live tracking and more companies are starting to track each month. The technology will only improve but the main one that is needed is for the traffic commissioner to start punishing those who aren't complying. 1 operator has already been stung and I hope it starts an ongoing trend of stinging operators who believe that the legal requirements do not apply to them.

I trust the bus tracking almost completely. Theres only some occasions where I wonder what is going on and it's often linked back to one or two operators who aren't the best in normal times, let alone when it comes to bus open data and tracking.

 

[M803UYA]

I trust the bus tracking almost completely. Theres only some occasions where I wonder what is going on and it's often linked back to one or two operators who aren't the best in normal times, let alone when it comes to bus open data and tracking.

I tend to be a little less trusting of tracking. Likewise with ticket machine data. What happens if the driver takes the fare and doesn't issue the ticket? Oldest fiddle in the book. So these systems might inform decisions, but should not solely be relied upon.

 

[hexagon789]

Bustimes doesn't show if a bus has been cancelled as it's not set up to get that data from operators (if operators even release that data). To assume 'bus not tracking, bus not running' would be daft as sometimes there are issues with the tracking systems. We saw a recent bus open data outage so buses weren't tracking or were only tracking every 15+ minutes for about 3 days.

So what does it mean when I've often seen First Glasgow bus services on the site, when I ook at a specific stop, and certain times have a line through them?

I assumed it meant cancelled.

I often travel by bus from Silverburn where I can catch either the McGills or First No. 3.

These run from adjacent stances and both have XX:09 and XX:39 departures during the day.

Bar one occasion, whenever the First service has been 'struck through' it has not appeared at that time. (I do usually get the McGills anyway as it's quicker, more convenient, and the buses are more comfortable IMO.)

Here's an example of what I mean taken from bustimes right now:



If that doesn't mean the 2002 departure has been cancelled, what does it mean?

 

[Lewisham2221]

It's not BusTimes that is the problem, as has been mentioned above. It's the unreliability of the data - there is no comparison to the railway's information. You won't find many people who trust any live bus tracking.

You won't find many people who trust anything to do with buses, full stop, in my experience. No matter how much evidence you could show someone to the contrary.

Given 3 years ago, almost no buses had live tracking at all, I think we are doing pretty darn well. The majority of bus operators now have live tracking and more companies are starting to track each month. The technology will only improve but the main one that is needed is for the traffic commissioner to start punishing those who aren't complying. 1 operator has already been stung and I hope it starts an ongoing trend of stinging operators who believe that the legal requirements do not apply to them.

I trust the bus tracking almost completely. Theres only some occasions where I wonder what is going on and it's often linked back to one or two operators who aren't the best in normal times, let alone when it comes to bus open data and tracking.

Exactly this. We've managed for decades by just going to the bus stop at the advertised time and waiting. Now, all of a sudden, it's the end of the world if tracking isn't working. I've seen one person tweeting an operators customer service team almost every single day because the service they want to catch isn't tracking before they leave the house - the service hasn't even begun it's journey at this time, so ever likely it's not tracking.

I tend to be a little less trusting of tracking. Likewise with ticket machine data. What happens if the driver takes the fare and doesn't issue the ticket? Oldest fiddle in the book. So these systems might inform decisions, but should not solely be relied upon.

The only way a bus could track on BusTimes without actually operating is if a driver has been instructed to run dead, but activates the trip before reaching wherever the service is going to be restarted from. As for the fare/ticket issue, you demand your ticket. However, with contactless payments, mobile apps, the multitude of multi-journey tickets etc, that's far far less of a problem than it used to be.

So what does it mean when I've often seen First Glasgow bus services on the site, when I ook at a specific stop, and certain times have a line through them?

I assumed it meant cancelled.

I often travel by bus from Silverburn where I can catch either the McGills or First No. 3.

These run from adjacent stances and both have XX:09 and XX:39 departures during the day.

Bar one occasion, whenever the First service has been 'struck through' it has not appeared at that time. (I do usually get the McGills anyway as it's quicker, more convenient, and the buses are more comfortable IMO.)

Here's an example of what I mean taken from bustimes right now:

View attachment 138506

If that doesn't mean the 2002 departure has been cancelled, what does it mean?

It does indeed mean the service has been cancelled. Or, to be more accurate, the service has been marked as cancelled via the Ticketer portal. Presumably, in the instance you mention where the service did actually run, the service has either been erroneously marked as cancelled, or had been cancelled but control had found a way to operate the service - I'm not sure if it is possible to un-cancel a trip once it has been marked as cancelled, it's equally possible that the controller could've simply forgot to do it.

 

[hexagon789]

It does indeed mean the service has been cancelled. Or, to be more accurate, the service has been marked as cancelled via the Ticketer portal. Presumably, in the instance you mention where the service did actually run, the service has either been erroneously marked as cancelled, or had been cancelled but control had found a way to operate the service - I'm not sure if it is possible to un-cancel a trip once it has been marked as cancelled, it's equally possible that the controller could've simply forgot to do it.

That's fine then, my understanding was correct.

It was just with what markymark2000 had said about it not being set up to show cancellation data.

 

[markymark2000]

So what does it mean when I've often seen First Glasgow bus services on the site, when I ook at a specific stop, and certain times have a line through them?

I assumed it meant cancelled.

I often travel by bus from Silverburn where I can catch either the McGills or First No. 3.

These run from adjacent stances and both have XX:09 and XX:39 departures during the day.

Bar one occasion, whenever the First service has been 'struck through' it has not appeared at that time. (I do usually get the McGills anyway as it's quicker, more convenient, and the buses are more comfortable IMO.)

Here's an example of what I mean taken from bustimes right now:

View attachment 138506

If that doesn't mean the 2002 departure has been cancelled, what does it mean?

I think it may be in place in one or two areas but nowhere near widespread enough to say 'bustimes tells you when theres cancelled buses'. Cancellations are even less consistent than the normal tracking though as well because it relies upon constant user input.

 

[Lewisham2221]

That's fine then, my understanding was correct.

It was just with what markymark2000 had said about it not being set up to show cancellation data.

I think it may be in place in one or two areas but nowhere near widespread enough to say 'bustimes tells you when theres cancelled buses'. Cancellations are even less consistent than the normal tracking though as well because it relies upon constant user input.

It's a Ticketer portal function - I'm afraid I don't know how widespread its use is. I know some First operations have it, but not sure if all do. Or if they all use it. I don't know if any other operators who use Ticketer have it or use it. Know idea at all if there's a similar function for operators who use other systems. AS @markymark2000 says, it's certainly not particularly widespread and relies on an already busy controller fiddling around within the Ticketer portal to mark the trip as cancelled, so there's definitely potential for cancelled trips to not get marked as such, even in areas where the function is available/used.

 

[markymark2000]

It's a Ticketer portal function - I'm afraid I don't know how widespread its use is. I know some First operations have it, but not sure if all do. Or if they all use it. I don't know if any other operators who use Ticketer have it or use it. Know idea at all if there's a similar function for operators who use other systems. AS @markymark2000 says, it's certainly not particularly widespread and relies on an already busy controller fiddling around within the Ticketer portal to mark the trip as cancelled, so there's definitely potential for cancelled trips to not get marked as such, even in areas where the function is available/used.

It comes in some way from SPTs open data for Glasgow.

 

[WAB]

I trust bustimes.org's tracking, however I don't treat absence of tracking as absence of service.

Tracking doesn't always mean the service is running - plenty of buses running light or set down only still track. I also find that buses get 'stuck' and if they're coming off another route it's unclear whether they're on the way or not. You can make an educated guess, but it's all a bit of a gamble which I wouldn't really want to risk if I had somewhere to be promptly.

Given 3 years ago, almost no buses had live tracking at all, I think we are doing pretty darn well.

I do agree, but I just can't see much energy for progressing much beyond what we currently in terms of bus tracking across all operators.

Exactly this. We've managed for decades by just going to the bus stop at the advertised time and waiting.

In a world of driver shortages, fleet unreliability, heavy traffic and reduced services, are you seriously expecting people to turn up at a bus stop and hope for the best? This sort of attitude is the sort of mindset that will kill off buses for good. In a world where you can track your parcel to your door, your uber to the roadside etc. a lack of information is less likely to be tolerated.

 

[RELL6L]

I find BusTimes tracking absolutely invaluable. You have to accept it isn't perfect, some buses don't track, a bus apparently on the way could turn short or break down, just occasionally a bus out of service tracks as in service but there are usually clues - going unrealistically quickly or missing out loops etc. But most of the time it is accurate and incredibly useful. I took my wife on the bus last week, the outward journeys on our local services are reasonably reliable but the returns are very much not. She thinks the service is great because the buses come when I say they are going to....she doesn't quite realise that I say they are going to turn up when BusTimes says they are going to - not the published timetable!

Sadly, except on very frequent services, there are so many reasons why a bus could not turn up when planned, this is a fantastic addition to information available to anyone who is going to get the bus.

Just discovered this '?detailed=1' information with vehicles by trip showing on the timetable. What other information is available that you need to know how to get at? Is there a use guide showing all the functions available?

 

[318266]

It comes in some way from SPTs open data for Glasgow.

Which, for the uninitiated, likes to mark random McGill's services as cancelled.

The one X7 I use to commute in the mornings is always marked as cancelled by the time it gets to Port Glasgow

 

[mic]

I do not know why but First Halifax school buses do not track, whereas school ones at Oldham do. Also, Oldham's Amazon contract does not track.

 

[Stan Drews]

Which, for the uninitiated, likes to mark random McGill's services as cancelled.

The one X7 I use to commute in the mornings is always marked as cancelled by the time it gets to Port Glasgow

Does it track properly on the McGill’s app?