Caledonian Sleeper

[al78]

As a luxury hotel on wheels that offers a magical journey...

Which it isn't.

 

[Essexman]

I've postponed making bookings for a couple of trips due to the current reliability issues but have been looking this afternoon at booking for mid September. All services seem to be fairly busy and I won't go if I can't get a berth towards the middle of the coach. The option to change berths doesn't seem to be offered. Does anyone know if this is a temporary issue with CS website?

 

[Blindtraveler]

This problem seems to come and go. Possibly book by phone and they should be able to fix it for you as the price is no different

 

[paul1609]

How often does someone travel there on the Sleeper to do that? Once every couple of years?

I wonder what the usage to Carstairs is? Must be very low. If it's one or two a day if that, as I would suspect it is, then putting people in a taxi from either Carlisle or Edinburgh (depending if they prefer losing sleep or arriving later) would deal with it fine.

I'd imagine that 1 or 2 a year is more likely. If it was up to me I'd run the whole lowlander to Edinburgh and detach a portion for Glasgow there, Edinburgh has by far the majority of the traffic. I'd imagine during the festivals you could easily sell the whole train to Edinburgh.

 

[alistairlees]

I'd imagine that 1 or 2 a year is more likely. If it was up to me I'd run the whole lowlander to Edinburgh and detach a portion for Glasgow there, Edinburgh has by far the majority of the traffic. I'd imagine during the festivals you could easily sell the whole train to Edinburgh.

Almost no-one goes to Carstairs.

This problem seems to come and go. Possibly book by phone and they should be able to fix it for you as the price is no different

I've postponed making bookings for a couple of trips due to the current reliability issues but have been looking this afternoon at booking for mid September. All services seem to be fairly busy and I won't go if I can't get a berth towards the middle of the coach. The option to change berths doesn't seem to be offered. Does anyone know if this is a temporary issue with CS website?

It should be back again soon. Possibly this week but, if not, next week.

 

[AberdeenBill]

I have a booking for Aberdeen at end of September but given the recent issues with staff shortages i am not confident that there is more than a 50% chance of this going. Neither COVID absences or the overtime ban are going to go away anytime soon. Whilst CS now appear to be cancelling for a week and notifying accordingly they must have a good idea of the longer term lookahead and it would be good if notice could be given at about T-3 to allow the opportunity to make other arrangements without resorting to last minute non availability or premium prices. I will still go, but my alternative would be to take the Lowlander to Edinburgh and an early morning train to ABD, although by the time it is cancelled the Lowlander will probably be full. Alternative I could take a 6pm ish 'day' train from Kings Cross to Edinburgh, stay overnight there and get a morning train to ABD. Unless anybody has a better idea (apart from flying)?

 

[Merseysider]

I'd imagine that 1 or 2 a year is more likely. If it was up to me I'd run the whole lowlander to Edinburgh and detach a portion for Glasgow there, Edinburgh has by far the majority of the traffic. I'd imagine during the festivals you could easily sell the whole train to Edinburgh.

I too doubt there are many passengers wanting to get off at Carstairs at 0614. Dropping the stop and giving them a free ticket on (eg) the 0742 EDB - CRS 0810 would probably inconvenience next to nobody, and is certainly what I’d do anyway if I wanted Carstairs.

 

[HST274]

Just a quick trip report from last Tuesday. I was travelling up to corrour and started off good, with early boarding. The room was good and comfortable if a little tight and the ensuite was nice, the shower having hot water and good pressure. Onto catering the dining car was open allowing me to enjoy a hot chocolate and slightly small but satisfying breakfast. The sleep was admittedly not that good but I don't sleep well in new beds and a train is a train though the rattling could be cushioned a tad.

Overall though a great experience and will do again!

 

[Ianno87]

I too doubt there are many passengers wanting to get off at Carstairs at 0614. Dropping the stop and giving them a free ticket on (eg) the 0742 EDB - CRS 0810 would probably inconvenience next to nobody, and is certainly what I’d do anyway if I wanted Carstairs.

One would think there'd be an efficency to be had in employing only one set of shunting crew at Edinburgh, rather than at both Edinburgh and Carstairs.

The challenge would be whether the Glasgow arrival time could be maintained with an Edinburgh split - a later arrival may not be platform-able.

Plus the politics of "preferring" Edinburgh over Glasgow...

 

[Journeyman]

One would think there'd be an efficency to be had in employing only one set of shunting crew at Edinburgh, rather than at both Edinburgh and Carstairs.

They only have one crew anyway, they travel between sites.

 

[Falcon1200]

Edinburgh has by far the majority of the traffic

That surprises me somewhat, because on the regular occasions I have been at Glasgow Central when 1S26 arrives, quite a few folk alight from it ! If Edinburgh was so much busier than Glasgow, would the train not run say 12 coaches to the former and 4 to the latter from Carstairs, instead of 8 and 8 as at present ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One would think there'd be an efficency to be had in employing only one set of shunting crew at Edinburgh, rather than at both Edinburgh and Carstairs.

If they had thought it through and ordered the coaches as haulable EMUs with hotel power generators and full auto couplers on the locos they could have had none, of course.

Would have meant a 2 portion Highlander, but Aberdeen was already in seemingly terminal decline when they were ordered, wasn't it?

I think Mr Stadler might just have just what they needed

 

[paul1609]

That surprises me somewhat, because on the regular occasions I have been at Glasgow Central when 1S26 arrives, quite a few folk alight from it ! If Edinburgh was so much busier than Glasgow, would the train not run say 12 coaches to the former and 4 to the latter from Carstairs, instead of 8 and 8 as at present ?

I've never used the lowlander southbound but Northbound the Glasgow portion is busy on Thursdays and Friday nights but has space the rest of the week. It's been like that since the WCML modernisation was complete when in my experience the Glasgow loadings declined. The Edinburgh section is often full because of the much higher number of tourists.

 

[sciisfun]

Im looking at booking a trip to Fort William in October, is the connection fairly reliable for the Jacobite?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Im looking at booking a trip to Fort William in October, is the connection fairly reliable for the Jacobite?

In short...not really! I'd take the afternoon one if I were you.

 

[sciisfun]

In short...not really! I'd take the afternoon one if I were you.

thats a shame, theres no afternoon trains when we're traveling, I'll just plan to do it on a regular service, and if we make it in time pay cash if theres spaces

 

[MrEd]

Im looking at booking a trip to Fort William in October, is the connection fairly reliable for the Jacobite?

I would not rely on it at all I’m afraid. If you definitely want to catch the morning Jacobite, and this is an essential part of your trip, you’re better off travelling up the previous day and staying overnight in Fort William.

 

[adrock1976]

I am using the sleeper tonight between Falkirk Grahamston and Crewe.

I already know what is on the section between Inverness and Edinburgh (66789+73968), but does anybody know what the 92 is south of Edinburgh please?

This is in case if I am still asleep and forget to check the front when arriving at Crewe.

 

[_toommm_]

I am using the sleeper tonight between Falkirk Grahamston and Crewe.

I already know what is on the section between Inverness and Edinburgh (66789+73968), but does anybody know what the 92 is south of Edinburgh please?

This is in case if I am still asleep and forget to check the front when arriving at Crewe.

RTT will update with the loco allocation when the 92 is put into the system.

 

[adrock1976]

RTT will update with the loco allocation when the 92 is put into the system.

Thank you very much.

 

[43096]

If they had thought it through and ordered the coaches as haulable EMUs with hotel power generators and full auto couplers on the locos they could have had none, of course.

Would have meant a 2 portion Highlander, but Aberdeen was already in seemingly terminal decline when they were ordered, wasn't it?

But that wasn't the franchise specification was it? All very well - and very easy - being wise after the event, but the franchise was awarded in May 2014, so bidding documents would have gone out in 2013. Was the Aberdeen in "terminal decline" back then? I suspect not.

You're also assuming you can get an 8-car set up the West Highland - I think it would be too long for the loops. So you either need to shorten all the sets or you have sub-fleets of different lengths. The flexibility to alter train lengths is also then permanently gone. That leads to the conclusion that locomotive haulage was the right option.

 

[6Z09]

But that wasn't the franchise specification was it? All very well - and very easy - being wise after the event, but the franchise was awarded in May 2014, so bidding documents would have gone out in 2013. Was the Aberdeen in "terminal decline" back then? I suspect not.

You're also assuming you can get an 8-car set up the West Highland - I think it would be too long for the loops. So you either need to shorten all the sets or you have sub-fleets of different lengths. The flexibility to alter train lengths is also then permanently gone. That leads to the conclusion that locomotive haulage was the right option.

Is it not the case that 8 coaches and two locomotives ( 66+73) are currently forming the Fort William portion?
The loops must be coping with that.

 

[Falcon1200]

One overlength train on the WHL is manageable, the problems arise when there are two, going in opposite directions, at the same time ! (They can still cross but it takes a lot of shunting, uncoupling and coupling, and would not be countenanced in normal circumstances).

 

[Bill57p9]

Is it not the case that 8 coaches and two locomotives ( 66+73) are currently forming the Fort William portion?
The loops must be coping with that.

WHL platforms are limited to 6x23m (with some shorter, notably Corrour). The overall train length can be a little longer and still fit in the loop. The current 2+6 sleeper arrangement must fit in the loops just fine as the northbound passes the Alcan tanks at Tulloch and they are definitely too long for the loop.

 

[adrock1976]

I am using the sleeper tonight between Falkirk Grahamston and Crewe.

I already know what is on the section between Inverness and Edinburgh (66789+73968), but does anybody know what the 92 is south of Edinburgh please?

This is in case if I am still asleep and forget to check the front when arriving at Crewe.

RTT will update with the loco allocation when the 92 is put into the system.

The 92 was 010 for the Edinburgh - London section.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They only have one crew anyway, they travel between sites.

How do the shunting crew travel from Carstairs to Edinburgh and back? Does the loco that takes the Edinburgh portions to and from Carstairs run light engine back to Edinburgh in between, and if so do the shunting crew ride with it?

Actually (more complicated question) how many class 92s are actually used every night? As far as I can see, it could be done with six,

1. ECS Highlander stock Wembley to Euston, then Lowlander Euston to Glasgow
2. Lowlander Glasgow to Euston, then ECS Highlander stock Euston to Wembley
3. ECS Polmadie to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Carstairs, light to Edinburgh, Highlander Edinburgh to Euston
4. Highlander Euston to Edinburgh, light to Carstairs, Carstairs to Edinburgh, ECS Edinburgh to Polmadie
5. ECS Polmadie to Glasgow, and back in the morning
6. ECS Lowlander stock Wembley to Euston, and back in the morning

but I'm fairly sure there are more - for example in my experience both Highlander and Lowlander ECS runs to/from Wembley have a loco on each end, rather than using the loco from the first arrival, after release from the stops, to take the second departure. Also, if one loco works both Edinburgh Carstairs and return, that has to be additional to the two working the Highlander.

 

[43096]

How do the shunting crew travel from Carstairs to Edinburgh and back? Does the loco that takes the Edinburgh portions to and from Carstairs run light engine back to Edinburgh in between, and if so do the shunting crew ride with it?

Actually (more complicated question) how many class 92s are actually used every night? As far as I can see, it could be done with six,

1. ECS Highlander stock Wembley to Euston, then Lowlander Euston to Glasgow
2. Lowlander Glasgow to Euston, then ECS Highlander stock Euston to Wembley
3. ECS Polmadie to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Carstairs, light to Edinburgh, Highlander Edinburgh to Euston
4. Highlander Euston to Edinburgh, light to Carstairs, Carstairs to Edinburgh, ECS Edinburgh to Polmadie
5. ECS Polmadie to Glasgow, and back in the morning
6. ECS Lowlander stock Wembley to Euston, and back in the morning

but I'm fairly sure there are more - for example in my experience both Highlander and Lowlander ECS runs to/from Wembley have a loco on each end, rather than using the loco from the first arrival, after release from the stops, to take the second departure. Also, if one loco works both Edinburgh Carstairs and return, that has to be additional to the two working the Highlander.

Generally I think it’s 7 diagrams:
- Down Highland ECS, down Lowland
- Down Highland
- Down Lowland ECS (PM), up Lowland ECS (AM)
- Up Lowland, Up Highland ECS
- Up Highland
- Edinburgh portion incl ECS from/to Polmadie
- Glasgow portion ECS loco

 

[alangla]

It might be more as there’s also some odd light 92 runs via the E&G and Carmyle in the small hours. These don’t always run though.

 

[LeylandLen]

There is a problem with 92010 due to haul 1S25 from Euston. That loco now detached , parked in spare platform as OS95
Replacement loco awaited from Wembley, so I am told.

 

[Bill57p9]

Highlander departed Euston 2337, 140 late with 92033 in charge.
92043 hauled the stock in from Wembley and is due to haul the down Lowlander. Given that was released late, likely delay to Lowlander too.