Cages in brake vans

[6Gman]

Okay, let me explain.

Walk through a BR Mark I Brake Second and when you walk along the side corridor and then into the brake section there's a mesh partition between where you walk and the parcel (etc) space.

I'd always assumed this was a longstanding practice but looking through some layout diagrams it appears that the LMS didn't have them and the SR only started with Bulleid.

So, when did the railway more generally start providing cages on such vehicles?

Bearing in mind how many multi-portioned trains there used to be it must have been a pain for passengers negotiating their way past parcels, boxes of fish or day old chicks etc etc when trying to get to the buffet car! And not very secure for any high value items.

 

[SargeNpton]

The cages were there to reduce the risk of theft of the unaccompanied luggage, parcels and mailbags en route. If the guard was not sitting in the brake then it would be expected that the cages would be locked shut (for mailbags especially).

Easier to walk through the remaining free space down one side of the brake van than it would be to clamber around a disorganised pile of luggage in an uncaged van (no different to negotiating the side corridor of campartment stock.

 

[Gloster]

Based on photos I have seen, station staff would load traffic for each station to whichever side of the van the doors were expected to be and the guard would similarly sort any traffic loaded en-route. Where possible train formations were formed so that heavily loaded vehicles were at one end or other of the train. Otherwise you would either have to traipse through the van or do without.

 

[Ashley Hill]

On non- corridor stock I suppose the lack of cage didn’t matter too much. Parcel/luggage vans were often marshalled at the rear of trains so the guard only had to lock the connecting door if leaving the coach. Perhaps the cages came about when through access was needed on corridor trains,the vans could then be marshalled anywhere. The Night Riviera Mk3s still had their cages until they were refurbished a few years ago.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I was a big fan of the old school brake vans, especially on crowded services (on SR commuter routes in particular) these were the last places many people wanted to be, so there was often space left to stand or even sit on the floor (thinking 4 Vep's when they retained their original large vans).

 

[Ashley Hill]

On busy branch line DMU services open vans like the 101s would be plagued with standing passengers. At least on 108s you could shut the cage and keep them out! I’m not unsociable (honest!)

 

[6Gman]

On busy branch line DMU services open vans like the 101s would be plagued with standing passengers. At least on 108s you could shut the cage and keep them out! I’m not unsociable (honest!)

I recall a Crewe-Derby DMU on the day of a Toton Open Day when I counted 30 in the brake van!

On non- corridor stock I suppose the lack of cage didn’t matter too much. Parcel/luggage vans were often marshalled at the rear of trains so the guard only had to lock the connecting door if leaving the coach. Perhaps the cages came about when through access was needed on corridor trains,the vans could then be marshalled anywhere. The Night Riviera Mk3s still had their cages until they were refurbished a few years ago.

Clearly it didn't matter on non-corridor stock, but if it is the case that cages didn't appear until the 1940s/1950s that's decades of insecure luggage and inconvenienced passengers.

And just to give a few examples of where it would arise (from the 1950s but I suspect it would have been similar pre-war):

1600 Glasgow-Leeds. Restaurant car and dining car were added at Kilmarnock and everyone had to pass through a Brake Third (BTK) to reach them.
1955 St Pancras-Nottingham. Had a BTK as the third of five passenger vehicles so walking through to look for a seat meant passing through the brake.
1840 St Pancras-Manchester. Restaurant car came off at Derby so Manchester passengers had to negotiate another BTK.
1833 St Pancras-Sheffield. The Restaurant car went through but was outside the front BTK, so again.
1645 Bristol-York. Restaurant car came off at Derby so ... well, you get the picture.

 

[Ken H]

These vans were great for cycles. It was when classic DMUs were running that free cycle carriage came in (you had to pay before that). But class 15x and 14x didnt have vans so cycles became problematic.

 

[Beebman]

I'd always assumed this was a longstanding practice but looking through some layout diagrams it appears that the LMS didn't have them and the SR only started with Bulleid.

I've been doing some research in my book collection and I've come up with the following (I've used the term 'partition' as a lack of photos means I can't confirm if they're cages as such).

I've a copy of 'LMS Coaches' by D.Jenkinson and R.J.Essery (OPC, 1977) and it would appear thar the LMS never used paritions, right up to and including the 'Porthole' stock of the late 1940s. As for the SR, I've a copy of 'An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches' by Mike King (OPC, 2003) and the first with partitions is the Bulleid Eastleigh built stock of 1946-1951.

For GWR it's a rather different matter. Looking at my copies of 'A Pictorial Record of Great Western Coaches' Parts 1 & 2 by J.H.Russell (OPC, 1972/3) the GWR did have brake vans with partitions from the side corridor going right back to the Milford Boat Sets of 1900.

As for LNER, the only book I have is 'Gresley's Coaches' by M.Russell (David & Charles, 1973). It has very few interior plans but there is a photo of the luggage compartment of a post-war corridor Brake Third and there is no partition.

 

[Gloster]

Ah, but that was all in the halcyon days when we had proper summers, white Christmases, policemen saluted car drivers and children could play hopscotch in the street. You could leave your front door open without a worry, so it was fine to leave all the parcels unattended on a train. The trouble is that there are people who think we can go back to those non-existant days.

 

[6Gman]

I've been doing some research in my book collection and I've come up with the following (I've used the term 'partition' as a lack of photos means I can't confirm if they're cages as such).

I've a copy of 'LMS Coaches' by D.Jenkinson and R.J.Essery (OPC, 1977) and it would appear thar the LMS never used paritions, right up to and including the 'Porthole' stock of the late 1940s. As for the SR, I've a copy of 'An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches' by Mike King (OPC, 2003) and the first with partitions is the Bulleid Eastleigh built stock of 1946-1951.

For GWR it's a rather different matter. Looking at my copies of 'A Pictorial Record of Great Western Coaches' Parts 1 & 2 by J.H.Russell (OPC, 1972/3) the GWR did have brake vans with partitions from the side corridor going right back to the Milford Boat Sets of 1900.

As for LNER, the only book I have is 'Gresley's Coaches' by M.Russell (David & Charles, 1973). It has very few interior plans but there is a photo of the luggage compartment of a post-war corridor Brake Third and there is no partition.

Thank you.

That seems to tie up with what I thought in regard to the LMS and SR. The GW seems to have been ahead of the game (much as it hurts me to say that ) and the LNER remains a mystery.

 

[Taunton]

On non- corridor stock I suppose the lack of cage didn’t matter too much. Parcel/luggage vans were often marshalled at the rear of trains so the guard only had to lock the connecting door if leaving the coach.

Maybe so, but on the Western Region (and doubtless GWR before) if any strengthening passenger vehicles were required, they were commonly just added to the rear, instead of all the hoo-hah of shunting them in mid-formation. By the 1960s expresses through Taunton were normally all Mk 1 stock, but in summer, at Christmas, etc, many had one or two additional Hawksworth 1949-era second class corridor vehicles added to the back.

Guards in those times commonly didn't leave their vans. That was what Travelling Ticket Collectors were for.

 

[Beebman]

On the subject of GWR coaches I've found some photos of Full Brake 276 built in 1945 being restored at the South Devon Railway:

https://www.southdevonrailwayassociation.org/Coach-276.html

The photos are not very big but it would appear that the corridor partition is made of wood.

 

[Ashley Hill]

That takes me back a bit,helping restore it from a tool van.