Caledonian Sleeper

[Tetragon213]

Given the amount of subsidy it swallows already (part of which comes from my Scottish taxes!) it is unreasonable to expect Caledonian Sleepers to have a spare loco, and Drivers - probably two at least - standing by at Edinburgh and elsewhere just in case one portion is delayed en route, so that it could run independently. Most of the time it would not be needed.

I find it weird that they are so heavily subsidised from taxes, and yet still charge so much!

 

[JamieL]

I find it weird that they are so heavily subsidised from taxes, and yet still charge so much!

The same could be said about the entirety of the UK railway network!

 

[godfreycomplex]

I find it weird that they are so heavily subsidised from taxes, and yet still charge so much!

Not that I'm trying to excuse that or anything, but even absolutely full a 16 car sleeper has not much more than 200 people on. And 60 of them are in the seats. That'd be less than a third full on an 11 car Pendolino. Add to that all the various ancillary costs and it's not a cheap operation.

 

[Bald Rick]

I find it weird that they are so heavily subsidised from taxes, and yet still charge so much!

Well, sleepers are very expensive to operate. Special rolling stock, with low capacity, that needs lots of crew (working night shifts) and servicing, used for one trip a day.

 

[Class15]

Not that I'm trying to excuse that or anything, but even absolutely full a 16 car sleeper has not much more than 200 people on. And 60 of them are in the seats. That'd be less than a third full on an 11 car Pendolino. Add to that all the various ancillary costs and it's not a cheap operation.

How are the seating maths working there? Just over 12 people a coach seems a little pessimistic to me, particularly considering that some are seating coaches.

 

[godfreycomplex]

How are the seating maths working there? Just over 12 people a coach seems a little pessimistic to me, particularly considering that some are seating coaches.

31 max in each seating coach. No passengers in each lounge car. 10 compartments in each sleeping coach, with 6 in PRM coaches. And not all of them are going to be double occupancy.

 

[Bald Rick]

How are the seating maths working there? Just over 12 people a coach seems a little pessimistic to me, particularly considering that some are seating coaches.

Typical formation has 9 sleepers with 10 cabins and 3 with 6 cabins, plus 2 seated coaches with 62 people between them (and 2 x bar cars). So the absolute maximum number of passengers is 216 in the beds and 62 seated, ie 278.

However, obviously, not all the cabins are taken by two people. And not all the cabins or seats (especially) are taken. And sometimes the trains don’t run at full length, whether that be because of planned engineering works (as is happening this weekend) or shortage of coaches (as has been happening for months).

 

[Tetragon213]

The same could be said about the entirety of the UK railway network!

Quite! It's always "demand outstrips supply", and yet the TOCs ask for ever larger subsidies while upcharging and downservicing...

Not that I'm trying to excuse that or anything, but even absolutely full a 16 car sleeper has not much more than 200 people on. And 60 of them are in the seats. That'd be less than a third full on an 11 car Pendolino. Add to that all the various ancillary costs and it's not a cheap operation.

Well, sleepers are very expensive to operate. Special rolling stock, with low capacity, that needs lots of crew (working night shifts) and servicing, used for one trip a day.

The Night Riviera runs on Diesel for the whole journey with the same limitations, and yet I paid about 2/3rds of Cally's fare for a room on the Riviera! GWR's offering included lounge access, free hot drinks, and breakfast in the fare, as opposed to a £10 fee for "continental breakfast" (which in my experience is code for "no-name pastry with no-name yoghurt and no-name jam").

I've heard you can pay another fee of £5 for shower access at Euston on the Cally? Iirc it was mentioned elsewhere on the forums, but I can't find any note of it on Cally's promotional material.

 

[enginedin]

I've heard you can pay another fee of £5 for shower access at Euston on the Cally?

During Your Trip

Read our Help and Support pages for everything you need to know while travelling with Caledonian Sleeper, including our hints and tips and all information about our accommodation.

www.sleeper.scot

> Guests arriving at Fort William, Inverness and London Euston can purchase a shower token for £10 from our on-board teams and showers are available on arrival.

as opposed to a £10 fee for "continental breakfast"

or, full Scottish included for passengers in a "club" room

 

[Tetragon213]

During Your Trip

Read our Help and Support pages for everything you need to know while travelling with Caledonian Sleeper, including our hints and tips and all information about our accommodation.

www.sleeper.scot

> Guests arriving at Fort William, Inverness and London Euston can purchase a shower token for £10 from our on-board teams and showers are available on arrival.


or, full Scottish included for passengers in a "club" room

£10? Jeez...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Night Riviera runs on Diesel for the whole journey with the same limitations, and yet I paid about 2/3rds of Cally's fare for a room on the Riviera! GWR's offering included lounge access, free hot drinks, and breakfast in the fare, as opposed to a £10 fee for "continental breakfast" (which in my experience is code for "no-name pastry with no-name yoghurt and no-name jam").

The Night Riviera, however, does not split into portions / join up portions en route each requiring a separate locomotive and driver plus and additional staff to handle or supervise the shunting movements caused by splitting does it? The Caledonian is a rather more complex operation.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Isn’t the supply and reliability of the loco’s GBRF’s problem, if theirs is a requirement for spare loco’s and crew it’s down to them!

Caledonian Sleeper pay GBRF for the traction, if there’s loco isn’t up to the job (defective) it’s GBRF that are contracted and therefore they should be the ones to have the standby loco and staff available.

Depends whether you are referring to the original failure (in the middle of nowhere) or the possibility of running the late ex Fort William service as an extra all the way to London.