CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jez]

I can't speak for diagrams, but it's now 60 197s that "have been in service", yes - 30 of 30 non-ETCS 2-car 197/0s, 5 of 21 ETCS-fitted 2-car 197/0s (197003/030/031/033/034), 12 of 12 2+2-only 3-car 197/1s and 13 of 14 "with 2+1" 3-car 197/1s (not 197126).

Thanks

Looks to be down to 46 diagrams this week.
24 2 car
22 3 car

3 car availability has to be miles higher than 2 so it's almost inevitable some will be 2v3

Interesting. Thank you.

Its not the Borderlands thats finally switched to just 1 single 197 diagram thats caused it to drop to 46 diagrams?

that seems crazy there are so many 3 car diagrams when there are only 25 in service. Whilst there are 35 of the 2 cars and only 24 diagrams.

 

[Krokodil]

I was on a 158 vice 197/1 today so clearly things are still tight.

 

[animationmilo]

197101 still away
197106 now away from its failure Sunday
197107 not out much

 

[sd0733]

197101 still away
197106 now away from its failure Sunday
197107 not out much

Not too sure on 101 but 106 is now at Chester. 107 is at Chester but hasn't left in over a month since 15th December so really 3 cars need 22/22 at the moment.

Its not the Borderlands thats finally switched to just 1 single 197 diagram thats caused it to drop to 46 diagrams?

I believe borderlands still has 2 197s but that a west Wales diagram that starts and finishes at Canton and goes there in the afternoon went back to a pair of 153s.

 

[Anonymous10]

Not too sure on 101 but 106 is now at Chester. 107 is at Chester but hasn't left in over a month since 15th December so really 3 cars need 22/22 at the moment.


I believe borderlands still has 2 197s but that a west Wales diagram that starts and finishes at Canton and goes there in the afternoon went back to a pair of 153s.

What diagram went back to a pair of 153s? I'm curious.

 

[Jez]

What diagram went back to a pair of 153s? I'm curious.

I was wondering that myself. Usually its some of Swanline/Pembroke Dock diagrams that start and end in Canton. Some Milford's do but they usually end up going to Manchester which wouldnt be booked for 153s now I wouldnt think.

 

[sd0733]

What diagram went back to a pair of 153s? I'm curious

Seems to do an early Cardiff to Swansea and back before going onto Canton, then down to Fishguard and back to Carmarthen, empty to Swansea before working a late Swansea to Cardiff.

 

[nigelsporne]

I noticed that the evening service into Birmingham International from Holyhead is a 5 car set with a 158 and a 197. Is this the norm?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I noticed that the evening service into Birmingham International from Holyhead is a 5 car set with a 158 and a 197. Is this the norm?

Physically impossible (they can't couple), just going to be a data error.

 

[nigelsporne]

Ok thank you.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I noticed that the evening service into Birmingham International from Holyhead is a 5 car set with a 158 and a 197. Is this the norm?

That'll be a 197 allocated to what should be 158 diagram. It'll be swapped out before/when they're due to couple up.

 

[nigelsporne]

That'll be a 197 allocated to what should be 158 diagram. It'll be swapped out before/when they're due to couple up.

Looks like 197 from Holyhead to Shrewsbury then 158 from there as you stated. Rather inconvenient for any through passengers.

 

[Kite159]

I see 197036 is floating around Crewe with the plastic covers on the seats. Building up the mileage to get accepted?

 

[BillStampy]

197123 has seemingly snuck itself into service today, I only noticed when I was checking my options for a trip into Cardiff tomorrow just for it to show as allocated!

 

[Kite159]

197123 has seemingly snuck itself into service today, I only noticed when I was checking my options for a trip into Cardiff tomorrow just for it to show as allocated!

It popped into service earlier in the week, although got taken out of service after the first run at Chester due to a train fault.

I saw it being allocated to a Fishguard - Carmarthen/Swansea service so it must have been the one I saw as delayed when I was at Crewe waiting for 031+045.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I see 197036 is floating around Crewe with the plastic covers on the seats. Building up the mileage to get accepted?

197022 is our newest toy in Crewe at the moment.

 

[Jez]

On 197123 today I see the Standard Plus branding is still being put onto new units. I asked the guard who said the same thing that they didnt charge the upgrade fee due to the disabled requirements not being there. Then the catering staff member came through the train and asked would I like to sit in Standard Plus (i was in Standard class not standard plus) so i moved there! Ive noticed on 197s the catering staff tend to walk down the train asking customer if they want refreshments rather than bring the trolley through. Not sure if this is something that will change once the new trolleys are on board. They still use the same ATW trolleys I believe.

 

[Krokodil]

Not sure if it covers all depots but Chester and Shrewsbury are definitely using the new trolleys. I've seen at least one unit (one of the Cambrian ones) with a revised door for the cupboard. If/when they do actually get used it'll be interesting to see whether the steward will go through for orders or if passengers will place them through the unit WiFi.

Either way, I've come to the conclusion that D&A screening should apply to all grades, not just frontline ones. After all, whoever came up with these things must have been on something strong.

 

[WirralLine]

On 197123 today I see the Standard Plus branding is still being put onto new units. I asked the guard who said the same thing that they didnt charge the upgrade fee due to the disabled requirements not being there. Then the catering staff member came through the train and asked would I like to sit in Standard Plus (i was in Standard class not standard plus) so i moved there! Ive noticed on 197s the catering staff tend to walk down the train asking customer if they want refreshments rather than bring the trolley through. Not sure if this is something that will change once the new trolleys are on board. They still use the same ATW trolleys I believe.

Some catering depots use the new 197 trolleys (the black ones) but there's still Arriva teal trolleys knocking around too.

Speaking to the hosts they find it easier leaving the trolley somewhere with more space as the 197 aisles are quite narrow - particularly if you've got people sitting side by side with their elbows in the aisle. They often walk through offering refreshments then go to the trolley to get the order.

 

[50002Superb]

Looks like the driving car to 197101 is at Worksop. I saw it today in person but couldn’t confirm the number:

 

[Jez]

Some catering depots use the new 197 trolleys (the black ones) but there's still Arriva teal trolleys knocking around too.

Speaking to the hosts they find it easier leaving the trolley somewhere with more space as the 197 aisles are quite narrow - particularly if you've got people sitting side by side with their elbows in the aisle. They often walk through offering refreshments then go to the trolley to get the order.

Thanks for clarifying. I am mostly using 197s in the South so usually Newport or Carmarthen catering depots I think.

I believe the plan is to have at seat ordering on the app and get the refreshments delivered to your seat?

Not sure if it covers all depots but Chester and Shrewsbury are definitely using the new trolleys. I've seen at least one unit (one of the Cambrian ones) with a revised door for the cupboard. If/when they do actually get used it'll be interesting to see whether the steward will go through for orders or if passengers will place them through the unit WiFi.

Either way, I've come to the conclusion that D&A screening should apply to all grades, not just frontline ones. After all, whoever came up with these things must have been on something strong.

I believe the plan long term is customers will be able to order the refreshments and have them brought to the seat?

 

[tfw756rider]

...Either way, I've come to the conclusion that D&A screening should apply to all grades, not just frontline ones. After all, whoever came up with these things must have been on something strong.

(Drugs and alcohol screening, to save anyone else looking it up).

On 197123 today I see the Standard Plus branding is still being put onto new units.

Maybe the branding had already been applied to 197123 before the decision to scrap Standard Plus had been made? Surely it hasn't been applied after the fact, because that would be nonsense.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Looks like the driving car to 197101 is at Worksop. I saw it today in person but couldn’t confirm the number:

Interesting
I could not see the 197 vehicle BUT :-
What are those trams ?.
And what are those three shunters at 1m05s ?.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

What are those trams ?.

They look like Birmingham ones - guessing there isn't enough space for them all at Wednesbury until the line extensions open?

 

[87electric]

Interesting
I could not see the 197 vehicle BUT :-
What are those trams ?.
And what are those three shunters at 1m05s ?.

West Midlands Trams.

 

[tfw756rider]

Interesting
I could not see the 197 vehicle BUT :-
What are those trams ?.
And what are those three shunters at 1m05s ?.

I'd say the best views of the 197 vehicle in the video are at:

3:31 for the "non-cab" end (top-right)
and
4:12 for the cab end (middle-ish, to the left of the Mk1 behind the 37).

Also visible, at 5:27, is mostly the roof of the 197 vehicle (but closer-up) "behind" the Mk1 (top-right).

==============================

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8xq5eyjejdo

Longer trains set for popular commuter route​

(25/1/25)

Paul Rogers, Local Democracy Reporting Service, BBC News Shropshire

(The new trains, with more carriages, are expected to be introduced in the spring)

A rail operator is introducing new trains on a popular commuter route in a bid to reduce overcrowding on services.
New trains with more than two carriages, are expected to be added to line between Shrewsbury and Birmingham in the spring, Transport for Wales (TfW) said.
The increase was confirmed after the MP for Shrewsbury, Labour's Julia Buckley, told TfW bosses the service was unable to support the area's demand.
"It should be three carriages and we're only getting two. There's more people who need to get from Shrewsbury to Birmingham, or Wolverhampton every day and that is the service that is letting us down", she said.

"Top-end businesses are telling me they want to expand, invest and employ more people, but this is impossible until we get better services".
The trains will be introduced on the Cambrian line, which runs between the Midlands and the Welsh coast, as part of an £800m investment to transform rail services.
A spokesperson for TfW said: "Every effort is being made to get them into service to alleviate some of the crowding problems customers are seeing."
Buckley also called for services to be made more reliable.
"The amount of cancelled trains there are is not okay. The potential and demand is there, we just need the services", she said.
TfW said it had been "a challenging time on the line" and thanked customers for their patience.

For some reason, the article only mentions "new trains" and "the new trains", and doesn't explicitly mention 197s (a bit silly, as many articles now do refer to trains by their class numbers) and the photo is of a 158, but obviously when Paul says "new trains" / "the new trains", he means the 197s.

 

[50002Superb]

Interesting
I could not see the 197 vehicle BUT :-
What are those trams ?.
And what are those three shunters at 1m05s ?.

Five West Midlands Trams, apparently they have break issues, the only numbers I could get yesterday were 25, 27 and 29.

Not sure what the shunters are.

You can see them clearly if you walk up to the game but I was none the wiser.

 

[43096]

Five West Midlands Trams, apparently they have break issues, the only numbers I could get yesterday were 25, 27 and 29.

Brake issues? Or just generally broken?

 

[87electric]

The 3 blue shunters info. Credit to Defiance149 WNXX.
Jung-built R40C/R42C 0-6-0DH originally imported from Germany for Crossrail construction trains before being sold to HNRC.
Works No. 12347 of 1956, Crossrail No.2, R40C
Works No. 13286 of 1961, Crossrail No.4, R42C
Works No. 13289 of 1962, Crossrail No.1, R42C

 

[50002Superb]

Brake issues? Or just generally broken?

Apologies, was rushing out the door, brake issues with those five specifically was what I was told.