Beveridges
Established Member
On the trains you can take your foot off for 3 seconds until it applies.
How long does it take on the trams?
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Can train driver have 2nd driving job?
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How long does it take on the trams?
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notadriver
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I might be wrong but I believe on trams (and incidentally the tube) that releasing the handle gives an instant brake application.
On the trains, if there is no vigilance device fitted the drivers safety device must be fully depressed at all times. If there is a vigilance device then the pedal doesn't have to be fully depressed and if released briefly you get 6 to 7 seconds to depress the pedal before the brakes are applied. The Vigilance will also sound after 60 seconds if no controls are moved and the direction switch is in forward. I'm not sure if depot drivers will ever have to cancel a vigilance on the move due to the nature of their work.
On the trains, if there is no vigilance device fitted the drivers safety device must be fully depressed at all times. If there is a vigilance device then the pedal doesn't have to be fully depressed and if released briefly you get 6 to 7 seconds to depress the pedal before the brakes are applied. The Vigilance will also sound after 60 seconds if no controls are moved and the direction switch is in forward. I'm not sure if depot drivers will ever have to cancel a vigilance on the move due to the nature of their work.
Beveridges
Established Member
I've cancelled vigilance on the move more times than I care to remember. But certainly not an everyday thing. The job puts me in so many situations.
Vigilance goes off after 40 seconds on our units that have them fitted. 150/2's, 153s, 158s, 180s (previously).
Lots of units don't have it. 142s, 150/1s, 156s.
Whether they have vigilance or not, all my traction gives you an emergency brake application when you take the foot off the dsd for 3 seconds.
Instant emergency brake application on the trams sounds over the top.
I wouldn't like to drive those all day.
I'd be accidentally dropping the DSD all the time.
beavercreek
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You normally get about 4 seconds and a warning bell.
At 50mph you would have wheel flats and the passengers would be on the floor although I've never done this.
It's bad enough at 5mph coming of the depot over the beacon to test the ATS.
All good fun.
At 50mph you would have wheel flats and the passengers would be on the floor although I've never done this.
It's bad enough at 5mph coming of the depot over the beacon to test the ATS.
All good fun.
Beveridges
Established Member
On units without vigilance it is easy to drop the DSD by accident. E.g. 142 and 150/1.
No noise, no warning. Just the brakes come on in emergency and theres nothing you can do about it until you come to a stand.
Some DSD's on the old units need to be depressed harder than others as well.
Accidental emergency brake application on the move is easily done on 142 or 150/1. Done it more than a few times.
On Units with vigilance fitted you get plenty of audiable warning. Never done it on these.
No noise, no warning. Just the brakes come on in emergency and theres nothing you can do about it until you come to a stand.
Some DSD's on the old units need to be depressed harder than others as well.
Accidental emergency brake application on the move is easily done on 142 or 150/1. Done it more than a few times.
On Units with vigilance fitted you get plenty of audiable warning. Never done it on these.
Hi,
What is the correct definition of ATS on the tram network.
I can sort of guess, but can also come up with multiple guesses as well.
Cheers
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I think you're taking me the wrong way here. I don't mean to come across as negative in any way about applying for this driving job. I'm asking a straight forward question about whether 2nd jobs are allowed. If you were going to quit your current job to start a new job with an initial salary of thousands less than your current salary, would you not want to know about the possibility of doing a 2nd job?
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moggie
Member
The person who interviewed you made a point of saying the role was Safety Critical? Doesn't that strike a chord?
The whole point of defining a role as safety critical is so that the employer exercises proper management of working hours worked in any defined period and complies with appropriate shift rostering and minimum rest periods between shifts. All this is designed to ensure the employee has had ample opportunity to be rested so that they will be alert and fit for their next turn of duty and can therefore carry out their task safely. It is your responsibility to ensure you are fit when you turn up for work.
So while I understand your concers regarding your income, ultimately that is your choice. Your passengers will have no choice and place their trust in you to be fit enough to do your job safely. I think a suitable degree of profesionalism is called for here?
The whole point of defining a role as safety critical is so that the employer exercises proper management of working hours worked in any defined period and complies with appropriate shift rostering and minimum rest periods between shifts. All this is designed to ensure the employee has had ample opportunity to be rested so that they will be alert and fit for their next turn of duty and can therefore carry out their task safely. It is your responsibility to ensure you are fit when you turn up for work.
So while I understand your concers regarding your income, ultimately that is your choice. Your passengers will have no choice and place their trust in you to be fit enough to do your job safely. I think a suitable degree of profesionalism is called for here?
Fair enough Moggie, I understand your point entirely, but when my mate enquired with a different manager, they were fine about him having a second job. That's what I'm hoping to establish from the company and that will (for me, and I appreciate probably not for you) likely be the main deciding factor in me taking the job or otherwise.
I also get your point about being prepared for work, but do you not recognise that some people have a much greater capacity for work than others? I know my limits and would never put anyone at risk.
I also get your point about being prepared for work, but do you not recognise that some people have a much greater capacity for work than others? I know my limits and would never put anyone at risk.
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PeteH
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During the classroom phase there is little to stop you 'freelancing' in a part time role in whatever other job you may choose. Whilst there is a fair amount to learn it shouldn't require hours of revision every weekend. I know of a student on a course that volunteers for an unpaid role on the railways at the weekends, working shifts of over 12 hours.
HOWEVER, it will not do you any good at all to do this purely from the aspect of your own well-being. The body and mind NEED a couple of days a week to recover, you will NEED time for the information taught during the week to sink in and start making sense. A TOC may not be able to stop you working the odd weekend but it's not a sensible idea, particularly if that part time work is of a safety critical nature. Those rest days over the weekend will also give you the best chance of actually passing the 20+ assessments/exams that you will face in the first 5 months.
When, if your application is successful, you reach the handling phase you will be at the beck and call of whichever driver instructor you are put with, you will (potentially) be working long shifts and may not know too far in advance what you are doing one week to the next*.
*Although turns are normally published every 8 weeks there is nothing to say that you can't work under the instruction of other DIs from week to week.
If you don't think you can survive on trainee driver wages for the ~10 months or so it takes, then you probably shouldn't take the job.
HOWEVER, it will not do you any good at all to do this purely from the aspect of your own well-being. The body and mind NEED a couple of days a week to recover, you will NEED time for the information taught during the week to sink in and start making sense. A TOC may not be able to stop you working the odd weekend but it's not a sensible idea, particularly if that part time work is of a safety critical nature. Those rest days over the weekend will also give you the best chance of actually passing the 20+ assessments/exams that you will face in the first 5 months.
When, if your application is successful, you reach the handling phase you will be at the beck and call of whichever driver instructor you are put with, you will (potentially) be working long shifts and may not know too far in advance what you are doing one week to the next*.
*Although turns are normally published every 8 weeks there is nothing to say that you can't work under the instruction of other DIs from week to week.
If you don't think you can survive on trainee driver wages for the ~10 months or so it takes, then you probably shouldn't take the job.
notadriver
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He is applying for a tram driving position. The course is much shorter than for train driver. On the other hand tram driving possibly needs more concentration at times during on street running and shifts are longer and very repetitive.
Beveridges
Established Member
Shifts are very repetetive on the trains as well in some jobs. Up & down same line all day on same old knackered unit.
Monotony is no good for anyone.
As for shift length not all tram drivers do too bad on this. Metrolink operate to a 5-day week averaging 7 hrs per day. Don't know about the Tram Operating Company the OP is going for though.
Thank you for all your advice on this subject regardless of whether you were in support of my idea of continuing with a 2nd job or otherwise. To update you, having gained further information about the job from a friend who was further on in the recruitment process than me, and from someone who is already in the job, I have found out a lot of information about the terms and conditions and decided it wasn't for me. Disappointing, but must means there's something better waiting around the corner! 
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Hi all...
just my pennys worth for what its worth... I'm a bus driver (boo hiss) who is looking to try & enter the rail industry...
I have several friends who have made the transition from bus to rail. The majority are all guards (for various TOC's) who also drive buses on a part time basis... Now before you all start shouting the odds, let me say this, that as a holder of a PSV/PCV/bus licence YOU MUST BY LAW complete 35 hours of CPC training over a period of 5 years.
Many of my friends are also bus enthusiasts & have no desire to give up their entitlement to drive buses. As such, (as I understand it) they drive buses for a small local operator in exchange for the bus operator allowing them to complete their CPC training under his name/operators license.
I do know that they have sought permission & it has been granted albeit uneasily, the understanding is there that they must do this in order to keep their bus license.
Hope this helps...
Eric
just my pennys worth for what its worth... I'm a bus driver (boo hiss) who is looking to try & enter the rail industry...
I have several friends who have made the transition from bus to rail. The majority are all guards (for various TOC's) who also drive buses on a part time basis... Now before you all start shouting the odds, let me say this, that as a holder of a PSV/PCV/bus licence YOU MUST BY LAW complete 35 hours of CPC training over a period of 5 years.
Many of my friends are also bus enthusiasts & have no desire to give up their entitlement to drive buses. As such, (as I understand it) they drive buses for a small local operator in exchange for the bus operator allowing them to complete their CPC training under his name/operators license.
I do know that they have sought permission & it has been granted albeit uneasily, the understanding is there that they must do this in order to keep their bus license.
Hope this helps...
Eric
notadriver
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Hi Eric. I'm a bus driver too. Have any of your friends gone on drive trains?
No, they are all guards at the moment & seem quite happy about it... Who do you work for if you don't mind me asking??? PM me if you prefer...
Eric
Harlesden
Member
Fascinating. Please elaborate. Been riding London's buses for forty years now and have never experienced a route such as you describe.
(Sorry for the drift.)
notadriver
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Hi Eric. I can't PM you until you have a few more posts. But I wish you all the best of luck on the railway. I'm a coach driver casually (ex London bus driver). Do you mind me asking what TOC your friends went to ?
lol...
I'm in the same boat... I can't PM anyone till I have more posts... Hey... look whats happening as we type...!!!
In answer to your question, 1 is a guard at Merseyrail, 2 are Guards at ATW but one of them I believe has jumped ship to TPE... I also have a very good friend (who's son I am a godfather to) who is a driver at Merseyrail...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hang on...!!!
You have OVER 1000 posts & you can't PM anyone yet... HOW MANY DO YOU NEED!!!??? :roll:
Eric
I'm in the same boat... I can't PM anyone till I have more posts... Hey... look whats happening as we type...!!!
In answer to your question, 1 is a guard at Merseyrail, 2 are Guards at ATW but one of them I believe has jumped ship to TPE... I also have a very good friend (who's son I am a godfather to) who is a driver at Merseyrail...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hang on...!!!
You have OVER 1000 posts & you can't PM anyone yet... HOW MANY DO YOU NEED!!!??? :roll:
Eric
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notadriver
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No I mean I can't pm YOU specifically until you do a few more posts
driver at Merseyrail ? Poor soul lol 
90019
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TOCDriver
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I really don't see the need for a second job. The job is well paid and more than enough to live on. I can understand it being frowned upon, however, because the job does need 100% concentration 100% of the time and therefore any distraction outside those hours could be a real concern
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