Calmac / Northlink Ferry discussion

[Russel]

....but that there are serious questions over whether it even makes sense to risk Caledonian Isles in Ardrossan. Either way, with Ardrossan no longer being usable once Glen Rosa is launched, it might even make more sense to simply move to Troon now and accept that Ardrossan is finished as a CalMac port.

What is it about Ardrossan that is a risk to the Caledonian Isles?

 

[Cloud Strife]

What is it about Ardrossan that is a risk to the Caledonian Isles?

Generally speaking, the difficult entry to the port, combined with the fact that she can't use the Irish berth anymore. Caledonian Isles is already in poor condition, and an accident in Ardrossan could put her out of service for another extended period of time. Having said that, I suspect that the crews will be diverting to Troon rather than risk difficult berthing maneuvers.

 

[Christmas]

Does anyone envisage the Alfred geing taken into the Calmac fleet permanently? If not, why not? Pentland I'm sure would be over the moon.

 

[Southsider]

Does anyone envisage the Alfred geing taken into the Calmac fleet permanently? If not, why not? Pentland I'm sure would be over the moon.

I believe it’s going back in March, coinciding with the return of Caledonian Isles.

 

[Gwr12345]

Any plans for the Campbelltown route to be restored for the summer?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Does anyone envisage the Alfred geing taken into the Calmac fleet permanently? If not, why not? Pentland I'm sure would be over the moon.

Most probably not, as I believe she failed her berthing trials at many ports. She can do Brodick-Troon, but this offers nothing over Caledonian Isles doing Brodick-Ardrossan.

Having said that, Pentland Ferries must be absolutely delighted with the fact that they've effectively got her for free as a result of the CalMac charter. If she works out on the Pentland Firth in the next couple of years, I could see Pentland Ferries ordering another Alfred and making a serious attempt to knock Northlink out of the market. Andrew Banks is a shrewd operator, they own their terminals, and they've proven beyond doubt that Alfred's design can work in Scottish waters despite CMAL claiming otherwise.

Any plans for the Campbelltown route to be restored for the summer?

Hard to say right now. If Isle of Arran can hold up, I could see a lot of value in her operating a summer service from Ardrossan to Campbeltown via Brodick.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The petland ferry situation is one that I and doubtless others are watching with a great deal of interest. Alfred is certainly paid for now and whilst on the one hand I should imagine they're pretty cheesed off that she's hardly ever been able to operate on her intended route on the other. As you say it's given Scottish shipping both in the far north and on the West coast. A good bit of a shake and northlink had probably better be watching what they're doing going forward as whilst their service is subsidised and would run regardless of anyone was actually booked on it. There's still no getting away from the fact that they're offering from stromness outside of the extremely high summer season is far from brilliant in terms of number of sailings offered and the timings have said sailings. Andrew Banks could indeed cause some serious trouble if he wanted to with another Alfred sized vessel

 

[Southsider]

The petland ferry situation is one that I and doubtless others are watching with a great deal of interest. Alfred is certainly paid for now and whilst on the one hand I should imagine they're pretty cheesed off that she's hardly ever been able to operate on her intended route on the other. As you say it's given Scottish shipping both in the far north and on the West coast. A good bit of a shake and northlink had probably better be watching what they're doing going forward as whilst their service is subsidised and would run regardless of anyone was actually booked on it. There's still no getting away from the fact that they're offering from stromness outside of the extremely high summer season is far from brilliant in terms of number of sailings offered and the timings have said sailings. Andrew Banks could indeed cause some serious trouble if he wanted to with another Alfred sized vessel

One slight drawback of Alfred and Pentalina is that they are not drive through meaning it can take a while to get freight vehicles aboard. I don’t know why they are designed like this but there are similar vessels which are drive through, for example Fred Olsen operate this in the Canary Islands.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Suspect he might bear this in mind should he order anything else to have a serious good bash at the scrabster run

 

[route101]

Is Alfred still on the Arran route? I do want to sample Alfred at some point.

 

[Buzby]

If I was to travel over to Arran, would a foot passenger return allow me to go out via Ardrossan and back via Troon?

They only seem to work on Singles now - also they announced to sailings to/from Ardrossan until late March. Since the fare is the same whichever port you use, you would need to switch the booking, but won’t pay anything extra to do so.

Is Alfred still on the Arran route? I do want to sample Alfred at some point.

Yes - I wanted an Alfred/Sannox return but high winds put paid to that!

 

[Transilien]

Is there any timescale on Glen Rosa entering service?

Great joined up thinking from two nationalised operators there.

Calmac, Scotrail and Northlink should really be integrated under one company in my opinion

 

[Buzby]

Calmac, Scotrail and Northlink should really be integrated under one company in my opinion

Like Great British Rail? Well, since the first two are owned by ScotGov, only Northlink is the fly in the ointment!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well to all intents and purposes, the Northern isles service is simply another government contract, the fact that it has been privatised is of little consequence. If we're talking about integration with railways. It wouldn't be difficult to integrate but everybody seems happy to let it run under the existing arrangements

 

[Russel]

They only seem to work on Singles now - also they announced to sailings to/from Ardrossan until late March. Since the fare is the same whichever port you use, you would need to switch the booking, but won’t pay anything extra to do so.

Thanks, I hadn't paid much attention to prices, in my head they were like train fares where it's about 5p more for the return! If only!

 

[Transilien]

It wouldn't be difficult to integrate but everybody seems happy to let it run under the existing arrangements

Just because it works now doen't mean that it could be better. Intergrated ticketing/ coordantated timetables between ferries and land public transport could really boost Island connectivity for people without cars.

Also, to avoid something like the ferries scandal, an arms length organisation overseeing all public transport in Scotland could be set up to prevent Scottish government meddling in public transport and therefore give local authorities (i.e. islanders) increased control over their ferry services to meet their needs.

 

[43055]

Is there any timescale on Glen Rosa entering service?

I think on one of the Glen Sannox articles in the last week it said that the was due to be completed around September, so will probably be towards the end of the year for entering service.

 

[Transilien]

I think on one of the Glen Sannox articles in the last week it said that the was due to be completed around September, so will probably be towards the end of the year for entering service.

That's good news, hopefully it won't be delayed (it probably will be!).

 

[Albaman]

Is Alfred still on the Arran route? I do want to sample Alfred at some point.

According to the Caledonian MacBrayne website , it is operating between Troon and Brodick until 9 February and then from 18 February to 27 March 2025, inclusive.

 

[Struner]

yearly maintenance visit to a dock most probably

 

[Blindtraveler]

Just because it works now doen't mean that it could be better. Intergrated ticketing/ coordantated timetables between ferries and land public transport could really boost Island connectivity for people without cars.

Also, to avoid something like the ferries scandal, an arms length organisation overseeing all public transport in Scotland could be set up to prevent Scottish government meddling in public transport and therefore give local authorities (i.e. islanders) increased control over their ferry services to meet their needs.

Believe me, I completely agree with you. It should have happened years ago and particularly as you say in light of the scandal that has been the very situation. I only hope for the sake of the pr if nothing else of the Scottish ferry industry as well as reliability for islanders that the 4 Turkish vessels sail into service without problems
On the ticketing front it would be lovely to be able to simply have one website app and telesales platform where a journey all the way from a relevant hub such as an airport or even a border town or city on the rail, bus or coach network such as Carlisle or barrick could be booked to any Island destination including the relevant ship or airline legs and bus connections to and from ports, airports and other things. The passenger gets one QR coded ticket for the whole lot and that suffices for everything. It would then allow delay compensation and possible disruption insurance if you were willing to pay for it all. Integrated

 

[Indigo Soup]

Is there any timescale on Glen Rosa entering service?

Calmac, Scotrail and Northlink should really be integrated under one company in my opinion

Remember where the 'Caledonian' part of Caledonian MacBrayne comes from?

Given the strength of the brands, even if they were under one company they'd probably retain the trading names.

Well to all intents and purposes, the Northern isles service is simply another government contract, the fact that it has been privatised is of little consequence. If we're talking about integration with railways. It wouldn't be difficult to integrate but everybody seems happy to let it run under the existing arrangements

It's not really accurate to say that NIFS was 'privatised'. It's always been run by a subsidised private operator, except for the period 2002-2012 when Caledonian MacBrayne won the contract in two successive open tenders.

In a curious historical note, the North of Scotland, Orkney and Shetland Steam Navigation Company - which ran the route from 1875 to 1975 (when it was bought out by P&O) - built the world's first cruise ship, the ST SUNNIVA.

 

[Transilien]

Given the strength of the brands, even if they were under one company they'd probably retain the trading names.

Yes, definitely Calmac in particular despite its tarnished brand is a great one.

 

[route101]

According to the Caledonian MacBrayne website , it is operating between Troon and Brodick until 9 February and then from 18 February to 27 March 2025, inclusive.

Will need to plan a day out to Brodick coverig both ships.

 

[paul1609]

It was corrosion of steel plates below the waterline that involves removal of the engines, this was carried out in Birkenhead. On her way back to the Clyde it was discovered that some of her frames were buckled, that’s what is being repaired now. I suspect if the frame issue had been known before the corrosion repairs had been carried out she may well have been scrapped. There is however a school of thought that the frames were damaged during the other repairs, I’m sure the lawyers will be looking closely.
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Repairs of this type when main machinery is removed on a ship of this age often involving the cutting of the main frames to remove the engine and then basically rebuilding that part of the ship afterwards are known to be problematical and getting the correct alignment of the engines extremely difficult. As a consequence they are usually carried out on a best endeavours basis (at the owners risk). Id be surprised if there are lawyers involved. What often happens is that the frames have sagged and distorted over many years and the extent of this only becomes apparent when you try to weld the new bits in and then get the correct main machinery alignment on new flexible mountings.

 

[43055]

The Calmac service status page is reporting damage to Kennacraig and Port Ellen ports. Not surprising when looking at the webcams on the CMAL website yesterday which for the Kennacraig one is now offline.

 

[Albaman]

An intimation has appeared on the Caledonian MacBrayne website stating the Ardrossan to Campbeltown service will not operate this summer. The reason is that the only major vessel which can operate into Campbeltown Harbour ( " Isle of Arran " ) is required to provide life line services on other parts of the network.

 

[Gwr12345]

An intimation has appeared on the Caledonian MacBrayne website stating the Ardrossan to Campbeltown service will not operate this summer. The reason is that the only major vessel which can operate into Campbeltown Harbour ( " Isle of Arran " ) is required to provide life line services on other parts of the network.

At what point will they just cancel the route? It's 2 years in a row now!

 

[Russel]

Do we know what route the Isle of Arran will be doing this summer?

On that note, do we know what the second Cumbrae vessel will be this year?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I suspect they aren't cancelling the route as they have long-term future aspirations to run it again, but presumably once they've got a bit more stability within the fleet and they'll undertake some birthing trials with a couple of vessels other than the Isle of Aaron and resume