Buying on the train, whilst boarding at a manned station...

[BrianTheLion]

I boarded a Scotrail train today at 15:40, with seconds to spare on a service between Port Glasgow/Glasgow which doesnt have any cheaper advance ticket structure.... at a manned station that had a person on duty at the ticket window. I didnt have time to stop to buy a ticket because my bus was 10 mins late and I just made the train after a short jog...

When I was approached by the conductor onboard I asked for a return, and was duly charged £8.00.... however this was the charge for an anytime day return. I boarded at a time when I'd normally qualify for an offpeak day return (£6.20) if I had of purchased at the ticket office.

Was the conductor in the right to charge me £8.00 instead of £6.20? I never queried it with him at the time, but I spent the whole journey thinking about it... I know it was ultimately my responsibility to buy in advance which is fair enough, although on this occasion wasnt actually my fault and for the sake of £1.80 I didnt want to start an argument especially as I didnt know who was in the wrong.

Id appreciate it if someone can clarify what the official stance is from a TOC perspective so I know to carry extra money in the future...

thanks in advance

 

[455driver]

If ticket purchasing facilities are available at the station you boarded then no discounted tickets should be offered on board, so the full price ticket was the correct ticket for you.

Was it the railways fault you were late?
No, so therefore it is your fault.
Everything else is not relevant.

I am sure one of the ticketing experts will be along to give chapter and verse soon.

 

[northwichcat]

The conductor is allowed to charge you the full fare if you don't attempt to buy a ticket before you board when ticket selling facilities are available.

 

[BrianTheLion]

If ticket purchasing facilities are available at the station you boarded then no discounted tickets should be offered on board, so the full price ticket was the correct ticket for you.

Was it the railways fault you were late?
No, so therefore it is your fault.
Everything else is not relevant.

So what you're saying is that an "Off Peak" ticket is classed as discounted??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The conductor is allowed to charge you the full fare if you don't attempt to buy a ticket before you board when ticket selling facilities are available.

I understand that, what I'm confused about is that in this instance "off peak" simply doesnt apply?

The route concerned only has two ticket types on it either Anytime day single/return and an offpeak day single/return....

I can buy a ticket now 12 weeks in advance and still pay the same price as on the day...

 

[yorkie]

You were charged correctly.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

To quote Scotrail's Passenger Charter:

"...If you travel without a ticket from a station where
there are facilities to buy one, you will have to pay the
full fare for the journey. No discounts will be available.
This may be more expensive than the ticket you could
have bought at the station...."

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/documents/Passengers_Charter_2011_-_2012.pdf

 

[BrianTheLion]

You were charged correctly.

Ok, I just wanted clarification so I know that next time in the common likelihood that I might be unfortunate enough not to have time to go to the ticket window that I will have to pay as If I was travelling during peak hours regardless of the actual time of day...

Funny that it happened today though because that was the first time in seven years of using this service that this has happened...

I could have just lied to the conductor and said the ticket person was out cleaning like they usually are... guess it just wasnt my day and was penalised for being honest...

mental note.. always take £8.00 to the station just in case!!!

 

[GadgetMan]

mental note.. always buy your ticket before boarding where facilities are available!!!

corrected for you.

 

[BrianTheLion]

corrected for you.

Do you reckon its worthwhile writing to Scotrail to ask for them to install ticket machine(s). At the minute Port Glasgow only has just one window and like I said a lot of the time the sole member of staff is sometimes over the bridge on the other platform performing cleaning duties, obviously leaving the sole "ticketing facility" unmanned.... It would also be handy for ticket on departure I guess...

and just to clarify for future reference... in ALL circumstances, if boarding a train, regardless of the time of day, at a station where "ticket facilities" are present then at all time I WILL be charged the equivalent ANYTIME fare, i.e the highest one possible?

 

[GadgetMan]

Do you reckon its worthwhile writing to Scotrail to ask for them to install ticket machine(s). At the minute Port Glasgow only has just one window and like I said a lot of the time the sole member of staff is sometimes over the bridge on the other platform performing cleaning duties, obviously leaving the sole "ticketing facility" unmanned.... It would also be handy for ticket on departure I guess...

and just to clarify for future reference... in ALL circumstances, if boarding a train, regardless of the time of day, at a station where "ticket facilities" are present then at all time I WILL be charged the equivalent ANYTIME fare, i.e the highest one possible?

If the only ticket issuing facility available is the ticket office and it is shut because the member of staff is busy carrying out other duties or on a break etc then you are entitled to a full range of fares on board. The guard can should they wish ring the station in question and confirm with the clerk that he/she did shut up shop briefly at xx-xx time. Or if the phone isn't picked up then it confirms the office is unmanned. If the Guard can't be bothered to check then they should take the passengers word for it.

 

[BrianTheLion]

If the only ticket issuing facility available is the ticket office and it is shut because the member of staff is busy carrying out other duties or on a break etc then you are entitled to a full range of fares on board. The guard can should they wish ring the station in question and confirm with the clerk that he/she did shut up shop briefly at xx-xx time. Or if the phone isn't picked up then it confirms the office is unmanned. If the Guard can't be bothered to check then they should take the passengers word for it.

Nobody has yet to answer this...

Take out all the permutations regarding what the staff might be doing, etc...

if you board a train at a station where there are facilities then the ONLY TICKET a guard should issue you is an ANYTIME fare?

Thats all I want to know... basically that Off Peak (after 9am) doesnt apply on board a train...

 

[lemonic]

Nobody has yet to answer this...

Take out all the permutations regarding what the staff might be doing, etc...

if you board a train at a station where there are facilities then the ONLY TICKET a guard should issue you is an ANYTIME fare?

Thats all I want to know... basically that Off Peak (after 9am) doesnt apply on board a train...

Officially the full fare i.e. Anytime is payable on board if facilities exist at the station, although some guards may show discretion and still charge an Off-Peak fare.

 

[EM2]

If there were facilities available at the time, you will be charged the full (i.e. the Anytime) fare.
If the office is shut, or the machine (if there was one) is out of order, you should be able to buy a full range of tickets on board.

 

[brianfraser]

I can only really speak for my local Fife Circle line, but generally it's not a problem buying an off-peak return on the train when boarding at a station with ticketing facilities. The vast majority of guards are ok with it, some might point out that you should have bought the ticket before getting on, but leave it at that.

I do genuinely try to arrive in time to buy a ticket at the station, but I've actually seen the ticket office being closed temporarily because the attendant has platform-cleaning duties to undertake. Or in the pre-internet days, people hogging the one ticketing window for 15 minutes as they make a lengthy enquiry or complex purchase.

 

[34D]

If you are in a rush next time, speak to the guard before boarding, and ask if he can sell you an off-peak ticket. Many will say yes.

and just to clarify for future reference... in ALL circumstances, if boarding a train, regardless of the time of day, at a station where "ticket facilities" are present then at all time I WILL be charged the equivalent ANYTIME fare, i.e the highest one possible?

Incorrect. Worst case scenario is you will be reported for prosecution.

 

[RPI]

one thing I will say about Scotrail stations is that every station seems to have signs near the entrance warning that you will be charged the full fare on the train (staffed/TVM stations anyway)