Cable theft becoming a more common occurrence

[Ladder23]

I work along the MML, and have noticed a significant increase in theft or at least attempts to made at pulling cable.

What can/ should be done to prevent this, obviously it's not the hardest of tasks for those who are doing it, and with so much trackside access being unmanned and without CCTV I am out of ideas on how this can be reduced/ stopped!

An article from the event that happened yesterday evening on the MML attached.

Two arrests after cable theft at Harlington cause travel disruption

Trains were delayed or cancelled after cables were taken close to the station on Monday, Thameslink says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Police investigating the thefts of cables along a railway line, which caused major travel disruption, have made two arrests.

Thameslink said the thefts took place close to Harlington, between Leagrave and Flitwick in Bedfordshire, at about 21:15 GMT on Monday night.

The signalling systems were restored by Network Rail in the early hours and services were "getting back to our planned timetable", it said.

 

[Bald Rick]

theres a good chance that the two nicked last night have been responsible for most of the incidents on the south end of the MML recently.

 

[Master29]

Hopefully they`ll get on top of it now they have 2 of the bar stewards.

 

[Ladder23]

theres a good chance that the two nicked last night have been responsible for most of the incidents on the south end of the MML recently.

I would imagine so!

 

[zwk500]

What can/ should be done to prevent this, obviously it's not the hardest of tasks for those who are doing it, and with so much trackside access being unmanned and without CCTV I am out of ideas on how this can be reduced/ stopped!

Fundamentally, only a massive allocation of policing time and resources will be able to stop cable theft. If people are willing to go after cables they know have a chance of being 25KV AC energised then there's not a lot of hope reasoning with them.
People steal cables to make money, so there are 3 potential strategies: 1. Hope metal prices fall enough to make it not worth the hassle. 2. Pour money into identifying and apprehending the culprits or 3. Make it too much hassle for Scrappies to risk dealing in stolen cable.
1. is unrealistic to control and nobody really knows what the thresholds are. 3. was tried (half-heartedly) but it's an industry that's almost impossible to regulate, so only 2. is available, barring blind luck at catching the cable fairies at it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Can the use of copper cables on the railway (which presumably have "value" to a thief) practically be replaced by fibre optic cables?

 

[zwk500]

Can the use of copper cables on the railway (which presumably have "value" to a thief) practically be replaced by fibre optic cables?

Some can, but only those that transfer data rather than power. Transition to ETCS should help in this regard, but even so OLE installations will require considerable amounts of copper (or other conductive metal) cables.

 

[Elecman]

Can the use of copper cables on the railway (which presumably have "value" to a thief) practically be replaced by fibre optic cables?

Not for supplying power to operate points/ point heaters, Hot Axlebox detectors , lighting etc

 

[Bald Rick]

Can the use of copper cables on the railway (which presumably have "value" to a thief) practically be replaced by fibre optic cables?

They typically go for power cables (Non traction). They know what they’re doing. There have been examples of ‘inside jobs’, unfortunately. The electricity industry has it worse than we do.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Fundamentally, only a massive allocation of policing time and resources will be able to stop cable theft. If people are willing to go after cables they know have a chance of being 25KV AC energised then there's not a lot of hope reasoning with them.
People steal cables to make money, so there are 3 potential strategies: 1. Hope metal prices fall enough to make it not worth the hassle. 2. Pour money into identifying and apprehending the culprits or 3. Make it too much hassle for Scrappies to risk dealing in stolen cable.
1. is unrealistic to control and nobody really knows what the thresholds are. 3. was tried (half-heartedly) but it's an industry that's almost impossible to regulate, so only 2. is available, barring blind luck at catching the cable fairies at it.

Wouldn't the best idea be to fit solar powered batteries and motion activated CCTV at each access point over the next decade, with excess power feeding back into the network? So that police were called to investigate if motion was detected and a code was not entered within a certain period.

 

[Bald Rick]

Wouldn't the best idea be to fit solar powered batteries and motion activated CCTV at each access point over the next decade, with excess power feeding back into the network? So that police were called to investigate if motion was detected and a code was not entered within a certain period.

They tend not to use access points…

 

[Ladder23]

Wouldn't the best idea be to fit solar powered batteries and motion activated CCTV at each access point over the next decade, with excess power feeding back into the network? So that police were called to investigate if motion was detected and a code was not entered within a certain period.

I highly doubt they're using access gates with the knowledge they got to get out what they do, they most likely take fencing down by any means, the area that link mentions is very much deserted for a long distance with limited accesses but it's surrounded by a redundant quarry and landfill.

 

[HSTEd]

Some can, but only those that transfer data rather than power. Transition to ETCS should help in this regard, but even so OLE installations will require considerable amounts of copper (or other conductive metal) cables.

Well.... we could always go back to Aluminium-Steel (AWAC) conductor cables, albeit with a different design to reduce flashover issues.

That would cut material value considerably, for a comparable cable conductance.

 

[AlastairFraser]

They tend not to use access points…

But if they passed one in the process on the railway side of the barrier, they'd show up.

I highly doubt they're using access gates with the knowledge they got to get out what they do, they most likely take fencing down by any means, the area that link mentions is very much deserted for a long distance with limited accesses but it's surrounded by a redundant quarry and landfill.

In which case, it may be an idea to implement extra security in the area if it's surrounded by an insecure property.

 

[Annetts key]

If the railways were not so cheap with their cable routes (most run in surface concrete troughing with lids that are relatively easy to remove), and actually put the cables in underground cable ducts, it would make it considerably harder to steal or damage lineside cables.

Cable theft has been going on ever since the days of overhead pole routes for telegraph and telephone systems. At one time on some areas, BR used buried underground cable routes. But this this costs more money and if not managed properly, results in other engineering departments or contractors digging holes through the underground cable route…

 

[Bluejays]

Maybe some more punitive sentences might be in order. Now I know every case is different, but a Google search shows the South Africans have a very different way of dealing with cable theft.

First story on Google is of a case in south Africa. The thieves got 15 years each and were described as 'economic saboteurs'.


Second search result was of a father and son from Newport who stole over £8,000 of cable. One got 3 months, the other 16 weeks suspended.

 

[baz962]

How did they catch them. Are arrests for cable theft common on the railway.

 

[Sonik]

Maybe some more punitive sentences might be in order. Now I know every case is different, but a Google search shows the South Africans have a very different way of dealing with cable theft.

SA has a very serious problem. Due to corruption and sabotage, power cuts are a daily occurrence and their entire electricity system is on the brink of total collapse. Contractors have even been arrested for damaging things to create work for themselves. Don't think UK cable theft really compares!

 

[Bald Rick]

But if they passed one in the process on the railway side of the barrier, they'd show up.

If. And they happened to be wearing something distinctive, and looked at the camera, etc etc. These people aren’t stupid. Well, most of them aren’t.

How did they catch them.

The usual way. “You’re nicked”

Are arrests for cable theft common on the railway.

Good question. I’ve known of several arrests. Typically there’s a very few people involved, and an arrest or two usually stops the issue in any one given area.

 

[Taunton]

Cable theft has been going on ever since the days of overhead pole routes for telegraph and telephone systems. At one time on some areas, BR used buried underground cable routes. But this this costs more money and if not managed properly, results in other engineering departments or contractors digging holes through the underground cable route…

I understand that the signalling cable on Paddington to Didcot was buried long ago after repeated theft. The location records were not accurate, and the breakage of this during installation of OHLE masts a few years ago by the "high output train" was one of the major causes of repeated delays to the service at the time, and additional project cost.

 

[Donny_m]

I know how this is done, can’t remember who told me, but I was told there’s 2 teams x amount of distance apart, one team cuts the cable and attaches it to a winder drum and the other end cut their end and they wind 100’s of metres of cable onto the drum in seconds and speed off.

Manufacturing the cable with eye points on it so it can be fixed into the ground every 5 metres or so so it can’t be wound onto a real would stop the above scenario for a start.

 

[zwk500]

I know how this is done, can’t remember who told me, but I was told there’s 2 teams x amount of distance apart, one team cuts the cable and attaches it to a winder drum and the other end cut their end and they wind 100’s of metres of cable onto the drum in seconds and speed off.

Manufacturing the cable with eye points on it so it can be fixed into the ground every 5 metres or so so it can’t be wound onto a real would stop the above scenario for a start.

Like underground conduits, it's a cost/time vs benefit thing. Securing the cable into the ground every 5m or so requires a lot more manpower and time to install the cables, and it can still be defeated with either an appropriate cutter or enough force.

 

[Annetts key]

I understand that the signalling cable on Paddington to Didcot was buried long ago after repeated theft. The location records were not accurate, and the breakage of this during installation of OHLE masts a few years ago by the "high output train" was one of the major causes of repeated delays to the service at the time, and additional project cost.

That’s the tip of the iceberg. Buried cables have been getting damaged due to incompetence for many, many years prior to the OHL programme. Western Region did have records (although some were missing). But if the other department/contractors don’t ask, they won’t be told where the cable routes are…
You should never ever assume that there are no buried services. Heck, water pipes have even been hit before…

I know how this is done, can’t remember who told me, but I was told there’s 2 teams x amount of distance apart, one team cuts the cable and attaches it to a winder drum and the other end cut their end and they wind 100’s of metres of cable onto the drum in seconds and speed off.

Manufacturing the cable with eye points on it so it can be fixed into the ground every 5 metres or so so it can’t be wound onto a real would stop the above scenario for a start.

The problem is that just cutting a vital signalling or power (and some telecommunications) cable causes massive disruption, even if they don’t actually take any…

If they find it too awkward to pull out a long length, they just chop it into smaller bits.

Various methods are already used to try to protect the surface cable routes. But unless they are disturbed, they will take as much time as they need to try to defeat any protection methods.

Even if police or railway staff are within half a mile of the vandals, by the time you get to where they were, they have ran off and disappeared.

 

[Bald Rick]

You should never ever assume that there are no buried services. Heck, water pipes have even been hit before…

Indeed, many years ago my lads ‘found’ (cut through) an unrecorded gas main when doing a track renewal near Romford; caused one part of Romford to have no gas for a day. Unfortunately it was Christmas Day

 

[zwk500]

That’s the tip of the iceberg. Buried cables have been getting damaged due to incompetence for many, many years prior to the OHL programme. Western Region did have records (although some were missing). But if the other department/contractors don’t ask, they won’t be told where the cable routes are…
You should never ever assume that there are no buried services. Heck, water pipes have even been hit before…

There is also the issue that buried surfaces can move in relation to the records as well. Railway record keeping is woefully poor at times and if you buried every single power cable in a 3ft trench it'd cost far more to repair and replace every time a fault needed investigating.

Various methods are already used to try to protect the surface cable routes. But unless they are disturbed, they will take as much time as they need to try to defeat any protection methods.

And this is the problem - the value of the cable is worth the time and risk of getting it. Hell people even steal the 33KV grid distribution lines on occasion.

 

[exbrel]

i don't know the pros or cons of it, but at our station (unmanned), there are signs saying "smart water has been used", so is it still used, and is it any use?

 

[zwk500]

i don't know the pros or cons of it, but at our station (unmanned), there are signs saying "smart water has been used", so is it still used, and is it any use?

I'd imagine it is still used (or something like it) because it's cheap and easy to apply, although it's value is more questionable. It's primarily a deterrent, and unless you interviewed a vast number of people you'd never know how many people were actually deterred from taking/buying it because of UV tags. However it does also have an investigative value, and you could track how many times such markings were evidence used in securing arrests or convictions. No idea if you'd get answer from any police force on something like that.

 

[baz962]

If. And they happened to be wearing something distinctive, and looked at the camera, etc etc. These people aren’t stupid. Well, most of them aren’t.




The usual way. “You’re nicked”




Good question. I’ve known of several arrests. Typically there’s a very few people involved, and an arrest or two usually stops the issue in any one given area.

Thanks for the reply to my question about are many arrests made. I suppose I asked for it on how they were arrested.I meant that when I think about the cable theft I usually wonder how good they are at stealing it , plus being done in the dark and probably few witnesses and the police being nowhere near. Were they spotted or was a police patrol just passing etc.

 

[Bald Rick]

I meant that when I think about the cable theft I usually wonder how good they are at stealing it , plus being done in the dark and probably few witnesses and the police being nowhere near. Were they spotted or was a police patrol just passing etc.

I‘m not going to post details here of any individual ’operation’, lest it give the bad guys ideas.

What I can say is there is a wealth of ’intelligence’ on the methods and gangs involved.

 

[12LDA28C]

If the railways were not so cheap with their cable routes (most run in surface concrete troughing with lids that are relatively easy to remove), and actually put the cables in underground cable ducts, it would make it considerably harder to steal or damage lineside cables.

It would also make it considerably harder to access for maintenance and repair, not to mention more expensive at a time when any excuse is being sought to cut costs.