Bustitution. Can I go earlier?

[DeeGee]

I've got these tickets for a journey coming up. Itinerary as shown.

For decent reasons, I'd rather get to York earlier and wait for my onward train there than to wait at Newcastle longer for a bus. I don't know exactly what time I'll get to Newcastle station, and if I were to be getting the train all the way, I'd happily wait there, but I'd rather get away on an earlier bus.

The ticket appears to be LNER and connections, but the bustitution is operated by FTPE. There's one an hour earlier operated by Cross-country, so if I'm in time to get that, I'd rather.

I'm hoping that because the seats on the RRB are non-reservable, I can treat it as an appropriate connecting service?

Or because I've got an itinerary including the bus, am I restricted to that one?

 

[yorkie]

If the itinerary has not changed, then you are bound by it.

In practice, you are extremely likely to be allowed to board an earlier bus.

Next time, I suggest using our site, and going to advanced options, specify change at : York and specify additional time. The additional time is added onto the 8-minute minimum connection allowance.

However, I really wouldn't worry; it won't take 3 hours to get from Newcastle to York. If it's a non-stop bus then I would say about 2 hours unless traffic is really bad. Even if it stops intermediately, it shouldn't exceed the allowed journey time unless something exceptional happens.

 

[DeeGee]

Cheers @yorkie . It's my own fault. I looked at departure time from NCL, checked I had time for my connection at DON where I'm splitting my ticket, and didn't think to check the itinerary between the two.

I've got a slow itinerary outwards on the Friday night, changing at DON and Leeds, so I just assumed that it normally takes five hours to travel between Grimsby and Newcastle.

 

[yorkie]

Cheers @yorkie . It's my own fault. I looked at departure time from NCL, checked I had time for my connection at DON where I'm splitting my ticket...

we take care of that automatically

and didn't think to check the itinerary between the two.

I've got a slow itinerary outwards on the Friday night, changing at DON and Leeds, so I just assumed that it normally takes five hours to travel between Grimsby and Newcastle.

We make it really clear when a bus is involved

(image shows bus logos, and text "This journey includes at least one rail replacement bus service")

By all means do your own research and own splits, but bear in mind that if services are retimed or removed from the timetable between the date of booking and the date of travel, you may have an argument on your hands (especially if multiple TOCs and/or retailers are involved)

 

[paul1609]

When you get these rail itiniaries with the long distance replacement bus its often worth thinking mixed mode.
In the case of your departure from Newcastle both Flixbus and National Express offer a scheduled departure to leeds Bus station with reserved seats quicker than the rail replacement to York for a fraction of the rail fare. Unfortunately Leeds isnt a integrated transport hub and its about 15 mins walk to the rail station but i wouldnt mind betting you'd get to Grimsby quicker and cheaper by either coach service to leeds and a connecting rail service.

 

[yorkie]

When you get these rail itiniaries with the long distance replacement bus its often worth thinking mixed mode.
In the case of your departure from Newcastle both Flixbus and National Express offer a scheduled departure to leeds Bus station with reserved seats quicker than the rail replacement to York for a fraction of the rail fare. Unfortunately Leeds isnt a integrated transport hub and its about 15 mins walk to the rail station but i wouldnt mind betting you'd get to Grimsby quicker and cheaper by either coach service to leeds and a connecting rail service.

I'm not convinced that National Express via Leeds is going to beat the itinerary provided; do you have timings for a suggested itinerary that would be quicker?

 

[ClivePage]

It seems to be standard practice with nearly all, or perhaps all, railway operators that if your booked train is cancelled you can at no extra cost take a service that is up to two trains earlier or later. When a service is cancelled and replaced by a bus I'm not sure whether that counts as being cancelled for the purpose of this easement, but I would have thought it was arguable.

 

[yorkie]

It seems to be standard practice with nearly all, or perhaps all, railway operators that if your booked train is cancelled you can at no extra cost take a service that is up to two trains earlier or later. When a service is cancelled and replaced by a bus I'm not sure whether that counts as being cancelled for the purpose of this easement, but I would have thought it was arguable.

There is no cancellation to any booked service yet. The replacement bus was already planned, before the itinerary was booked. The selected itinerary includes the bus.

In practice, there is unlikely to be any issue taking an earlier bus, but I am not sure that it could be argued there is a definitive entitlement.

 

[DeeGee]

Thanks all,

It's a trip on expenses for a charity, so I felt morally bound to go for the cheapest option, which is why I've ended up with faff, but I think I might just ask and see what I'm able to get.
If I'm sat around Newcastle Station, then so be it, it's my own fault...

 

[MrJeeves]

The first TPE replacement bus leg does not have a reservation, and does not support reservations in the timetable. You would be fine to replace this with an alternative (earlier) replacement bus that does not offer reservations, just like you would with other non-reservable connecting trains. This is a more difficult right to exercise with E-Tickets as the service is still shown on the itinerary portion of the ticket.

It should be stated that this is different to the concepts of seats being reserveable, though. Some operators offer reservations with "no specific seat", called counted place reservations. You don't get a guaranteed seat, but your ticket would be bound to that service.

I would see no issues with you taking the 1640 (TPE) and 1655 (CrossCountry) replacement buses, for example. You, of course, could not use it on the LNER service at 1659, though. The latter leaves later but has fewer stops enroute, so arrives earlier than the TPE bus.

 

[Haywain]

You, of course, could not use it on the LNER service at 1659, though.

I doubt that anyone would care in the slightest. Even if there is a 'reservation' for the LNER bus it will be completely theoretical. I'm not sure why you would think it is or might be excluded.

 

[MrJeeves]

I doubt that anyone would care in the slightest. Even if there is a 'reservation' for the LNER bus it will be completely theoretical. I'm not sure why you would think it is or might be excluded.

The LNER service is a (diverted) train!

 

[IrishDave]

The LNER service is a (diverted) train!

Worse, the OP is booked on the 21:00 train from York, which in fact starts back from Edinburgh, departing Newcastle at 19:02 (and then diverting via the Durham Coast). So instead of getting a direct train, the Advance ticket in question is valid for a bus departing over an hour earlier, only to pick up the same train at York... I'm surprised such tickets are even sold.

 

[MrJeeves]

Worse, the OP is booked on the 21:00 train from York, which in fact starts back from Edinburgh, departing Newcastle at 19:02 (and then diverting via the Durham Coast). So instead of getting a direct train, the Advance ticket in question is valid for a bus departing over an hour earlier, only to pick up the same train at York...

Ah, that's also quite the kick in the teeth.

I'm surprised such tickets are even sold.

Such tickets are sold through retailers who afford lower price tickets in exchange for things exactly like this

You don't have to consider advance availability on a leg without reservations, meaning advances can end up significantly cheaper compared to train all the way.