C158s, the air conditioning is useless, and so is the heating !

[Justin Smith]

I think everyone is aware of how bad the air conditioning is on C158s (I can remember travelling to Cleethorpes with my wife in the stifling sweaty heat and she swore she`d never travel by train again....) but the heating isn`t much better either. The unit I used to travel from Leeds to Blackburn on was rather too cold. The guard commented dryly that the heating only worked in the summer and the air con only worked in the winter !

Why is the C158 air conditioning/heating so bad ?

And why hasn`t anyone done anything about it ?

 

[devon_metro]

Probably a case of poor maintenance of the heating, i've never been on a FGW or SWT 158 with dodgy heating.

 

[WillPS]

At the time of production, 158s were mostly built with CFC-based Air Conditioning - however this was outlawed and by the late-90s had been forcibly disabled. I think the WYPTE 158s and the 159s had a different sort installed, and so never suffered.

A number of systems have been retrofitted since - some of them not very good/reliable. The problem now is that no operator (except SWT, as far as I can tell) has a fully-standardised ExpressSprinter fleet thanks to the various configurations (from build and subsequent refurbs/refreshes) set out by past owners/leasers/stakeholders. The most recent wave of refurbishments has in my experience rectified the problem, but there's still a number of dodgy-aircon 158s in service with Arriva Trains Wales and Northern.

 

[poshbakerloo]

The none refurbish 158s aren't allowed to have their AC on

 

[142094]

The none refurbish 158s aren't allowed to have their AC on

Why not?

There have been a few times I've travelled on a 158 back from Leeds, the AC wasn't working and the windows were open, but didn't make much difference. Thank God nearly everyone gets off at Cross Gates.

 

[Drsatan]

FGW's/Wessex Trains' 158s used to have non-functioning air conditioning, but all of FGW's refurbished 158s appear to have functioning air conditioning. I assume that a different type of air con was fitted.

 

[WillPS]

All just up there in my post!

 

[37372]

I don't really know what other TOCs 158s are like, but it seems the Northern 158s are red hot in the summer and icy cold in the winter.
I got on one the other day and it was so cold that you could see your breath.

I've had more comfortable pacer rides!

 

[SouthernCrescent]

The Scotrail 158's have had improved a/c fitted and they still run around with the little windows open to try and get a bit of air in. I took one out of Edinburgh last summer - hot and crowded - never again. Having said this I was on a c170 recently and there was no fresh air in one end of the middle coach. It was hot and sticky (this was in winter) while the other coaches were fine. The sad thing is that if you find a unit with something no essential like a/c broken it seems to stay that way.

 

[jon0844]

If the air conditioning is on with the windows open, it is never going to work. It's now trying to cool air drawn in from outside!

I doubt any air-con system can cool the whole country!

Close the windows and it may actually stand a chance of gradually lowering the temperature, and also reducing the humidity (which is often what is needed to increase comfort). Of course, over time, that can also dry out your skin.

 

[TDK]

If the air conditioning is on with the windows open, it is never going to work. It's now trying to cool air drawn in from outside!

I doubt any air-con system can cool the whole country!

Close the windows and it may actually stand a chance of gradually lowering the temperature, and also reducing the humidity (which is often what is needed to increase comfort). Of course, over time, that can also dry out your skin.

The windows on the 158's are only opened when the Air Con isn't working

 

[Failed Unit]

The windows on the 158's are only opened when the Air Con isn't working

I always find it amusing on the Scotrail 158's they have a notice next to the window saying something like "improved air conditioning fitted for your comfort" and the window is open Using my warped logic the improved airconditioning is the open window.

The 158's I use the most EMT and Scotrails don't seem to have a problem been too cold but I have had a very cold Arriva journey accross central wales. I remember they were lovely as new when the air-con was working. You can tell the ones that have had modified systems they have larger grills above the doors. Have a look at photo's of SWT's, ex-CT or Scotrail units and compare them to any that have the Alpha-line livery. As WillPS stated you can't go operate specific as TPE never did anything to the air-con and the CT fleet is now well travelled. Northern and EMT now have example of new and old aircon (at least until the EMT refresh is done).

Not sure what the policy is of ATW, FGW and Northern re-air con modifications. EMT's will all be improved as part of the refurb and Scotrails have been done (bar the 8 on lease from Northern)

 

[starrymarkb]

Wessex did a good refurb, pity they only managed to do a couple of units...

But take the FGW fleet, they had a mix of units that had been refurbished to varying degrees by W&W, CT, TPX, Virgin and Wessex. They'd had different mods, different aircons, different engines etc

 

[Failed Unit]

Wessex did a good refurb, pity they only managed to do a couple of units...


But take the FGW fleet, they had a mix of units that had been refurbished to varying degrees by W&W, CT, TPX, Virgin and Wessex. They'd had different mods, different aircons, different engines etc

158751 the ex-Cross country unit, is that why it was done is it was as built where as the other were refurbished recently? Very nice however. I remember going on 750 while it was at TPE and it still had RR livery at the time. It was like getting in a time machine to Cleethorpes.

EMT have the same problem, 4 different types if I recall and 3 different engines (The original Cummins, Perkins and the beefy Cummins). The refurbishment will sort out the standard interiors but the poor EMT fitters will still have 3 engine types (unless the refurb changes these?)

 

[The 158 Man]

I had the pleasure of travelling on 158750 (my then favourite 158 ) once.

Still had Regional Railways livery and Regional Railways interior too. It shot off like a bullet upon departure, and it had a great horn!

 

[WillPS]

Is 750 now with SWT? Has it been renumbered?

 

[Failed Unit]

Is 750 now with SWT? Has it been renumbered?

I think it is now 158882, just trying to get something to confirm.

 

[thefab444]

No, 158750 went to FGW after leaving TPE, and it is now part of 158953, along with one half of 158745.

 

[Vulcan]

The Northern 158s have a two german air-con units per coach. I can't remmeber the brand name but I do remember it being a german looking word. I have never noticed the heating being too intense, but the 158 with opening windows is much better suited to having dodgy air-con. Ever been on a 185 with an air-con failure? I have and its not pleasent, but the free water was nice.

 

[Justin Smith]

The Northern 158s have a two german air-con units per coach. I can't remmeber the brand name but I do remember it being a german looking word. I have never noticed the heating being too intense, but the 158 with opening windows is much better suited to having dodgy air-con. Ever been on a 185 with an air-con failure? I have and its not pleasent, but the free water was nice.

Of course Class 156s are even better in the reliable ventilation dept......

 

[Failed Unit]

The Northern 158s have a two german air-con units per coach. I can't remmeber the brand name but I do remember it being a german looking word. I have never noticed the heating being too intense, but the 158 with opening windows is much better suited to having dodgy air-con. Ever been on a 185 with an air-con failure? I have and its not pleasent, but the free water was nice.

Have all of Northern been done, I though it was only the ones that came from CT that have been done, ex North Western units from the South West as far as I know have still got the original.

 

[Vulcan]

Of course Class 156s are even better in the reliable ventilation dept......

so is a pacer, but lets not go there!

Have all of Northern been done, I though it was only the ones that came from CT that have been done, ex North Western units from the South West as far as I know have still got the original.

I think they have all been done, I can't say I have noticed many with the windows open. The Northern 158s are generally quite comfortable, including the temperature, IMO.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
the only difference i can see with the ex-central trains units are the green stickers all over the interior and the automatic talky box.

 

[Failed Unit]

so is a pacer, but lets not go there!



I think they have all been done, I can't say I have noticed many with the windows open. The Northern 158s are generally quite comfortable, including the temperature, IMO.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
the only difference i can see with the ex-central trains units are the green stickers all over the interior and the automatic talky box.

Just had a look at a few photo's the ex North Western ones look to have been done. The centre coaches have not (as TPE didn't do any work on the aircon). Neither have the ones that came from FGW.

 

[Vulcan]

I'm glad 'my'* 158758 is one of the A-OK units. 158s have been regular performers on my journey home from Huddersfield, and I have not been on one thats been remarkably cold or too warm. They are usually just nicely warm enough to nod me off to sleep.





*I have it's N gauge counterpart, therefore I own the real thing. Thats how it works, right?

 

[Drimnagh Road]

The ATW 158s are probably the worst 158s on the network, very grubby and tired inside, and the air-con rearly works.

You really notice this if you change onto a 175 at Chester for example, which I always find probably have the best air-con during the Summer.

The problem is, the ATW franchise does not include funding to internally refurbish the 158s, just a repaint. So come the end of the franchise - which I think is 2015 but correct me if I'm wrong - the 158s are going to be a complete and utter disgrace.

I believe that during the repaint programme currently underway, they were trialling a different type of paint on the roof that will bounce back off the heat of the sun as they acknowledge that the air-con is dire.

Considering the long distance routes and very tight diagrams these units work, it is a shame that these will perhaps be the only 158s not to receive an upgrade especially when they are in dire need of one.

The Central 158s were done up and the EMT done them up again which isn't fair considering the ATW ones haven't been touched since the 90s.



"The Northern 158s have a two german air-con units per coach. I can't remmeber the brand name but I do remember it being a german looking word"

I think these are Liebherr ones.

 

[Vulcan]

"The Northern 158s have a two german air-con units per coach. I can't remmeber the brand name but I do remember it being a german looking word"

I think these are Liebherr ones.

sounds about right.

Have they sorted out the ex TPE 158s yet? they were painted in the smart Northern Spirit Transpenning livery (purple, gold N), they first stuck a blue stipe on the lower bodyside, then central got them and put their ))) thing on top of all that on the cab ends, and finally, East Midlands Trains stuck another vinyl on the llower bodyside. they look a right mess.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3654/3610565511_63e18143ed.jpg?v=0

 

[WillPS]

There's a couple left, I'll miss 'em when they've gone.

 

[krus_aragon]

So come the end of the franchise - which I think is 2015 but correct me if I'm wrong

2017 There'll be wires in Cardiff by then!

 

[317666]

There's a couple left, I'll miss 'em when they've gone.

Same here, certainly the most comfortable DMUs i've travelled on.

 

[Justin Smith]

Same here, certainly the most comfortable DMUs i've travelled on.

Have you been on a class 185 ?