Caledonian Sleeper

[Steve Harris]

Is anything due the other way round when the passenger is told to take an earlier Scotrail service from Glasgow to Edinburgh, given they arrive on time into Euston?

See post #10,970 on page 366 where this matter has already been discussed/debated.

 

[island]

Ref. Showers are available at Penzance & Truro Sleeper lounges and also Paddington (Network Rail)

Assuming they aren't locked up "due to COVID"...

 

[6Z09]

Fort William southbound passengers on Sunday night apparently got a lovely surprise midnight bus trip from Dalmuir to Edinburgh!
What was this all about?

 

[Highlandspring]

Fort William southbound passengers on Sunday night apparently got a lovely surprise midnight bus trip from Dalmuir to Edinburgh!
What was this all about?

TM no route knowledge of the booked diversion via the Benhar road.

 

[D6130]

TM no route knowledge of the booked diversion via the Benhar road.

...and no ScotRail conductors available to hire in due to the ongoing work-to-rule.

 

[MotCO]

TM no route knowledge of the booked diversion via the Benhar road.

I know rules are rules etc, but how important is a TM's route knowledge (asked as a non railway person)? I get that drivers need to know the route, but why does a TM if the train does not make any stops there. Is it in case there is an incident and s/he has to summon help, but surely there are a number of other staff on board who may know where they are at any particular time. I'm trying to understand why it is necessary to get passengers out of bed early.

 

[D6130]

I know rules are rules etc, but how important is a TM's route knowledge (asked as a non railway person)? I get that drivers need to know the route, but why does a TM if the train does not make any stops there. Is it in case there is an incident and s/he has to summon help, but surely there are a number of other staff on board who may know where they are at any particular time. I'm trying to understand why it is necessary to get passengers out of bed early.

Surely this just highlights the stupidity of hiving off the sleeper franchise from ScotRail. There's now no chance of traincrew cross-cover for route conducting duties, let alone cross-cover for regular diagrams via the booked route.

 

[800001]

1S26 Euston to Edinburgh this evening, shortage of staff, so lounge car service not available, can order to room but full product range not available.

 

[MrEd]

I know rules are rules etc, but how important is a TM's route knowledge (asked as a non railway person)? I get that drivers need to know the route, but why does a TM if the train does not make any stops there. Is it in case there is an incident and s/he has to summon help, but surely there are a number of other staff on board who may know where they are at any particular time. I'm trying to understand why it is necessary to get passengers out of bed early.

The sleeper hosts do not need to sign a route card, so the train manager will be the only safety-critical person with route knowledge which is essential in case of an incident (the locomotive may have become parted from the train, passengers might need to be detrained, the driver might be incapacitated; the TM needs to know exactly where the train is and what hazards are along the route/where the nearest station is). There could even be an incident whereby the driver fails to brake for a speed restriction or the brake pipe becomes isolated from the locomotive (as happened in August 2019 at Waverley); if the guard knows exactly where the train is he can put the brake in and potentially avert a very serious accident (the TM was praised for doing so in the RAIB report from August 2019). If the TM has no route knowledge, this effectively renders the service driver-only operated (DOO). Locomotive-hauled trains are not permitted to run DOO with passengers on board for these very reasons.

 

[MadMac]

The sleeper hosts do not need to sign a route card, so the train manager will be the only safety-critical person with route knowledge which is essential in case of an incident (the locomotive may have become parted from the train, passengers might need to be detrained, the driver might be incapacitated; the TM needs to know exactly where the train is and what hazards are along the route/where the nearest station is). There could even be an incident whereby the driver fails to brake for a speed restriction or the brake pipe becomes isolated from the locomotive (as happened in August 2019 at Waverley); if the guard knows exactly where the train is he can put the brake in and potentially avert a very serious accident (the TM was praised for doing so in the RAIB report from August 2019). If the TM has no route knowledge, this effectively renders the service driver-only operated (DOO). Locomotive-hauled trains are not permitted to run DOO with passengers on board for these very reasons.

I'm interested in the "mechanics" of this. Presumably, this was a pre-planned diversion, so the operators would have known that staffing with the appropriate route knowledge was needed. Did they decide to run it in the hope that some sort of coverage would magically appear en route?

 

[800001]

I'm interested in the "mechanics" of this. Presumably, this was a pre-planned diversion, so the operators would have known that staffing with the appropriate route knowledge was needed. Did they decide to run it in the hope that some sort of coverage would magically appear en route?

Mistakes happen

 

[185143]

Surely this just highlights the stupidity of hiving off the sleeper franchise from ScotRail. There's now no chance of traincrew cross-cover for route conducting duties, let alone cross-cover for regular diagrams via the booked route.

Be careful what you wish for! It almost certainly wouldn't have ran at all if it was ScotRail with the current Industrial Action...

 

[MotCO]

The sleeper hosts do not need to sign a route card, so the train manager will be the only safety-critical person with route knowledge which is essential in case of an incident (the locomotive may have become parted from the train, passengers might need to be detrained, the driver might be incapacitated; the TM needs to know exactly where the train is and what hazards are along the route/where the nearest station is). There could even be an incident whereby the driver fails to brake for a speed restriction or the brake pipe becomes isolated from the locomotive (as happened in August 2019 at Waverley); if the guard knows exactly where the train is he can put the brake in and potentially avert a very serious accident (the TM was praised for doing so in the RAIB report from August 2019). If the TM has no route knowledge, this effectively renders the service driver-only operated (DOO). Locomotive-hauled trains are not permitted to run DOO with passengers on board for these very reasons.

Thanks - it all makes sense now, particulary the DOO aspect.

 

[williamn]

Off to Glasgow Edinburgh tonight. Have been advised by CS that departure will be at the earlier time of 23.40, but RTT still says 23.50. Which is correct?

 

[MadMac]

Mistakes happen

I’m retired BR, I know

 

[JonathanH]

Off to Glasgow Edinburgh tonight. Have been advised by CS that departure will be at the earlier time of 23.40, but RTT still says 23.50. Which is correct?

The time that CS want people aboard the train isn't necessarily the same as its actual departure time - eg if they advertise the train as departing at 2340, it would not be unreasonable for them to lock the doors at that time for physical departure at 2350.

 

[800001]

Off to Glasgow Edinburgh tonight. Have been advised by CS that departure will be at the earlier time of 23.40, but RTT still says 23.50. Which is correct?

I was on it last night, advertised as 2350, departed at that time

 

[Garmoran]

A taxi can be sent from Pitlochry to Rannoch (reaching the station by road from Fort William requires a substantial detour) but I don’t think that any taxi can go to Corrour - it cannot be accessed from any public road, only private estate tracks (which may only be passable by 4x4s). I wonder if a 4x4 vehicle can be sent to extract folk from Corrour at times of service disruption (if there is absolutely no train at all)? Otherwise I wouldn’t know what to do.

A couple of years ago I was told by a taxi-driver who had just taken passengers to and from a function at Corrour (in a 9 seater van) that the estate track was smoother than the main road. However, it is a private road so I suspect that this will lead Scotrail to regard it as off-limits.

 

[Bald Rick]

A couple of years ago I was told by a taxi-driver who had just taken passengers to and from a function at Corrour (in a 9 seater van) that the estate track was smoother than the main road.

He was pulling your leg, because it definitely isn’t!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Fort William southbound passengers on Sunday night apparently got a lovely surprise midnight bus trip from Dalmuir to Edinburgh!
What was this all about?

That is amazing. I understand why but.... The average passenger would have been livid if they were turfed out onto a bus just to re enter the same sleeping compartment a bit later at a different location !. What sort of explanationon, other than the truth, could be given ?. The truthful explanation would be a very very bad advert for the railways in the eyes of joe public.

 

[AberdeenBill]

That is amazing. I understand why but.... The average passenger would have been livid if they were turfed out onto a bus just to re enter the same sleeping compartment a bit later at a different location !. What sort of explanationon, other than the truth, could be given ?. The truthful explanation would be a very very bad advert for the railways in the eyes of joe public.

I wonder if they were able to leave all their luggage etc in their locked compartment and then simply rejoin further down the line.

 

[al78]

He was pulling your leg, because it definitely isn’t!

I'd be most surprised if it was. When I stayed in Aviemore and used my folding bike to get around, even the B roads had a good surface, certainly put the roads of Sussex and Surrey to shame.

 

[williamn]

Just woken up on board after a decent nights sleep.

interesting overheard conversations in the lounge car last night with two couples who hadn’t been on before, both of whom couldn’t believe how cheap it was - so this forums perception of price may well be very different to the travelling public’s!

 

[6Z09]

Just woken up on board after a decent nights sleep.

interesting overheard conversations in the lounge car last night with two couples who hadn’t been on before, both of whom couldn’t believe how cheap it was - so this forums perception of price may well be very different to the travelling public’s!

More money than sense??

 

[Bald Rick]

More money than sense??

Plenty of that around, witness those who pay for expensive rail tours, or buy a BMW X6, or build a station at Reston.

 

[williamn]

I suspect it was a case of people thinking of a sleeper as being like the Orient Express, then finding the reality is a bit more utilitarian and therefore cheaper than that! They also said the price compared favourably with the day train.

They were all totally thrilled and incredibly excited about it all, which was rather lovely!

 

[Unstoppable]

Ex Inverness Sleeper blocked the single line tonight north of Aviemore. Showing as an hour late. Terminated at Aviemore?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Odia. Loco failure I assume?

 

[GordonT]

Ex Inverness Sleeper blocked the single line tonight north of Aviemore. Showing as an hour late. Terminated at Aviemore?

169L leaving Kingussie. Fielding 2x73s rather than 1x66+1x73 not such a good plan?

 

[John Bishop]

169L leaving Kingussie. Fielding 2x73s rather than 1x66+1x73 not such a good plan?

Yep, those pesky 73s strike again!

Still running 134L now not long left Preston.