CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Anonymous10]

A quick search on RTT for Neath to Manchester all day services it shows all but one service is 5 car. And the one that isnt is 4 car. This is excellent progress. Even the service that goes via the district line in the morning and therefore misses Neath is a 5 car. In the other direction it looks like most are 5 car except the 1530 which is 2 car. I see that on the up journey its also a 2 car from Cardiff. Assume the unit needs to come off for some reason but good capacity for the busy Swansea-Cardiff section of the route on a Saturday morning.

I know that Sprinters have still been covering quite a bit but it seems they are keeping them on services that need a 197 the least e.g Swanline/Pembroke Dock and Maesteg/Ebbw Vale.

Which service goes via the district line?

 

[Steveswan10]

When Talerddig happened and quite a bad availability of 158's during winter, the clearance of the Birmingham route was brought forward to create more flexibility in using 197's. I've noticed a lot of swaps at Shrewsbury in the past few months. Not great for passengers.
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point this year there will start to be changes to the Cambrian workings. Eventually I think the plan is to isolate the 158's to the Cambrian until the full 197 changeover.


I can't see TFW taking on anymore 197's as there's an already well discussed issue of CAF not having the capacity to maintain them. Once the whole TFW fleet is bedded in then it's unlikely TFW will need anymore units.
It's just a shame 3 cars weren't ordered for the Cambrian.

I can understand that depot capacity will be an issue (given its a bigger fleet then the 175's) so again if there was a need for extra capacity (in the future) would they then have to provide another depot? Could Cardiff Canton be upgraded or will they be to full with the Valley Line stock or a new purpose built somewhere say Swansea or Shrewsbury or even Crewe if there's any decent land available (or would that simply be just too much money to invest)?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I can understand that depot capacity will be an issue (given its a bigger fleet then the 175's) so again if there was a need for extra capacity (in the future) would they then have to provide another depot? Could Cardiff Canton be upgraded or will they be to full with the Valley Line stock or a new purpose built somewhere say Swansea or Shrewsbury or even Crewe if there's any decent land available (or would that simply be just too much money to invest)?

Eventually the 158s will go ?. Will that relieve enough depot/siding capacity on TfW ?. TBF I have read that Chester depot is simply not big enough. But the last time I looked there is spare land at the back of Chester depot currently home to a load of trees. That is to the North East corner of the depot but also between the triangular junction if they just wanted stabling space.

 

[Caaardiff]

I can understand that depot capacity will be an issue (given its a bigger fleet then the 175's) so again if there was a need for extra capacity (in the future) would they then have to provide another depot? Could Cardiff Canton be upgraded or will they be to full with the Valley Line stock or a new purpose built somewhere say Swansea or Shrewsbury or even Crewe if there's any decent land available (or would that simply be just too much money to invest)?

I'm not sure the cost of a new depot would be justified when ultimately TFW wouldn't need many more 197s to what they have now. Other options would need to be explored such as Canton and Holyhead.

Eventually the 153s would need to be replaced and who knows what will happen to 230s. I can see more 231s or even 756s taken on in the future to free up stock for other routes. Leaving the 197 numbers as they are.

 

[Jez]

Which service goes via the district line?

The 0604 Carmarthen to Manchester. I think its just on a Saturday and Monday.

 

[Bikeman78]

AFAIK Machynlleth guards sign SHR-BHI, but don't currently sign anything other than 158's.

The unit diagrams for BHI services all include work on the Cambrian too.

The units themselves are currently cleared for ECS moves on the route, the current test runs are - I think - for things like stopping positions and ASDO configuration.

Given the first two points above, I'd guess that it's unlikely (although certainly not impossible) to see 197s in passenger service on the line until the ETCS units start entering service on the Cambrian.

Once they are signed off, I give it two days tops before one goes to Birmingham. Class 150s to Birmingham were a daily occurrence during 2023 to 2024. It's easy to swap the Aberystwyth trains at Shrewsbury and bounce the non ERTMS units back to Birmingham.

 

[chrisjo]

I would be interested to hear from someone who is familiar with the 196s as to how their reliability during introduction and subsequently stacks up against the TfW experience with 197s so far.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I would be interested to hear from someone who is familiar with the 196s as to how their reliability during introduction and subsequently stacks up against the TfW experience with 197s so far.

That would be an interesting comparison. For the 196s the snag is they have not been a stretched fleet - Tyseley has a surplus currently. Perhaps the 195s might provide a better comparison as I vaguely recall Northern needed them to replace older trains ASAP.

 

[childwallblues]

According to RTT the 1F91 0637 Chester to Liverpool Lime Street today is ERMTS unit 197034. First day in service?

 

[Along the bay]

According to RTT the 1F91 0637 Chester to Liverpool Lime Street today is ERMTS unit 197034. First day in service?

No. I have seen and been on it a few times now. Think it's been in service at least a month.

 

[childwallblues]

No. I have seen and been on it a few times now. Think it's been in service at least a month.

OK probably the first time to Liverpool.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

No. I have seen and been on it a few times now. Think it's been in service at least a month.

OK probably the first time to Liverpool.

197034 entered service last Tuesday according to my records.

 

[sd0733]

197106+011 failed on last night's 18:30 from Manchester near Yorton blocking the line for several hours with major electrical faults on 197106 preventing it from being moved.
The following 19:30 from Manchester clocked up a delay of just over 6 hours arriving into Cardiff at 04:50 this morning.

 

[Anonymous10]

197106+011 failed on last night's 18:30 from Manchester near Yorton blocking the line for several hours with major electrical faults on 197106 preventing it from being moved.
The following 19:30 from Manchester clocked up a delay of just over 6 hours arriving into Cardiff at 04:50 this morning.

I shudder at the thought of having to sleep on a 197 over night....

 

[rich.davies]

I shudder at the thought of having to sleep on a 197 over night....

Why not terminate it, unless the unit had to be in Cardiff one way or another

 

[Topological]

197106+011 failed on last night's 18:30 from Manchester near Yorton blocking the line for several hours with major electrical faults on 197106 preventing it from being moved.
The following 19:30 from Manchester clocked up a delay of just over 6 hours arriving into Cardiff at 04:50 this morning.

That is worrying, it must be some electrical failure to happen whilst the train is running.

Hope the 19:30 was held in a station with toilets open.

It is something when the train arrives in Cardiff after the first northbound of the day has already left.

 

[Anonymous10]

Why not terminate it, unless the unit had to be in Cardiff one way or another

I hope they did to be honest. Like I say I like the 197s but I wouldn't be able to sleep on one.

 

[Broseley man]

I hope they did to be honest. Like I say I like the 197s but I wouldn't be able to sleep on one.

Does anyone know how the passengers on the train were helped to their final destinations? Were buses provided?

 

[Anonymous10]

Does anyone know how the passengers on the train were helped to their final destinations? Were buses provided?

Mad dash to the local Tesco to buy up all their blankets?

 

[rich.davies]

I hope they did to be honest. Like I say I like the 197s but I wouldn't be able to sleep on one.

Well the Swansea part was cancelled. I couldn't have imagined being on it

 

[Jez]

197106+011 failed on last night's 18:30 from Manchester near Yorton blocking the line for several hours with major electrical faults on 197106 preventing it from being moved.
The following 19:30 from Manchester clocked up a delay of just over 6 hours arriving into Cardiff at 04:50 this morning.

RTT is listing the unusual destination of Harlescott X for the 1830

Realtime Trains | 1830 Manchester Piccadilly to Harlescott X | 19/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 1830 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Harlescott X on 19/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is why I tend to book a days Annual Leave the following day if I travel back from somewhere late at night as I dont always trust them to get me home!

Hope the 19:30 was held in a station with toilets open.

You would hope road transport would have been provided for anyone on the 1930 to get them to a station further down and then complete the journey by train.

I hope they did to be honest. Like I say I like the 197s but I wouldn't be able to sleep on one.

I agree, as much as like the 197s I wouldnt be amused being stuck on one all night.

 

[sd0733]

RTT is listing the unusual destination of Harlescott X for the 1830

It did go to Shrewsbury arriving 504 minutes (8hrs 24) late!

You would hope road transport would have been provided for anyone on the 1930 to get them to a station further down and then complete the journey by train

A train was run in the path of the 20:30 from Manchester starting in Shrewsbury albeit very late to cover anyone stuck at stations. Hotels couldn't be sourced so the 19:30 ran on an overnight "request stop only" basis dropping off anyone who was onboard to get them home.

 

[Anonymous10]

It did go to Shrewsbury arriving 504 minutes (8hrs 24) late!


A train was run in the path of the 20:30 from Manchester starting in Shrewsbury albeit very late to cover anyone stuck at stations. Hotels couldn't be sourced so the 19:30 ran on an overnight "request stop only" basis dropping off anyone who was onboard to get them home.

*shudders* I hope this doesn't happen again.

 

[Newp410]

It did go to Shrewsbury arriving 504 minutes (8hrs 24) late!


A train was run in the path of the 20:30 from Manchester starting in Shrewsbury albeit very late to cover anyone stuck at stations. Hotels couldn't be sourced so the 19:30 ran on an overnight "request stop only" basis dropping off anyone who was onboard to get them home.

At no time were hotels offered to any of us on the train.

 

[Anonymous10]

At no time were hotels offered to any of us on the train.

One assumes they couldn't source any and thus didn't offer them out. Which is entirely reasonable not to give false hope. You do however have my condolences for spending so long stuck.

 

[sd0733]

197123 entered service on the 06:40 Llandudno Jcn to Llandudno this morning, making it back to Chester before being taken out of service with cab faults.

 

[Krokodil]

Well that was a good start then

 

[Jez]

197123 entered service on the 06:40 Llandudno Jcn to Llandudno this morning, making it back to Chester before being taken out of service with cab faults.

So are we up to 60 197s that are now in passenger service? And is it still 47 diagrams?

 

[tfw756rider]

So are we up to 60 197s that are now in passenger service? And is it still 47 diagrams?

I can't speak for diagrams, but it's now 60 197s that "have been in service", yes - 30 of 30 non-ETCS 2-car 197/0s, 5 of 21 ETCS-fitted 2-car 197/0s (197003/030/031/033/034), 12 of 12 2+2-only 3-car 197/1s and 13 of 14 "with 2+1" 3-car 197/1s (not 197126).

 

[sd0733]

So are we up to 60 197s that are now in passenger service? And is it still 47 diagrams?

Looks to be down to 46 diagrams this week.
24 2 car
22 3 car

3 car availability has to be miles higher than 2 so it's almost inevitable some will be 2v3