CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Northerngirl]

It's not uncommon to have people standing or sitting on the floor in coach 1 or 2 of a 5-car set, whilst coach 5 has less than half a dozen people in it - and then when told, for them to just shrug or look at you blankly and remain where they are. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Far from a tfw issue, it happens on everything around here, I've seen people Crowd in vestusbles when quater of the seats are free plenty of times

 

[Jez]

Ive noticed quite a few people choose to stand on a 197 even if there are a few empty next to someone. Much more than on a 175 or 158. I think perhaps its because around the doors there is plenty of space to stand. I always found being crammed into a 175 very uncomfortable, they werent great when overcrowded. Especially trying to get to the doors. At least on a 197 there is more to move around. I have stood from Hereford to Newport (I think) and found it more bearable even if not ideal.

 

[Pete_uk]

Maybe they might consider it 'making a fuss' if they moved?

 

[40029 Saxonia]

2 x Class 230s diagrams were operating on the Bidston route last week, leaving only 1 diagram for a 197. The 230s were also managing to operate all day without switching units half way through the day

 

[Jez]

There seems to be a few 2 car 197s on the Marches today. Certainly the 0753 and 1353 from CDF-MAN. Not helped by a 3 car 197 covering for a MK4.

The 1500 Milford-Manchester is showing as a 150 on RTT. I would assume this is going to be swapped at Cardiff for a 197 and keep the 150 on West Wales workings. Its been quite a long time since a 150 or indeed a 153 has worked to Manchester I think.

 

[Bikeman78]

There seems to be a few 2 car 197s on the Marches today. Certainly the 0753 and 1353 from CDF-MAN. Not helped by a 3 car 197 covering for a MK4.

The 1500 Milford-Manchester is showing as a 150 on RTT. I would assume this is going to be swapped at Cardiff for a 197 and keep the 150 on West Wales workings. Its been quite a long time since a 150 or indeed a 153 has worked to Manchester I think.

150217 was the last one to Manchester October last year. They still get up to Crewe frequently, via the Heart of Wales, or on 1W70 to work the Heart of Wales the following day.

The trouble with the class 197 diagrams is that once you have a short form heading west, there is nothing to split at Swansea, and therefore nothing to attach to the next up train. So the two car carries on alone.

 

[Jez]

150217 was the last one to Manchester October last year. They still get up to Crewe frequently, via the Heart of Wales, or on 1W70 to work the Heart of Wales the following day.

The trouble with the class 197 diagrams is that once you have a short form heading west, there is nothing to split at Swansea, and therefore nothing to attach to the next up train. So the two car carries on alone.

Thanks for the info. I wondered how long ago it was, its probably even longer since a 150 work to Chester/North Wales.

It looks like the 150 was swapped at Carmarthen rather than Cardiff for a 197. And then at Cardiff it was formed of 5 cars.

There seems to be lots of juggling going on with the 197s and Sprinters covering the occasional diagram or part of diagram. Hopefully reliability improves as they wont have the Sprinters to fall back on for much longer.

 

[Topological]

153s have been to Manchester since October (I believe, I was not on them)

It will also help when the various cascades around Cardiff are enabled.

At some point some of the current 197 fleet go to their intended work on the Cambrian as well, but that seems to be a while off yet.

 

[WirralLine]

Thanks for the info. I wondered how long ago it was, its probably even longer since a 150 work to Chester/North Wales.

Majority of the crews who work Chester-Holyhead/Llandudno no longer sign 150s with that number ever increasing.

 

[Jez]

153s have been to Manchester since October (I believe, I was not on them)

It will also help when the various cascades around Cardiff are enabled.

At some point some of the current 197 fleet go to their intended work on the Cambrian as well, but that seems to be a while off yet.

Yes I think a pair of 153s have worked it earlier this year but its very rare now. Even 158s are becoming rare.

Yes when 197s are removed from the likes of Ebbw Vale it will certainly help however we will also eventually lose some to the Cambrian line as you say. So any drop in availability is going to unfortunately mean short formed services (covering for MK4 too as we have seen this week)

Majority of the crews who work Chester-Holyhead/Llandudno no longer sign 150s with that number ever increasing.

Yes id imagine they would have now. I guess Crewe will sign them a bit longer while they are still used on Crewe Local and HOWL.

 

[craigybagel]

Yes id imagine they would have now. I guess Crewe will sign them a bit longer while they are still used on Crewe Local and HOWL.

For now, yes that's the official line. When Chester and North Wales crews lose 150 & 153 competency they will not be given refreshes to keep competency. For now, Crewe & Shrewsbury depots are expected to maintain both, and whilst 150 appearances in the north are rare there's just about enough to keep within competence. That will be changing soon - though 153s will be remaining for both of these depots in the long term.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197s at Crewe depot at the moment as of (3/4/25):

Carriage shed: 197022 and 197023,

Maintenance shed: 197026

 

[Bikeman78]

Thanks for the info. I wondered how long ago it was, its probably even longer since a 150 work to Chester/North Wales.

150217 escaped to Chester on 1W91 a few weeks later. It was discussed on the forum but I can't remember which thread.

 

[Jez]

150217 escaped to Chester on 1W91 a few weeks later. It was discussed on the forum but I can't remember which thread.

thanks. I must have missed that one. I suppose going to Chester via Gobowen isnt so bad as it could be Crewe etc train crew rather than Chester on that particular service.

 

[sd0733]

A 150 worked to Crewe via Wrexham and Chester in the early hours this morning working up from Cardiff.

Quite a lot of booked 150s at the moment on Heart of Wales services with the withdrawal of the 153/9s and the temporary loss of 153/5s.

 

[Jez]

A 150 worked to Crewe via Wrexham and Chester in the early hours this morning working up from Cardiff.

Quite a lot of booked 150s at the moment on Heart of Wales services with the withdrawal of the 153/9s and the temporary loss of 153/5s.

I've noticed that in recent weeks. I'm taking a run out on the HOWL this afternoon. My first 150 ever on the line. Will post a report in a different thread however to avoid taking this off topic!

I noticed there was a 197 in Swansea at platform 4. Is this a regular occurance during the daytime now? As the last time I was there I saw the same thing

Edit sorry I should have been cllear. I should say a 197 being stabled at Swansea for several hours each day. Obviously there are going to be 197s at Swansea!

 

[Bikeman78]

A 150 worked to Crewe via Wrexham and Chester in the early hours this morning working up from Cardiff.

Quite a lot of booked 150s at the moment on Heart of Wales services with the withdrawal of the 153/9s and the temporary loss of 153/5s.

I'd completely forgotten that 1W70 runs via Chester sometimes. I think that everything from Cardiff to Shrewsbury is booked class 197 or loco hauled from May.

 

[craigybagel]

I've noticed that in recent weeks. I'm taking a run out on the HOWL this afternoon. My first 150 ever on the line. Will post a report in a different thread however to avoid taking this off topic!

Some people used to complain when 150s turned up on the HOWL. The view is a lot better from a 153! Good for making up delays though

I'd completely forgotten that 1W70 runs via Chester sometimes. I think that everything from Cardiff to Shrewsbury is booked class 197 or loco hauled from May.

It's about once every 2 months there's an overnight blockade Shrewsbury to Crewe, and the last trains at night and first in the morning go via Chester. 1W70 becomes 1W89 in May, and will indeed be booked 197. 1V99 which has long been the late night Shrewsbury - Cardiff service used to transfer Sprinters south and currently runs through from Crewe using the units from the Crewe - Shrewsbury local becomes a Chester - Cardiff service in May, suggesting it will also be a 197 and as you say, removing Sprinters from the route. At least on paper anyway.

 

[nigelsporne]

I noticed, from RTT, that there is a service from Holyhead to International today which is a 158 to Shrewsbury and then a 158/197 to International. Is this possible?

 

[craigybagel]

I noticed, from RTT, that there is a service from Holyhead to International today which is a 158 to Shrewsbury and then a 158/197 to International. Is this possible?

Not if you want to go more than 5mph. There will be a set swap at some point during the day.

 

[nigelsporne]

Pity. I need 197012. I will keep an eye on it though. Thanks for this.

 

[45076]

There was a 2 car 197 on 2
lowloaders Heading north on tne M5 on Friday 4th April. I have no idea which one it was though.

 

[nigelsporne]

197012 did make it to International this evening with 002. There now appears to be one diagram a day that brings a 197 to Brum. During the week it was a three car set and today a pair of two cars. The service comes from Holyhead.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

There was a 2 car 197 on 2
lowloaders Heading north on tne M5 on Friday 4th April. I have no idea which one it was though.

It was 197037. Due to be delivered to Crewe depot (ATC) sometime this coming week. I saw it on the M5 heading North as I was travelling south.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Question.
How many of the Cambrian Coast variety of the 197s are in use OR have been used ?.
I believe that the Cambrian ones are twenty-one 197/0s => 197003, 197022-197041 ?

 

[berneyarms]

Question.
How many of the Cambrian Coast variety of the 197s are in use OR have been used ?.
I believe that the Cambrian ones are twenty-one 197/0s => 197003, 197022-197041 ?

That question has been answered in this thread already - just go back a page or two.

 

[D7672]

197003,197028,029,31,33/34 so far running in traffic

 

[Jamesrob637]

Maybe it's called the HOWL because that's what you do when you find out it's a clapped-out unit.

 

[tfw756rider]

Question.
How many of the Cambrian Coast variety of the 197s are in use OR have been used ?.
I believe that the Cambrian ones are twenty-one 197/0s => 197003, 197022-197041 ?

Correct, the ETCS-fitted (Cambrian lines main/coast) 197s are 21x 197/0s numbered 197003 and 197022-197041.

7 of these have so far been used in service (I believe with the ETCS isolated for now) as normal 197s on conventionally-signalled lines:

197003/028/029/030/031/033/034

======================

All 56 non-ETCS 197s (30x 2-car - 197001-197002, 197004-197021, 197042-197051 and 26x 3-car, comprising 12x 188-seat - 197101-197112, and 14x 174-seat - 197113-197126) have been in service,

plus the 7 ETCS-fitted 2-car 197s mentioned above (197003, 197028-197031, 197033-197034) = 63 197s that have been in service (37x 2-car and 26x 3-car),

leaving 14 197s that haven't yet been in service (all of which are ETCS-fitted 2-car - 197022-197027, 197032, 197035-197041). Once those 14 have all entered service then the number will of course match the build quantities (77 total units, comprising 51x 2-car and 26x 3-car).

 

[158822]

Hi all, Does anyone know if driver and guard training on the class 197s at Machynlleth and Pwllheli has actually started yet and are there still issues getting the 197s up the coast to Pwllheli? Thanks in advance.